[nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Mon Dec 17 01:29:34 UTC 2012


Mike, I do know some chapter presidents who believe exactly that!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane


> I'm with Buddy here.  However, Buddy, you know better than to believe that
> the organization philosophy says one must use a cane.  A "real
> Federationist" is one who lives the philosophy of blindness that Jacobus
> tenBroek and a small group of blind people used to form the NFB in 1940.
> That philosophy did not judge anyone on the basis of cane or dog use.
> Rather that philosophy welcomed all.  It taught us that as blind people we
> needed to be all that we could be, (the Army notwithstanding), and it
> provided the basic precepts which we use today to help the world change 
> its
> collective view of what it means to be blind.
>
> True, people have deviated from the basic tenants in various ways like
> saying "a real
> Federationist uses a cane", but cane use isn't the real issue.  Instead
> traveling, living, and true equality for all including blind people are 
> what
> the philosophy promotes.  Don Capps, Dr. Jernigan, Dr. Maurer, Dr. 
> tenBroek,
> and many of us used and use sighted guides from time to time.  Sometimes 
> we
> use a sighted guide and some other travel aid at the same time to get 
> around
> since many of us have learned the hard way that sighted guides aren't 
> always
> what they are cracked up to be.  No matter how we travel are some of us 
> more
> "Federationists" than others?  I think not, at least cane use is not a
> factor.
>
> Real Federationists encourage ALL blind people to get out and live.  Real
> Federationists help each other to be better people.  Real Federationists 
> not
> only encourage travel aid choices, but they help each other use whatever
> travel skills they have and encourage all of us to grow and travel better.
>
> Sure, for a wide variety of reasons the white cane is the most basic 
> travel
> tool we use, but it is not the only game in town.  As an organization we
> have learned that cane use is invaluable to every blind person, but it 
> does
> not stop there.  If you think "real Federationists" must use a cane then 
> you
> are not "real" at all.
>
> As an organization we have had some pr misconceptions about guide dog use.
> It took time for the organization to recognize this, but the NFB is fully
> supportive of guide dog use.  The three NFB centers now have provisions 
> for
> welcoming guide dog users into their programs.
>
> If we go down this road of "to use or not use canes" when will it end?
> Shouldn't "real Federationists" only use the straight non-folding "NFB
> canes"?  Aren't folding canes bad since they do not provide all the same
> information as the straight flexible cane?
>
> Of course, the answer is no.  Cane choice is an individual one just as is
> whether or not to use or not use a guide dog.  In fact, the choice to use 
> no
> travel aid is also an individual one although most of us know it is not a
> wise choice.  However, that choice does not determine whether or not 
> someone
> is a Federationist.  I hope that Joshua didn't really mean that only cane
> users are "real Federationists", but that will be for him to clarify.
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy
> Brannan
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 12:42 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>
> Hold up.
>
> A "real Federationist" uses a cane?
>
> Excuse me?
>
> Has our organization become as judgmental and unwelcoming as our critics
> would have it?
>
> If so, I'm out as of now.
>
> The Federation I know, or thought I knew, welcomed all blind people,
> regardless of ability or regardless of where they are in their adjustment 
> to
> blindness. The NFB I know, or thought I knew, didn't castigate its members
> for not being "superblinks", or, at the very least, living up to some 
> ideal
> or other. The NFB I know, or thought I knew, helped blind folks progress 
> in
> their philosophy of blindness and attitudes towards it, leading by example
> and not by clubbing people over their virtual heads.
>
> Sure, your house, your rules; if you don't want to allow someone in your
> home without a cane, it's your right. It's your home, after all. It isn't
> terribly welcoming or nurturing, though. Whether this member's limitations
> are real or imagined, they're real to her.
>
> There's a huge difference between good-natured ribbing and browbeating
> though.
>
> BTW, what if I use a guide dog most of the time? Am I only "real" part of
> the time?
>
> I believe folks like Mr. Capps use a human guide most of the time, if not
> all of the time, and have for decades. Would you say that Mr. Capps is not 
> a
> "real" Federationist? I'd defy you to find someone who's done more for the
> NFB in particular and blind folks in general than Don Capps.
>
> So, am I resigning, thus cutting our chapter membership by significant, or
> was I correct about our movement, meaning I can stay?
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Dec 16, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Joshua Lester
> <JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Aleeha!
>> Great post as always, and it's good to see you back on the lists!
>> I use a cane all of the time when I travel.
>> While at the communities of faith service one day at convention, I was
>> in a hurry and my NFB folding cane wasn't unfolding propperly, so I had 
>> to
> go up without it, to accompany a singer, (I'm a pianist.) When I got back,
> word got to the lady that was running the service, that I had left my cane
> at my seat.
>> She, assuming that I didn't use the cane all of the time, blurted out 
>> that
> a real federationist uses a cane!
>> I agree that a real federationist uses a cane, but when the folding cane
> doesn't cooperate, and you leave the other one in the hotel room, it's
> difficult!
>> We should all be careful of what we say and how we say it, because if I
> was someone from the outside looking in, I would've probably left this
> organization over it!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Aleeha
>> Dudley [blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:13 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>
>> I, too, believe we've just about beaten this topic to death, though i
>> do have something to say. To propose not allowing someone into your
>> house, chapter meeting, or anywhere else because they do not use a
>> travel aid is, quite frankly, a bit harsh. We, as a Federation, have
>> always called ourselves the Federation family. Ideally, a family is
>> caring and welcomes new members without fuss, no matter their
>> differences. I believe this new individual should be welcomed into the
>> Federation with open arms and minds. If we can help her to understand
>> the benefits of using a cane or dog and that these tools are not bad
>> things to have around, she may come to understand and make her own
>> decisions. When you say that she is a danger to herself, should not
>> your first goal be to help her get out of that danger? I believe that
>> excluding her will lead to further injury. Let's help her become a
>> strong, independent blind person if we can. Tell her the story of your
>> friend who also has seizures. Tell her success stories and show how
>> much a cane or a dog makes a difference. Then go from there. This
>> person should not be excluded just because she is not choosing to use
>> a travel aid. For all we know, she could have come to us for help and
>> has just not asked for it yet because she may not yet feel
>> comfortable. Sometimes we forget as Federationists that taking a step
>> to become "committed" to one organization or another can be quite
>> intimidating.
>> JMO,
>> Aleeha
>>
>> On 12/16/12, Mike Edwards <mike at ultraemail.us> wrote:
>>> Ray Charles prided himself on not using a cane, "No cane, no dog, no
>>> guitar", but, those were different times.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:32 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>>
>>>
>>> Content preview:  Perter, that's a difficult one! I get around with
>>> and with
>>>    out canes and dogs but routinely use both. I would say that
>>> showing by example
>>>    is best but sounds like this person just doesn't get it! I wonder
>>> if they
>>>    couldn't be hooked up with a good mobility instructor. Maybe just
>>> at first
>>>    as a person your chapter brings in. For example, ant Ann Arbor
>>> chapter brings
>>>    in a mobility instructor who teaches cane technique to everyone!
>>> He also
>>>   teaches cane manners such as how to put your cane under the table
>>> or how
>>>
>>> not
>>>    to put it between peoples legs. This might give your person an
>>> opportunity
>>>    to try using a cane and not be singled out for what he doesn't
>>> know. Of
>>>
>>> course,
>>>    his real issue is he is probably to embarrassed to use a cane!
>>> But, they
>>>   should be more embarrassed about how unsafe they are being! ----- 
>>> Original
>>>    Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> To:
>>> "Blind Talk
>>>    Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> Cc: "Daniel Carr"
>>> <danlcarr at www.carrtronics.com>;
>>>    <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:06 PM 
>>> Subject:
>>> Re:
>>>    [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane [...]
>>>
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>>>  0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM          Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail
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>>> necessarily valid
>>> X-Spam-Flag: NO
>>> X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 9.0.930 [2634.1.1/5464]
>>>
>>> Perter, that's a difficult one!  I get around with and with out canes
>>> and dogs but routinely use both.  I would say that showing by example
>>> is best but sounds like this person just doesn't get it!  I wonder if
>>> they couldn't be hooked up with a good mobility instructor.  Maybe
>>> just at first as a person your chapter brings in.  For example, ant
>>> Ann Arbor chapter brings in a mobility instructor who teaches cane
>>> technique to everyone!  He also teaches cane manners such as how to
>>> put your cane under the table or how not to put it between peoples
>>> legs.  This might give your person an opportunity to try using a cane
>>> and not be singled out for what he doesn't know.  Of course, his real
>>> issue is he is probably to embarrassed to use a cane!
>>> But,
>>> they should be more embarrassed about how unsafe they are being!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "Daniel Carr" <danlcarr at www.carrtronics.com>;
>>> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello Cheryl and everyone,
>>>
>>>    While we don't want to push people away if folks are falling and
>>> getting hurt there should come a time to draw a line in the sand and
>>> demand that these folks use travel aids and offer to help them
>>> improve their techniques or get VR services or apply for a guide dog
>>> to assist them with this endeavor. The question we're really asking
>>> is if such individuals refuse to learn blindness travel skills, are
>>> constantly hurting themselves and posing a safety threat to
>>> themselves and others, and have repeatedly been offered assistance
>>> and continue to refuse it when do we draw the line with such persons
>>> and demand that they improve their travel skills or face consequences
>>> if they continue to refuse to do so? When is it time for the day of
>>> reckoning? My own feelings are that if the individual in question
>>> does not pose a threat to themselves or others in a particular
>>> environment they can get around by whatever travel method they feel
>>> works best for them.
>>> This particular person uses neither echolocation, a cane, a dog, or a
>>> human guide. It's this choice that has prompted chapter members  to
>>> ask this question. Thanks for the feedback.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:30 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was recently talking with my good friend and President of our
>>> Westchester Chapter here in NY, he is witnessing more and more blind
>>> people not using there canes and getting hurt, also I recently spoke
>>> to a high school student here on Long Island, who we were trying to
>>> help her get services in her district, since they just moved to a
>>> town over from me.
>>> She has a cane but doesn't use it.
>>> She has some sight, I asked her can you tell when there is a whole in
>>> the street, or like me when I started losing my vision, if the rug on
>>> the floor was the same as the stairs, could she tell when the stairs
>>> started or ended, I couldn't wow, that was a learning lesson for me.
>>> She said no, her mother said that the other kids in her other school
>>> stayed away from each other.
>>> But adults please, I know it is depressing, at times I don't get out
>>> of bed, and for those of you who know my wonderful husband, Nelson,
>>> wont stand for it.
>>> Instead of picking on people or pointing them out, keep encouraging
>>> them, don't push, you will push them away.
>>> Cheryl
>>>
>>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State Leading the Way in
>>> Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel Advocate!Cheryl
>>> Echevarria,
>>> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarr
>>> iatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.Echevarria
>>> Travel and proud member of the National Federation of the Blind will
>>> be holding a year round fundraiser for the http://www.NFBNY.org after
>>> Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any vacation package booked
>>> between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be
>>> traveled no later than
>>> 12/30/2014
>>> a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.  Also is you
>>> book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and friends
>>> resorts vacation,
>>> $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate as well.  You do not
>>> need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book through us.
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: rforetjr at att.net
>>>> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 07:04:57 -0600
>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>>>
>>>> Some points of observation.
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Perhaps this individual is not willing even to acknowledge their
>>>> blindness?
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Does this individual even acknowledge that there are other blind
>>>> people who have seasures and the like and still use canes and or dogs?
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Does this individual have any blindness skills at all?
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Is this individual as hard headed about other aspects of his life?
>>>>
>>>> 5.  Would it be correct to assume that y'all have tried to
>>>> physically demonstrate the usefulness of the cane?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>>> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 6:52 AM, "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>   An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San
>>>>> Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally
>>>>> blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up
>>>>> at our Christmas party and had to be helped in to and out of the
>>>>> meeting room we used for this event.
>>>>> Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed
>>>>> up without their cane. When later questioned about this the person
>>>>> began giving us all manner of excuse. They told us that their
>>>>> neurologist and past O&M instructors recommended against the use of
>>>>> the cane due to this person's having seizures. This individual
>>>>> attended Perkins along with a number of other schools for the
>>>>> blind. I know for a fact that at least while at Perkins this
>>>>> individual lived in a cottage with another person who also has
>>>>> seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person,
>>>>> the confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to
>>>>> know well.
>>>>> The
>>>>> individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind
>>>>> cane users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and
>>>>> sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog depending on the
>>>>> situation.
>>>>>
>>>>>   The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told
>>>>> by several members in the area that if they wish to visit them
>>>>> the/she must bring their cane and use it to get from their
>>>>> transportation in to our residence and if necessary use the cane
>>>>> during their visit.
>>>>>
>>>>>   When attempting to reason with the person in question members
>>>>> have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in
>>>>> the book why he/she cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual
>>>>> has been told that neurologists are not qualified to determine
>>>>> whether or not the use of a travel aid can effect one's seizures.
>>>>> The evidence to the contrary is over whelmingly against this
>>>>> horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness professionals have
>>>>> true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This individual
>>>>> obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them short
>>>>> on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of
>>>>> using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they
>>>>> show up at any of our homes without their cane we will call them a
>>>>> cab and promptly send them home at their expense something they can
>>>>> avoid simply by listening to reason and using their cane whenever
>>>>> traveling. We're busy people. The last thing we need to have to do
>>>>> is take someone to the emergency room when we know that an
>>>>> individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as
>>>>> negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may
>>>>> apply in this situation where public venues are concerned. The
>>>>> lawyers can help us wit this one.
>>>>>
>>>>>   We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of
>>>>> independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we won't
>>>>> prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more effective
>>>>> contributor to the cause if they would embrace the alternative
>>>>> techniques of blindness and use them regularly. Thanks for your
>>>>> help and suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>
>>>>> "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper."
>>>>> Isaiah 54:17
>>>>>
>>>>> "While for our princes they prepare In caverns deep a burning
>>>>> snare, He shot from heaven a piercing ray, And the dark treachery
>>>>> brought to day."
>>>>> Anonymous
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40at
>>>>> t.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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