[nfb-talk] respect was RE: guide bots

Fri May 31 22:51:18 UTC 2013

Joshua,
Yes, I agree respect must be earned however it's also important to
preserve your own dignity. I can understand your outrage with your
barber, but you never know when someday he might "get it." Even if he
insists you take his shoulder you can also take control and politely
refuse his help. Just as respect is a two-way street, so are our
reactions to people in general.

On 5/31/13, Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name> wrote:
> I mostly meant the thing about acting like Democrats, which was just
> completely uncalled for.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On May 31, 2013, at 6:36 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>
>> Mr. Brannan.
>> I respect those individuals, but when they continue to do the things that
>> I respectfully asked them not to do, it turns me off.
>> This barber is a prime example of that.
>> Unfortunately, he's the only one in my small town.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Buddy Brannan
>> [buddy at brannan.name]
>> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 5:29 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] respect was RE: guide bots
>>
>> Wow Josh,
>>
>> In one respect, you are correct: for respect to be given, it must be
>> earned. At least, if one acts in a disrespectful fashion, then that
>> respect hasn't been earned. Sorry to say, I don't see much in this
>> response that merits respect, as it is itself disrespectful of people who
>> don't deserve to be disrespectful. So, on the one hand, respect must be
>> earned to be given, on the other hand, who acts first? I hope for the
>> first actor in such situations to be me; in other words, I will give
>> people the respect due any human being until such time as they prove that
>> they aren't worthy of respect by being themselves disrespectful for no
>> good reason. I see no good reason for your disrespectful post below.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 31, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> You guys sound like Democrats!
>>> Give everything unconditionally!
>>> Respect is to be earned!
>>> If you want respect, you must give it!
>>> We shouldn't give those people respect, if they don't respect us in
>>> return!
>>> It's a two-way street!
>>> I just got a haircut today, and my barber, who has known me since I was a
>>> baby, still insists that I put my hand on his shoulder, instead of just
>>> letting me use my cane to get into the barbershop!
>>> He doesn't understand, although I've told him 100 times, that I could
>>> just use my cane and follow him!
>>> BTW, putting my hand on his shoulder isn't propper "sighted guide," and
>>> I've told him that, time and time again, to no avail!
>>> Like Chris said, I've thrown up my hands, and given up on him!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Anjelina
>>> [anjelinac26 at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 5:09 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> Wow! That's quite harsh to call a group of people stupid. Even if they
>>> don't understand what you think they should.
>>>
>>> Sent from Anjelina's iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 31, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's the term I use for the stupid ones that no matter how many times
>>>> you correct them, they just don't get it!
>>>> Good grief!
>>>> There is a difference between ignorant, and stupid.
>>>> The ignorant ones actually want to know, but the stupid ones just don't
>>>> care.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sheila
>>>> Leigland [sleigland at bresnan.net]
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 2:11 PM
>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>
>>>> hi I agree completely on this one. Part of showing respect is not using
>>>> terms that can e insulting to others.
>>>> On 5/31/2013 12:18 PM, Eddie Salcido wrote:
>>>>> I know this message is late, but I'd like to address something that
>>>>> Joshua
>>>>> said.  He called sighted people sighties.  How is that different from
>>>>> people
>>>>> calling us blinks or blindies?  How can we expect to have a mature
>>>>> dialogue
>>>>> with people when we use such terms?
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Joshua
>>>>> Lester
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:02 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian!
>>>>> It's not that I have all kinds of problems, but it's that the ignorance
>>>>> is
>>>>> getting old!
>>>>> We need to do more as blind individuals to educate the sighties about
>>>>> us, so
>>>>> we don't have to deal with the ignorance for much longer.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bryan Schulz
>>>>> [b.schulz at sbcglobal.net]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:58 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>>
>>>>> hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> if that gets you torqed, you've got more problems than that!
>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <JLester8462 at pccua.edu>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:45 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Mrs. Gloria!
>>>>>> I get so tired of ignorant ideots calling my cane a "stick!"
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria
>>>>>> Whipple
>>>>>> [glowhi at centurylink.net]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:35 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Misty Dawn Bradley'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Misty,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with you on the GPS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have had people tell me to leave my stick if I am going sighted
>>>>>> guide
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> them. I tell them that my so called stick is part of me. I don't
>>>>>> leave
>>>>>> home
>>>>>> without it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>> Dawn
>>>>>> Bradley
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:42
>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am the same way. I have been using my cane since I was in
>>>>>> kindergarten
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> first grade, which is about 20 years ago, so I don't feel right when
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>
>>>>>> have my cane with me. I also like the challenge of figuring out things
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> my
>>>>>>
>>>>>> own, although it is nice to have a GPS sometimes, but it is not a
>>>>>> necessity.
>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:33 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not sure about this. I am so use to using my cane and like it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>> Jacobson
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:28
>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me, the idea of a device that is responsible for guiding, even if
>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>> simpler as described here, adds so much complexity and
>>>>>>> size that really has limited advantage to my way of thinking.  A
>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>> device that could be mounted on a cane or connected to a
>>>>>>> dog's leash to detect objects and provide feedback would provide most
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> what a guiding device would without the size and other
>>>>>>> complicating issues.  Why does it have to aim itself at all if the
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> person were to receive enough information to do the
>>>>>>> aiming from a smaller travel aid?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:24:59 -0400, Michael Bullis wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been thinking about a new travel device lately and would be
>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>> in any feedback members might have.
>>>>>>>> I've been wondering lately if there is enough reasonably priced
>>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>>> processing power available to make a guide bot.
>>>>>>>> From looking on the web there are a few projects, mostly not very
>>>>>>>> efficient
>>>>>>>> ones.  There is a company called nst that is working on it but
>>>>>>>> expects to
>>>>>>>> bring a product to market in the 2020's.  The reason most projects
>>>>>>>> are so
>>>>>>>> difficult is that they are spending inordinate amounts of time and
>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>> teaching the guide bots to climb stairs and fully "lead" the blind
>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>> We know this is unnecessary.
>>>>>>>> If you remove the necessity to "lead" the blind person the project
>>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>>> much simpler.
>>>>>>>> The device doesn't need to climb stairs.  The blind person can
>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>> lift
>>>>>>>> it up or down.  This assumes of course that it is a lightweight
>>>>>>>> device.
>>>>>>>> For example, suppose you have a two wheeled device with two forward
>>>>>>>> facing
>>>>>>>> cameras  and a handle on it that you direct.  You push the device
>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> sidewalk let's say.  When it detects an object that you should go
>>>>>>>> around,
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the left, the left wheel has a brake on it.  When the left brake
>>>>>>>> engages
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> slows the left wheel, the device naturally turns that direction.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>> thing happens if you want to go right.  If there's a curb coming,
>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>> wheels slowly engage their brakes.
>>>>>>>> At any time, if you as the person in charge wish to override the
>>>>>>>> braking,
>>>>>>>> you simply give a quick shove to the device.
>>>>>>>> The blind person provides the forward motion, eliminating any need
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> motive power.  The only thing the device needs power for is
>>>>>>>> processing
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> braking.
>>>>>>>> Whether verbally, or with a small keypad, you tell the device what
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> it to do.  If the device is going to talk to you at all it needs to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> through an open-ear earbud.  But this may be unnecessary.
>>>>>>>> I believe it would require two cameras for measuring distance and
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> scanning both in front and to the sides.
>>>>>>>> In order for the device to be practical it would have to solve
>>>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> the cane and most dogs don't solve.  That is, it would have to
>>>>>>>> detect
>>>>>>>> objects at head height.  And, it would have to be fast.  The thing
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> limits a cane user in new territory is the necessity of slowing
>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>> detecting an object and moving around it.
>>>>>>>> I place a list of things below that are within reach of today's
>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>> but I'm not sure if they are within the practical financial
>>>>>>>> boundaries of
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> marketable device.
>>>>>>>> I thought those of you who think about matters like this might weigh
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> this and let me know.
>>>>>>>> Here is my list of things the device could do.
>>>>>>>> 1.  avoiding objects-people and other interferences to the path of
>>>>>>>> travel
>>>>>>>> 2.  Detecting objects as high as one's head.
>>>>>>>> 3.  identifying curbs and ramps
>>>>>>>> 4.  recognizing intersecting sidewalks or other paths of travel
>>>>>>>> 5.  finding doors
>>>>>>>> 6.  locating up or down stairs
>>>>>>>> 7.  locating elevators
>>>>>>>> 8.  locating elevator buttons
>>>>>>>> 9.  finding restrooms
>>>>>>>> 10.  finding empty urinals
>>>>>>>> 11.  finding empty seats on busses or in conference rooms
>>>>>>>> 12.  returning to an already found seat
>>>>>>>> 13.  finding a bus stop
>>>>>>>> 14.  finding a specific address
>>>>>>>> 15.  following an indicated person
>>>>>>>> I'd be interested in feedback on this idea.
>>>>>>>> If you wish to write me off-line, do so at
>>>>>>>> mbullis at imagemd.org
>>>>>>>> Thanks for your thinking.
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> s
>>>>>> i
>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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-- 
Anjelina