[nfb-talk] NFB Blind Driver Challenge was RE: APPLICATION FOR LOAN

Steve Jacobson steve.jacobson at visi.com
Wed Mar 6 18:20:50 UTC 2013 

Bryan,

My guess is that this really isn't an issue of competing styles.  What I see happening, and this is of course only a guess, is 
that a self-driving car such as the Google car is going to have some sort of visual interface to handle various problems.  For 
example, there will have to be a way to enter a destination and probably make other choices.  In addition, there may be other 
situational decisions or even displays that might be relevant that may be accessible to us as a result of the work that is being 
done with interfaces on our car.  Just because a car drives itself doesn't mean that it will be accessible to us.  

If we knew exactly what was going to happen, it would be much easier to know in which direction to go.  The trouble is we don't 
know, so it seems to me we have to keep trying to develop alternatives to put ourselves in the best position to take advantage of 
new technologies when they emerge.  I therefore don't see a real conflict between what we have done and what Google is doing.  If 
I could look ahead and see for certain that Google suddenly gives a darn about accessibility when they are designing a product and 
that their products such as a self-driving car work well for us, I would certainly not want us to spend money on other interfaces, 
although some of our work may have other applications.  However, Google's pattern is to design new technology, and then see how 
they might fit us in after the fact and I doubt that an emerging self-driving car will be any different.  I'd love to be wrong, 
though.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:44:49 -0600, Bryan Schulz wrote:

>hi,

>it is true about the two different styles.
>i wonder if people will even slightly convince the public of the safety of 
>the nfb design when it takes the driver decision and reaction time on top of 
>the computerized evaluation to avoid accidents.
>I would bet the 20% that lost employment aren't too thrilled with my 
>previous guess.
>Bryan Schulz

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 7:53 PM
>Subject: [nfb-talk] NFB Blind Driver Challenge was RE: APPLICATION FOR LOAN


>> Dear Bryan and list:
>>
>> Although I don't claim to be an expert on this project, I don't think ego 
>> on the part of the Federation was as much a factor as the difference in 
>> the ideas and philosophies behind the two cars. Basically, Google is 
>> trying to develop a car which can drive itself, whereas the NFB and 
>> Virginia Tech were trying to develop a car which blind people would 
>> actually be able to *drive* on our own, just as sighted people already do.
>>
>> At the 2011 state convention of the NFB of Maryland, I interviewed Mark 
>> Riccobono about the Blind Driver Challenge for a research project I was 
>> doing for school. When I asked him about the differences between the NFB's 
>> project and Google's, he explained to me that the main difference between 
>> the two initiatives was what they were trying to accomplish. Although 
>> Google's idea is a good one and he has nothing against it, he told me that 
>> Google's self-driving car would make the driver almost completely reliant 
>> on the car's technology. As we all know, technology is not perfect and is 
>> known to malfunction sometimes. The technology in the autonomous car would 
>> not only be responsible for gathering information about the conditions on 
>> the road, but also for actually driving the car. In contrast, the 
>> technology in the NFB Blind Driver car would only be responsible for 
>> gathering information about what's going on on the road and feeding that 
>> information to the driver. According to Mark, the technology would give 
>> information to the blind driver, who can then use his/her own mental 
>> compasity to react to the situation, just as sighted people already have 
>> to. This idea, Mark said, (I'm paraphraising here) comes from our 
>> philosophy in the Federation that blind people have the mental capacity 
>> and capabilities to compete on equal terms with our sighted peers given 
>> the proper training and opportunity. For more information about the 
>> background of the Blind Driver Challenge, you might read an article about 
>> the project written by Mark Riccobono which appeared in the December 2009 
>> Braille Monitor. You can find this article at the following link: 
>> https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0911/bm091103.htm
>>
>> Now, don't misinterpret what I'm saying. I'm not at all against the idea 
>> of the self-driving car; quite the contrary. I am fascinated by and fully 
>> support the efforts of Google and others to create a self-driving car and 
>> I look forward to the day when we will finally be able to drive 
>> independently, whether in a self-driving or a blind-drivable car. 
>> Hopefully it will happen in my lifetime and I will be able to experience 
>> this for myself. In the meantime, let's watch what happens and support 
>> whichever initiative produces a car which we can operate.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>> Public Relations Committee
>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan 
>> Schulz
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 6:48 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] APPLICATION FOR LOAN
>>
>> hi,
>>
>> you are correct sir and i'm not saying it was a mistake, just an insane 
>> expense and ego probably was a factor in not wanting to share technology 
>> and press with google.
>> i think the google car has a couple hundred thousand test miles from 
>> running in nevada or california.
>> Bryan Schulz
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] APPLICATION FOR LOAN
>>
>>
>>> Think he refers to the blind-drivable car.
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman
>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 5, 2013, at 14:48, Paul Wick <wickps at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brian,
>>>>
>>>> What is the $2 million you are referring to?
>>>>
>>>> To add to what Mr. Freeman said: As you probably know several NFB
>>>> employees, many of whom have devoted a good part of their lives to the
>>>> Federation lost their jobs last year due to budget reductions. Running
>>>> any kind of organization requires setting priorities, and at least to
>>>> this rank-and-file member I think our priorities should be basically
>>>> as they areâ¬
that is on activities that keep the NFB message in the
>>>> public eye.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/5/13, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> it was a choice, we know where 2 mil went.
>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 3:02 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] APPLICATION FOR LOAN
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is pretty simple, really. The NFB Board of Directors decided that,
>>>>>> given the current financial crunch, we could not afford to continue 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> loan program. If we all raise more funds for the organization, perhaps
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>
>>>>>> could bring the program back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2013, at 10:39, "Powers, Terry (NIH/NCI) [E]"
>>>>>> <Terry.Powers at nih.gov> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What was the reason for stopping the loan.  I do not remember hearing
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> word of this.  Guess I can not depend on the NFB for any assistance.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> was going to, in the near future, maybe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Terry Powers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Mike Freeman [mailto:k7uij at panix.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 7:39 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] APPLICATION FOR LOAN
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>> Andrews
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:27 PM
>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] APPLICATION FOR LOAN
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I remember correctly, the technology loan program was 
>>>>>>> discontinued.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At 09:50 AM 2/27/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>>>> Good morning all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can anyone tell me who i can contact in order to get an application
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> a loan through the NFB?  I am going to need to make sure I have an
>>>>>>>> alternate route for acquiring what I will need in order to get
>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>> the braille transcription course without a lot of static.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I want to purchase a 40-cell braille display because it is hard to
>>>>>>>> proofread with an 18-cell display.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> anita
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>>
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