[nfb-talk] respect was RE: guide bots

Mon Jun 3 19:06:50 UTC 2013

I did not mean it in a nasty way.  He can say, I would rather follow you.  I try to be nice to people, even if they are persistent.  We want to show that we can be indepent.  People, at work, some times, commend me for taking on new adventures.  At my new building, I went on my own to find the new eating places, on our property.  I followed the yellow brick road and asked questions and got there. Be patientwith older folks.

Terry Powers

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Jacobson [mailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 11:51 AM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] respect was RE: guide bots

One thing to keep in mind when dealing with these situations is that one is rarely only dealing with the individual causing the frustration.  Whether we like it or not, we are representing all blind people to all people who happen to be observing.  Not everyone in the barbershop will know that there has been a history of the barber not listening to you.  Therefore, one cannot always just brand someone as "stupid" and treat him or her as such.  

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Mon, 3 Jun 2013 13:40:10 +0000, Powers, Terry (NIH/NCI) [E] wrote:

> Next time, tell him, if you want my business, then let me follow you.  I know how to get around.  I got to your shop, didn't I?  
>See how he responds.  Maybe he will change if he wants your business.
>I h
>Ave been very lucky, in this area.  Usually, I will just say, I will follow you. 
> Terry Powers

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joshua Lester [mailto:JLester8462 at pccua.edu]
>Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 6:21 PM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: [nfb-talk] respect was RE: guide bots

>You guys sound like Democrats!
>Give everything unconditionally!
>Respect is to be earned!
>If you want respect, you must give it!
>We shouldn't give those people respect, if they don't respect us in return!
>It's a two-way street!
>I just got a haircut today, and my barber, who has known me since I was 
>a baby, still insists that I put my hand on his shoulder,
instead of just letting me use my cane to get into the barbershop!
>He doesn't understand, although I've told him 100 times, that I could just use my cane and follow him!
>BTW, putting my hand on his shoulder isn't propper "sighted guide," and I've told him that, time and time again, to no avail!
>Like Chris said, I've thrown up my hands, and given up on him!
>Blessings, Joshua
>________________________________________
>From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Anjelina 
>[anjelinac26 at gmail.com]
>Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 5:09 PM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots

>Wow! That's quite harsh to call a group of people stupid. Even if they don't understand what you think they should.

>Sent from Anjelina's iPhone

>On May 31, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:

>> That's the term I use for the stupid ones that no matter how many times you correct them, they just don't get it!
>> Good grief!
>> There is a difference between ignorant, and stupid.
>> The ignorant ones actually want to know, but the stupid ones just don't care.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sheila 
>> Leigland [sleigland at bresnan.net]
>> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 2:11 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> hi I agree completely on this one. Part of showing respect is not 
>> using terms that can e insulting to others.
>> On 5/31/2013 12:18 PM, Eddie Salcido wrote:
>>> I know this message is late, but I'd like to address something that 
>>> Joshua said.  He called sighted people sighties.  How is that 
>>> different from people calling us blinks or blindies?  How can we 
>>> expect to have a mature dialogue with people when we use such terms?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:02 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> Brian!
>>> It's not that I have all kinds of problems, but it's that the 
>>> ignorance is getting old!
>>> We need to do more as blind individuals to educate the sighties 
>>> about us, so we don't have to deal with the ignorance for much longer.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bryan 
>>> Schulz [b.schulz at sbcglobal.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:58 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> if that gets you torqed, you've got more problems than that!
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <JLester8462 at pccua.edu>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:45 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Mrs. Gloria!
>>>> I get so tired of ignorant ideots calling my cane a "stick!"
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria 
>>>> Whipple [glowhi at centurylink.net]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:35 PM
>>>> To: 'Misty Dawn Bradley'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>
>>>> Hi Misty,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you on the GPS.
>>>>
>>>> I have had people tell me to leave my stick if I am going sighted 
>>>> guide with them. I tell them that my so called stick is part of me.
>>>> I don't leave home without it.
>>>>
>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:42
>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>
>>>> I am the same way. I have been using my cane since I was in 
>>>> kindergarten or first grade, which is about 20 years ago, so I 
>>>> don't feel right when I don't
>>>>
>>>> have my cane with me. I also like the challenge of figuring out 
>>>> things on my
>>>>
>>>> own, although it is nice to have a GPS sometimes, but it is not a 
>>>> necessity.
>>>> Misty
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:33 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I am not sure about this. I am so use to using my cane and like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:28
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>> To me, the idea of a device that is responsible for guiding, even 
>>>>> if made simpler as described here, adds so much complexity and 
>>>>> size that really has limited advantage to my way of thinking.  A 
>>>>> small device that could be mounted on a cane or connected to a 
>>>>> dog's leash to detect objects and provide feedback would provide 
>>>>> most of what a guiding device would without the size and other 
>>>>> complicating issues.  Why does it have to aim itself at all if the 
>>>>> blind person were to receive enough information to do the aiming 
>>>>> from a smaller travel aid?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:24:59 -0400, Michael Bullis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been thinking about a new travel device lately and would be 
>>>>>> interested in any feedback members might have.
>>>>>> I've been wondering lately if there is enough reasonably priced 
>>>>>> portable processing power available to make a guide bot.
>>>>>> From looking on the web there are a few projects, mostly not very 
>>>>>> efficient ones.  There is a company called nst that is working on 
>>>>>> it but expects to bring a product to market in the 2020's.  The 
>>>>>> reason most projects are so difficult is that they are spending 
>>>>>> inordinate amounts of time and money teaching the guide bots to 
>>>>>> climb stairs and fully "lead" the blind person.
>>>>>> We know this is unnecessary.
>>>>>> If you remove the necessity to "lead" the blind person the 
>>>>>> project becomes much simpler.
>>>>>> The device doesn't need to climb stairs.  The blind person can 
>>>>>> simply lift it up or down.  This assumes of course that it is a 
>>>>>> lightweight  device.
>>>>>> For example, suppose you have a two wheeled device with two 
>>>>>> forward facing cameras  and a handle on it that you direct.  You 
>>>>>> push the device down the sidewalk let's say.  When it detects an 
>>>>>> object that you should go around,
>>>>> to
>>>>>> the left, the left wheel has a brake on it.  When the left brake 
>>>>>> engages
>>>>> and
>>>>>> slows the left wheel, the device naturally turns that direction.  
>>>>>> The same thing happens if you want to go right.  If there's a 
>>>>>> curb coming, both wheels slowly engage their brakes.
>>>>>> At any time, if you as the person in charge wish to override the 
>>>>>> braking, you simply give a quick shove to the device.
>>>>>> The blind person provides the forward motion, eliminating any 
>>>>>> need for motive power.  The only thing the device needs power for 
>>>>>> is processing and braking.
>>>>>> Whether verbally, or with a small keypad, you tell the device 
>>>>>> what you want it to do.  If the device is going to talk to you at 
>>>>>> all it needs to be through an open-ear earbud.  But this may be 
>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>> I believe it would require two cameras for measuring distance and 
>>>>>> for scanning both in front and to the sides.
>>>>>> In order for the device to be practical it would have to solve 
>>>>>> problems
>>>>> that
>>>>>> the cane and most dogs don't solve.  That is, it would have to 
>>>>>> detect objects at head height.  And, it would have to be fast.
>>>>>> The thing that limits a cane user in new territory is the 
>>>>>> necessity of slowing down while detecting an object and moving 
>>>>>> around it.
>>>>>> I place a list of things below that are within reach of today's 
>>>>>> technology but I'm not sure if they are within the practical 
>>>>>> financial boundaries of a marketable device.
>>>>>> I thought those of you who think about matters like this might 
>>>>>> weigh in on this and let me know.
>>>>>> Here is my list of things the device could do.
>>>>>> 1.  avoiding objects-people and other interferences to the path 
>>>>>> of travel 2.  Detecting objects as high as one's head.
>>>>>> 3.  identifying curbs and ramps
>>>>>> 4.  recognizing intersecting sidewalks or other paths of travel 5.  
>>>>>> finding doors 6.  locating up or down stairs 7.  locating 
>>>>>> elevators 8.  locating elevator buttons 9.  finding restrooms 10.
>>>>>> finding empty urinals 11.  finding empty seats on busses or in 
>>>>>> conference rooms 12.  returning to an already found seat 13.
>>>>>> finding a bus stop 14.  finding a specific address 15.  following 
>>>>>> an indicated person I'd be interested in feedback on this idea.
>>>>>> If you wish to write me off-line, do so at mbullis at imagemd.org 
>>>>>> Thanks for your thinking.
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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