[nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

Aleeha Dudley blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
Sun Dec 16 20:13:01 UTC 2012


I, too, believe we've just about beaten this topic to death, though i
do have something to say. To propose not allowing someone into your
house, chapter meeting, or anywhere else because they do not use a
travel aid is, quite frankly, a bit harsh. We, as a Federation, have
always called ourselves the Federation family. Ideally, a family is
caring and welcomes new members without fuss, no matter their
differences. I believe this new individual should be welcomed into the
Federation with open arms and minds. If we can help her to understand
the benefits of using a cane or dog and that these tools are not bad
things to have around, she may come to understand and make her own
decisions. When you say that she is a danger to herself, should not
your first goal be to help her get out of that danger? I believe that
excluding her will lead to further injury. Let's help her become a
strong, independent blind person if we can. Tell her the story of your
friend who also has seizures. Tell her success stories and show how
much a cane or a dog makes a difference. Then go from there. This
person should not be excluded just because she is not choosing to use
a travel aid. For all we know, she could have come to us for help and
has just not asked for it yet because she may not yet feel
comfortable. Sometimes we forget as Federationists that taking a step
to become "committed" to one organization or another can be quite
intimidating.
JMO,
Aleeha

On 12/16/12, Mike Edwards <mike at ultraemail.us> wrote:
> Ray Charles prided himself on not using a cane, "No cane, no dog, no
> guitar", but, those were different times.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>
>
> Content preview:  Perter, that's a difficult one! I get around with and
> with
>     out canes and dogs but routinely use both. I would say that showing by
> example
>     is best but sounds like this person just doesn't get it! I wonder if
> they
>     couldn't be hooked up with a good mobility instructor. Maybe just at
> first
>     as a person your chapter brings in. For example, ant Ann Arbor chapter
> brings
>     in a mobility instructor who teaches cane technique to everyone! He
> also
>    teaches cane manners such as how to put your cane under the table or how
>
> not
>     to put it between peoples legs. This might give your person an
> opportunity
>     to try using a cane and not be singled out for what he doesn't know. Of
>
> course,
>     his real issue is he is probably to embarrassed to use a cane! But,
> they
>    should be more embarrassed about how unsafe they are being! -----
> Original
>     Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> To: "Blind
> Talk
>     Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> Cc: "Daniel Carr"
> <danlcarr at www.carrtronics.com>;
>     <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:06 PM Subject:
> Re:
>     [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane [...]
>
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>
> Perter, that's a difficult one!  I get around with and with out canes and
> dogs but routinely use both.  I would say that showing by example is best
> but sounds like this person just doesn't get it!  I wonder if they couldn't
> be hooked up with a good mobility instructor.  Maybe just at first as a
> person your chapter brings in.  For example, ant Ann Arbor chapter brings
> in
> a mobility instructor who teaches cane technique to everyone!  He also
> teaches cane manners such as how to put your cane under the table or how
> not
> to put it between peoples legs.  This might give your person an opportunity
> to try using a cane and not be singled out for what he doesn't know.  Of
> course, his real issue is he is probably to embarrassed to use a cane!
> But,
> they should be more embarrassed about how unsafe they are being!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Daniel Carr" <danlcarr at www.carrtronics.com>; <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>
>
> Hello Cheryl and everyone,
>
>     While we don't want to push people away if folks are falling and
> getting
> hurt there should come a time to draw a line in the sand and demand that
> these folks use travel aids and offer to help them improve their techniques
> or get VR services or apply for a guide dog to assist them with this
> endeavor. The question we're really asking is if such individuals refuse to
> learn blindness travel skills, are constantly hurting themselves and posing
> a safety threat to themselves and others, and have repeatedly been offered
> assistance and continue to refuse it when do we draw the line with such
> persons and demand that they improve their travel skills or face
> consequences if they continue to refuse to do so? When is it time for the
> day of reckoning? My own feelings are that if the individual in question
> does not pose a threat to themselves or others in a particular environment
> they can get around by whatever travel method they feel works best for
> them.
> This particular person uses neither echolocation, a cane, a dog, or a human
> guide. It's this choice that has prompted chapter members  to ask this
> question. Thanks for the feedback.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>
>
>
> I was recently talking with my good friend and President of our Westchester
> Chapter here in NY, he is witnessing more and more blind people not using
> there canes and getting hurt, also I recently spoke to a high school
> student
> here on Long Island, who we were trying to help her get services in her
> district, since they just moved to a town over from me.
> She has a cane but doesn't use it.
> She has some sight, I asked her can you tell when there is a whole in the
> street, or like me when I started losing my vision, if the rug on the floor
> was the same as the stairs, could she tell when the stairs started or
> ended,
> I couldn't wow, that was a learning lesson for me.
> She said no, her mother said that the other kids in her other school stayed
> away from each other.
> But adults please, I know it is depressing, at times I don't get out of
> bed,
> and for those of you who know my wonderful husband, Nelson, wont stand for
> it.
> Instead of picking on people or pointing them out, keep encouraging them,
> don't push, you will push them away.
> Cheryl
>
> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.Echevarria Travel
> and
> proud member of the National Federation of the Blind will be holding a year
> round fundraiser for the http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and
> other resources. Any vacation package booked between November 6
> 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than
> 12/30/2014
> a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.  Also is you book a
> Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and friends resorts vacation,
> $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate as well.  You do not need to
> be
> a member of the NFB.org, just book through us.
>
>
>> From: rforetjr at att.net
>> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 07:04:57 -0600
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>
>> Some points of observation.
>>
>> 1.  Perhaps this individual is not willing even to acknowledge their
>> blindness?
>>
>> 2.  Does this individual even acknowledge that there are other blind
>> people who have seasures and the like and still use canes and or dogs?
>>
>> 3.  Does this individual have any blindness skills at all?
>>
>> 4.  Is this individual as hard headed about other aspects of his life?
>>
>> 5.  Would it be correct to assume that y'all have tried to physically
>> demonstrate the usefulness of the cane?
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 6:52 AM, "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Good morning everyone,
>> >
>> >    An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San
>> > Antonio
>> > and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and
>> > absolutely
>> > refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party
>> > and
>> > had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this
>> > event.
>> > Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up
>> > without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began
>> > giving
>> > us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past
>> > O&M
>> > instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this
>> > person's
>> > having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number
>> > of
>> > other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at
>> > Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also
>> > has
>> > seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the
>> > confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know
>> > well.
>> > The
>> > individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane
>> > users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea
>> > and
>> > use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation.
>> >
>> >    The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by
>> > several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she
>> > must
>> > bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our
>> > residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit.
>> >
>> >    When attempting to reason with the person in question members have
>> > been
>> > accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why
>> > he/she
>> > cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that
>> > neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a
>> > travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is
>> > over
>> > whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness
>> > professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This
>> > individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them
>> > short
>> > on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using
>> > a
>> > cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any
>> > of
>> > our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send
>> > them
>> > home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to
>> > reason
>> > and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last
>> > thing
>> > we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we
>> > know
>> > that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and
>> > as
>> > negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply
>> > in
>> > this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help
>> > us
>> > wit this one.
>> >
>> >    We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence
>> > and
>> > be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from
>> > joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they
>> > would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them
>> > regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions.
>> >
>> >
>> > Peter Donahue
>> >
>> > “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.”
>> > Isaiah 54:17
>> >
>> > “While for our princes they prepare
>> > In caverns deep a burning snare,
>> > He shot from heaven a piercing ray,
>> > And the dark treachery brought to day.”
>> > Anonymous
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>
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>
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