[nfb-talk] My reasons for reconsideration of joining the NFB, please read.

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Mon Jul 16 04:06:24 UTC 2012 

Laura:

I am not truly qualified to answer your questions about NFB "training you to
reach out for food" in that I have not been to any of our three centers.
However, let me take a stab at it.

Do you remember in "the Nature of Independence" where Dr. Jernigan said that
at times it was acceptable to take a cab, get a ride, take the bus or
whatever it took to get where one was going but that what was *not*
acceptable was staying home because one didn't believe one could get
someplace and convincing oneself that one didn't really want to go anyway?

In like manner, if one comes to a cafeteria and is offered help, it's no sin
and often a good thing to accept it. And if no one is there to help, it may
be acceptable at times to dish up one's own food, assuming that everyone
does this and one has an idea of what one is dishing up. What is *not*
acceptable is to go hungry because one can't figure out how to get the food.

In practice, in a cafeteria line, one holds up one's tray or plate and the
food is put on it -- for both blind and sighted. Or one is handed a plate
that is put on one's own tray. And in a buffet, one generally asks what is
on it and one *then* dishes up what one wants or someone helps you to get
what you want. What is generally discouraged is sitting at a table and
expecting a sighted person to go get your food and bring it to you. After
all, you can carry a tray with stuff on it about as well as the sighted
person can. And in programs such as that which Fred Schroeder ran at the
Albuquerque schools, the blind kids were taught to carry their trays just
like everyone else. I did this in college also.

Sounds like your accusatory friend was feeling guilty for lack of blindness
skills and it was far easier to cast aspersions upon NFB for advocating use
of patently impossible skills rather than to confront one's own lack of
skills.

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of qubit
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:21 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] My reasons for reconsideration of joining the NFB,
please read.

On another note, a radio station could provide a place for blind persons in 
various fields to get experience in broadcasting.  Not everything the acb 
does is a waste of money.  Now that having been said, When I was in the 
hospital a few months ago I befriended a blind woman who was there at the 
same time and we had many visits.  One day she had another blind friend 
visiting her when I stopped by her room.  The 3 of us started talking.  I 
asked if either of them was in an organization like the nfb or acb, and if 
so, which.  They were both avid acb members.  I am a long standing nfb 
person, and said something about the mild feuding between the 2 
organizations.  That was the wrong thing to say.  They proceeded to pitch 
insults and take pot shots at the nfb, including every claim of what the nfb

was guilty of, whether true or not, and I could hardly get a word in 
edgewise.  The conversation got so heated that I finally gave up even trying

to correct them or discuss any issue.  It was apparent they didn't want to 
talk to me.  As I started to move toward the door they settled down and get 
friendly again, saying "but we don't want to argue".  I was so annoyed I 
started to correct some comment or other, but then concluded it was no use. 
I chose to remove myself from the situation quietly so they wouldn't know 
whether I had left or not.  (I hate when people do that.  I hoped they also 
got the message that I was offended, once they discovered I was gone.)
What's worse is that she went home a week later and never once came to my 
room to apologize or say goodbye.  Well, her loss...

One question I have to all you federationists:   They insisted that the nfb 
trained blind persons to reach out for food in the cafeteria, whether they 
could see or not.    I said that I didn't think that was true, although I 
sometimes I grabbed food in the dorm cafeteria in college -- if I accidently

stuck my fingers in sometime I didn't want, I would take it and pay for it 
anyway, and that worked out fine.
So is it true that the nfb trains newly blind persons to go through life 
like a bull dozer and expect the sightlings to pick up the slack?

Well enough of that.
Sorry for the flame.  I just felt like getting it off my chest.
73
--le






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] My reasons for reconsideration of joining the 
NFB,please read.


You do have a point.

After my agreement, I did think about how the funds were going to be raised.

I like it the way it is now.

Thanks Ray for bringing that to me.

Gloria Whipple


-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 14:44
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] My reasons for reconsideration of joining the NFB,
please read.

And, with what money would you fund this radio station and take away help
from those blind people who need our help?  With what money would you hire
the staff, blind or sighted?

Point is this.  Just think how much money is being exausted by the other
folks with their fancy station.  To what better use might that money be put?


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

On Jul 15, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:

> Why can't the NFB take "Through Our Eyes," and turn it into KNFB Radio?
> The NFB needs its own radio station!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 7/15/12, Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:
>> Not to mention which, the ACB complained when we set up our NFB Newsline
>> service.  Jallous maybe because we were the ones who did it.
>>
>> I might point out that we stream our national conventions now; and,  the
>> stream actually works.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Jul 15, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Roger devin Prater wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I've also thought about joining the NFB, because they actually
>>> provide services like the NFB newsline and things like that, and I don't
>>> really know of any that the ACB provides besides their ACB radio thing.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester"
>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] My reasons for reconsideration of joining the
NFB,
>>> please read.
>>>
>>>
>>> Glad to hear this!
>>> Welcome to the NFB!
>>> Another convert here!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 7/15/12, Michael Capelle <michael.capelle at charter.net> wrote:
>>>> Hello.
>>>> This is going to be a long post, and a lot of heads will turn, I'm
sure.
>>>> For many years, a lot of people will know, that I was heavilly involved
>>>> in the American Council of the Blind, (ACB). Well, this years
convention
>>>> definitely decided for me, read on, and you will find out why. Now,
>>>> before I continue, I want everyone to remember, that I'm not trying to
>>>> bash ACB, just speaking my opinion. First of all, the biggest complaint
>>>> I had, was I felt the conference/convention was very disorganized. The
>>>> roll call of states, seemed very disorganized, and honestly, the "fat"
>>>> jokes were getting very old. Then, on monday, the door prize people
were
>>>> not even ready, to hand out door prizes. I just felt it was not good as
>>>> in previous years. Now, on to the biggest complaint. as some of you
>>>> know, we are in the process of passing a bill, for the subminimum
wages.
>>>> Basically, making it illegal to pay blind persons less money then their
>>>> sighted colleagues. The following information, below, is taken from the
>>>> publication. The NFB, (national Federation of the Blind) definitely
>>>> supports this, and so do I, again, see below.
>>>> Voice of the Nation's Blind
>>>> National Federation of the Blind Logo
>>>> Marc Maurer, President
>>>> 200 East Wells Street
>>>> at Jernigan Place
>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230
>>>> Phone 410 659 9314 Fax 410 685 5653
>>>> www.nfb.org
>>>> The Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act of 2011
>>>> H.R. 3086
>>>> Disabled workers have been unfairly excluded from the federal minimum
>>>> wage for 74 years, and today over 300,000 disabled workers are working
>>>> for subminimum wages.
>>>> Section 14(c) of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) discriminates
>>>> against people with disabilities. This section allows the Secretary of
>>>> Labor to grant special wage certificates to employers, permitting them
>>>> to pay their workers with disabilities less than the minimum wage,
often
>>>> in sheltered work environments. In some instances disabled workers are
>>>> being paid pennies per hour.
>>>> This discrimination is rooted in low expectations based on
>>>> misconceptions about the capabilities of disabled people. The law
>>>> falsely implies that people with disabilities cannot be productive
>>>> employees, and subminimum wage employers prey on society's
misconception
>>>> that disabled people are incapable of being competitively employed. In
>>>> reality, when provided the proper rehabilitation training and tools,
>>>> workers with disabilities can be productive and financially
independent.
>>>> Subminimum wage supports an outdated business model that fosters the
>>>> underemployment of workers with disabilities. Section 14(c) was only to
>>>> be used "to the extent necessary to prevent curtailment of
>>>> opportunities" for employment of people with disabilities. Instead,
>>>> subminimum-wage sheltered workshops have eroded into day custody
>>>> centers, limiting opportunities for workers with disabilities ever to
>>>> transition into integrated, competitive work. These institutions
instill
>>>> a philosophy of incapacity, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy
>>>> resulting in long-term underemployment.
>>>> The sheltered work system is a cash cow for the subminimum wage
>>>> employer. Many employers insist that paying the minimum wage to
disabled
>>>> employees would result in lack of profitability and a reduction in
their
>>>> workforce, but most benefit from philanthropic donations, preferred
>>>> status when bidding on federal contracts, and federal funding.
Moreover,
>>>> while their disabled workers receive subminimum wages that are
>>>> subsidized by Social Security and public assistance, some workshop
>>>> executives are earning salaries far above industry norms. The economics
>>>> overwhelmingly favor subminimum wage employers, encouraging the
>>>> perpetuation of subminimum wage employment and leaving workers with
>>>> disabilities little to no choice for real employment.
>>>> The Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act of 2011:
>>>> Discontinues the practice of issuing special wage certificates. The
>>>> secretary of labor will no longer issue special wage certificates to
new
>>>> applicants.
>>>> Phases out all remaining special wage certificates over a 3-year
period.
>>>> Entities currently holding special wage certificates will begin
>>>> compensating their workers with disabilities at no less than the
federal
>>>> minimum wage, using the following schedule:
>>>> .
>>>> private for-profit entities' certificates will be revoked after 1 year;
>>>> .
>>>> public or governmental entities' certificates will be revoked after 2
>>>> years; and
>>>> .
>>>> non-profit entities' certificates will be revoked after 3 years.
>>>> Repeals Section14(c) of the FLSA. Three years after the law is enacted,
>>>> the practice of paying disabled workers subminimum wage will be
>>>> officially abolished, and workers with disabilities will no longer be
>>>> excluded from the workforce protection of a federal minimum wage.
>>>> STOP THE DISCRIMINATION
>>>> PROMOTE EQUAL WORK FOR EQUAL PAY
>>>> Cosponsor the Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act
>>>> H.R. 3086
>>>> For more information contact:
>>>> Anil Lewis, Director of Strategic Communications
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> Phone: (410) 659-9314, Extension 2374 E-mail: alewis at nfb.org
>>>> To cosponsor the bill, contact:
>>>> James Thomas in Congressman Cliff Stearns's office
>>>> Phone: (202) 225-5744 E-mail: james.thomas at mail.house.gov
>>>> -OR-
>>>> Tim Powers in Congressman Tim Bishop's office
>>>> Phone: (202) 225-3826 E-mail: tim.powers at mail.house.gov
>>>> Voice of the Nation's Blind
>>>> Now, when this was taken up at the ACB's convention, there was a "do
not
>>>> pass" recommendation. It went through. This made me very upset, and
>>>> proves, that in my opinion, ACB does not care about the future of the
>>>> BLIND. Therefore, I've decided to give the NFB another try, once I can
>>>> afford to, I will pay my dues, to join NFB.
>>>> Thanks for reading.
>>>> Mike.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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