[nfb-talk] Guide Bots

Wed May 29 23:14:29 UTC 2013

Our school campus was very easy to negotiate, and if I was traveling in the 
city off campus, I was usually walking sighted guide.  I didn't get 
permission to travel alone off campus until I was well into my mobility 
training.

Mark Tardif
Nuclear arms will not hold you.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Anjelina
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:56 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots

Out of curiosity, for those who didn't use a cane growing up how did you get 
around? Did you decide a guide or would you just walk around in familiar 
areas alone?

Sent from Anjelina's iPhone

On May 29, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net> wrote:

> I feel like I'm from the dark ages. lol. I didn't get my first cane until 
> i was eighteen. I went to public school growing up in my part of 
> California none that I knew used a cane at school. I'm totally blind and 
> looking back I'm amazed I didn't kill myself. I use a cane but now have my 
> second guide dog and love it but I know there will be times that I need to 
> use a cane so keep one on hand.
> On 5/29/2013 8:08 AM, Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) wrote:
>> Terry and Listers,
>>
>> Back in the day, (sixties) not many blind kids learned to use the cane 
>> until our teen age years. When we did, it was at a summer program at the 
>> state school for the blind, and we had six weeks or so of O and M 
>> training.  I took my cane with me to school, but often left it in my 
>> locker (back then we had full sized ones at our school). When the halls 
>> were crowded, etc, I learned that I had better take my cane with me to 
>> avoid embarrassing encounters with other people, particularly girls. 
>> (smile) So, I began using my cane all the time at school. I learned 
>> pretty quickly that my cane allowed me to be independent, and explained 
>> to others why I might smack into them once in a while. It didn't take 
>> long to develop my current attitude that the cane is a symbol of 
>> independence, not a badge of helplessness.  Of course, I won't go 
>> anywhere without my cane now, and I do a fair bit of traveling for the 
>> job and sometimes for the NFB.
>>
>> Glad to hear you have overcome the hesitancy about using your cane, and 
>> don't feel awkward using it whenever and where ever you feel you need to. 
>> I don't use the cane in my house, but certainly do in the office area at 
>> work.
>>
>> Enjoy your travels.
>>
>> /s/
>>
>> Bennett Prows
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Powers, 
>> Terry (NIH/NCI) [E]
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:51 AM
>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>>  I had a mom who was over protective and I did not get cane training 
>> until I was a tean.  This made me fearful of using a cane, like I was 
>> publisizing that I was blind.  I improved some and then met a husband who 
>> never wanted me to use a cane.  He never really accepted my blindness. 
>> Now I am a free woman, again, the rest of my family accept me and my cane 
>> and my ability to be independent.  If someone asks to assist me, I just 
>> tell them I can follow them.  This usually happens with Metro Access.   I 
>> had a bad fall, this winter, due to a bad curb cut and I find I use my 
>> cane, more and more.  I only walk with out it in locations, I know well, 
>> like in the office.  We just moved my office, so I walked around here for 
>> 3 weeks with a cane.  There are parts of the building I still use a cane 
>> in, because there is a lot of glass.
>> I have a sister with a learning problem and she likes to put her hand on 
>> my sholder and try to guide me.  It drives me crazy, but I try to put up 
>> with it.  She also puts my cane together, for me.  I am fearful she will 
>> get hurt or I might get hit, while she is doing it.  My other sister 
>> says, she is only trying to help.  Thankfully, I have never had anyone 
>> ask me to leave my cane, behind.  My cane is a part of me and others need 
>> to accept me the way I am.
>>
>> Terry Powers
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gloria Whipple [mailto:glowhi at centurylink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 8:01 PM
>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> My family is still the same way. I cannot get it through their heads 
>> about being independent using the cane.
>>
>> Gloria Whipple
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua 
>> Lester
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 15:16
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> If it was someone that had never met a blind person before, it would be 
>> different.
>> My problem is, that it's stupid family members that know better!
>> You can fix ignorant all day long, but you can't fix stupid!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mark Tardif 
>> [markspark at roadrunner.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:12 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> It's sometimes very hard and one has to grit the teeth to avoid saying 
>> unpleasant things.  But having said that, I think we do a better job of 
>> educating when we are gentle and sensitive to the fact that these people 
>> just don't know and are probably nervous as heck at meeting what very 
>> well might be their first blind person.  But it isn't always easy.
>>
>> Mark Tardif
>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:50 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> Me too!
>> I can't stand ignorant people!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria Whipple 
>> [glowhi at centurylink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:48 PM
>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> I also don't like it and I set them straight on what it is.
>>
>> Gloria Whipple
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua 
>> Lester
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:46
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> Hi, Mrs. Gloria!
>> I get so tired of ignorant ideots calling my cane a "stick!"
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria Whipple 
>> [glowhi at centurylink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:35 PM
>> To: 'Misty Dawn Bradley'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> Hi Misty,
>>
>> I agree with you on the GPS.
>>
>> I have had people tell me to leave my stick if I am going sighted guide 
>> with them. I tell them that my so called stick is part of me. I don't 
>> leave home without it.
>>
>> Gloria Whipple
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty 
>> Dawn Bradley
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:42
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> I am the same way. I have been using my cane since I was in kindergarten 
>> or first grade, which is about 20 years ago, so I don't feel right when I 
>> don't
>>
>> have my cane with me. I also like the challenge of figuring out things on 
>> my
>>
>> own, although it is nice to have a GPS sometimes, but it is not a 
>> necessity.
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>>
>>> I am not sure about this. I am so use to using my cane and like it.
>>>
>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
>>> Jacobson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:28
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> To me, the idea of a device that is responsible for guiding, even if
>>> made simpler as described here, adds so much complexity and size that
>>> really has limited advantage to my way of thinking.  A small device
>>> that could be mounted on a cane or connected to a dog's leash to
>>> detect objects and provide feedback would provide most of what a
>>> guiding device would without the size and other complicating issues.
>>> Why does it have to aim itself at all if the blind person were to
>>> receive enough information to do the aiming from a smaller travel aid?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:24:59 -0400, Michael Bullis wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been thinking about a new travel device lately and would be
>>>> interested in any feedback members might have.
>>>> I've been wondering lately if there is enough reasonably priced
>>>> portable processing power available to make a guide bot.
>>> >From looking on the web there are a few projects, mostly not very
>>>> efficient ones.  There is a company called nst that is working on it
>>>> but expects to bring a product to market in the 2020's.  The reason
>>>> most projects are so difficult is that they are spending inordinate
>>>> amounts of time and money teaching the guide bots to climb stairs and
>>>> fully "lead" the blind person.
>>>> We know this is unnecessary.
>>>> If you remove the necessity to "lead" the blind person the project
>>>> becomes much simpler.
>>>> The device doesn't need to climb stairs.  The blind person can simply
>>>> lift it up or down.  This assumes of course that it is a lightweight 
>>>> device.
>>>> For example, suppose you have a two wheeled device with two forward
>>>> facing cameras  and a handle on it that you direct.  You push the
>>>> device down the sidewalk let's say.  When it detects an object that
>>>> you should go around,
>>> to
>>>> the left, the left wheel has a brake on it.  When the left brake
>>>> engages
>>> and
>>>> slows the left wheel, the device naturally turns that direction.  The
>>>> same thing happens if you want to go right.  If there's a curb coming,
>>>> both wheels slowly engage their brakes.
>>>> At any time, if you as the person in charge wish to override the
>>>> braking, you simply give a quick shove to the device.
>>>> The blind person provides the forward motion, eliminating any need for
>>>> motive power.  The only thing the device needs power for is processing
>>>> and braking.
>>>> Whether verbally, or with a small keypad, you tell the device what you
>>>> want it to do.  If the device is going to talk to you at all it needs
>>>> to be through an open-ear earbud.  But this may be unnecessary.
>>>> I believe it would require two cameras for measuring distance and for
>>>> scanning both in front and to the sides.
>>>> In order for the device to be practical it would have to solve
>>>> problems
>>> that
>>>> the cane and most dogs don't solve.  That is, it would have to detect
>>>> objects at head height.  And, it would have to be fast.  The thing
>>>> that limits a cane user in new territory is the necessity of slowing
>>>> down while detecting an object and moving around it.
>>>> I place a list of things below that are within reach of today's
>>>> technology but I'm not sure if they are within the practical financial
>>>> boundaries of a marketable device.
>>>> I thought those of you who think about matters like this might weigh
>>>> in on this and let me know.
>>>> Here is my list of things the device could do.
>>>> 1.  avoiding objects-people and other interferences to the path of
>>>> travel
>>>> 2.  Detecting objects as high as one's head.
>>>> 3.  identifying curbs and ramps
>>>> 4.  recognizing intersecting sidewalks or other paths of travel
>>>> 5.  finding doors
>>>> 6.  locating up or down stairs
>>>> 7.  locating elevators
>>>> 8.  locating elevator buttons
>>>> 9.  finding restrooms
>>>> 10.  finding empty urinals
>>>> 11.  finding empty seats on busses or in conference rooms
>>>> 12.  returning to an already found seat
>>>> 13.  finding a bus stop
>>>> 14.  finding a specific address
>>>> 15.  following an indicated person
>>>> I'd be interested in feedback on this idea.
>>>> If you wish to write me off-line, do so at
>>>> mbullis at imagemd.org
>>>> Thanks for your thinking.
>>>> Mike
>>>> _______________________________________________
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