[nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act

Michael Hingson info at michaelhingson.com
Sat Apr 4 22:00:27 UTC 2015


Chuck,

I believe there are also instances where the police did not side with the
blind person. There are issues. 


Best,


Michael Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Charles
Krugman via nfb-talk
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 7:20 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act

here in California I am aware of several instances where in the situation
you presented police sided with the blind person who was in fact a dog user.

I don't know what occurs in other parts of the country or if this is because
California has state antidiscrimination laws that are stronger than the ADA.
Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: John Heim via nfb-talk
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 2:25 PM
To: Mike Freeman ; NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act

I don't know... When a blind person is refused service, the police already
routinely side with the restaurant owner. Can you imagine what they'll say
when the owner claims his religion prohibits serving someone with a dog?  I
can envision some cabbie deciding to take it upon himself to stand up for
his rights to refuse service to people with guide dogs not knowing and not
caring what a federal court would say.

Governor Pence of Indiana only  recently admitted the law would allow
businesses to discriminate against gays.  At first he was denying
everything. It has been nearly impossible to get answers from these people
and the confusion around what the bill allows and does not allow is
deliberately enormous. You'll never get them to clear up what you can do and
what you can't under this law.



On 03/31/2015 03:44 PM, Mike Freeman via nfb-talk wrote:
> Federal law trumps state law and the ADA still applies in the 
> situation of people using guide dogs being refused cab rides.
>
> In other words, I think Chris is correct.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Michael Hingson via nfb-talk
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:24 PM
> To: 'Chris Nusbaum'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'; 'John Heim'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act
>
> Chris,
>
> I respectively disagree. What about the many Islamic oriented taxi 
> drivers who deny the rights of blind persons with guide dogs to ride 
> in their cabs?
> I believe that under this law blind guide dog users can be prevented 
> from equal and total access.
>
> The "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" does effect blind people directly.
> The law isn't just about gays and lesbians.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris 
> Nusbaum via nfb-talk
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:35 PM
> To: 'John Heim'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act
>
> John,
>
> Regardless of our individual feelings on this legislation, I don't 
> think it would be appropriate for the NFB to add our collective voice 
> to the already strong chorus of opposition to this bill.  Throughout 
> our history we have had a policy which states that we do not 
> officially get involved in political controversies which do not 
> directly effect the blind. If we were to justify our opposition to 
> this legislation by asserting that blind people could be effected 
> because there are blind people who are also gay, we could use the same 
> logic to justify our collective support of or opposition to virtually 
> every issue with which a federal or state legislature concerns itself. 
> In adopting this line of reasoning, we would begin to lose our focus 
> and eventually the very purpose for which our organization is founded. 
> We are an organization which deals specifically with issues which 
> directly effect the blind on account of our blindness. Other matters, 
> however important they might be to an individual blind person, would 
> not fall under our jurisdiction and would be contrary to the 
> organizational purposes established in our Constitution.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John 
> Heim via nfb-talk
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 3:12 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act
>
>
> The NFB should issue a statement condemning Indiana's religious 
> freedom act.
>
> I've been discriminated against in my life. I once was  turned down 
> for a job because the person who did the interview literally would not 
> believe that a blind person could use a computer. I'd been working as 
> a programmer and systems administrator for 15 years at that point. 
> Another time, I actually diagnosed a network problem during the job 
> interview. I plugged my laptop into the network, ran some diagnostics, 
> and explained what the problem was right there during the interview. 
> But I didn't get that job either because they said part of the job was 
> drawing images for their web site. Admittedly, It's debatable whether 
> that second example is discrimination. In fact, I personally would not 
> call it discrimination but people I've mentioned it to have felt 
> otherwise. The point is that I know what it's like being turned down 
> for a job because of something you can't control.  I know what it's 
> like when that happens to you when you're worried about having health 
> insurance for your family and making the house payment.
>
> I remember coming home from the job interview where I diagnosed the 
> network problem, dancing around and telling my wife I'd nailed it. I 
> remember the feeling I got a few days later when she read me the 
> rejection letter that said they really needed someone who could see. I 
> said it was their loss and tried to believe it. But we really needed 
> our health insurance.
>
> Now you have a bunch of lawmakers in Indiana telling us it's okay for 
> someone to turn a person down for a job because they're in a gay marriage.
> Most of those lawmakers in Indiana have probably never been 
> discriminated against in their lives. They don't know what it's like.
>
> What they are doing is just wrong. And even if you don't agree, we in 
> the NFB need to stand  up against discrimination in all of it's forms.
> This law is intended for use against gays but there's no reason it 
> can't be used against racial minorities or even disabled people.
>
> We have to add our voices to those who have come out against this law.
> It's the right thing to do.
>
>
> --
> John Heim
> john at johnheim.com
>
>
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--
John Heim
john at johnheim.com


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