[Nfbc-info] Can someone explain

[ckrugman at sbcglobal.net]

I am bothered by the term "mentally impaired." There is a big difference 
between those who are mentally ill or who have a developmental disability 
such as a learning disability or mental retardation. There is a big 
difference and the term "mentally impaired" is not a widely standardized 
term so it is basically meaningless as its interpretation is dubious.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Peterson" <its_mike at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain


>    Hi Jonathan. As I mentioned previously the 90% versus 76% isn't the 
> most troubling statistic. The site that claims unemployment amongst the 
> blind and disabled is 40% or less bothers me much more. However if the 
> definition of mental illness is to broad and encompassing wouldn't that 
> actually cause the unemployment rate to be lower?  For example if we said 
> everyone including those wearing contact lenses and those who have had 
> corrective lazer surgery can count as blind wouldn't that pull our 
> statistic down.  In one report Fred Schroder noted the New Mexico 
> commission did prior to his comissionership count blind people in such a 
> way and some of his case closures included people like an airline pilot.
> The not really blind  crowd artificially inflated case closures.
> If you included everyone who visited a psychologist as "Mentally impaired" 
> that would schew those figures similarly.
> One counselor noted in our discussion statistics aren't to important but I 
> replied as a consumer and an advocate they are. A legislature is more 
> likely to vote for legislation that will help curve 76 per cent or 90 
> percent unemployment than he /she will if the disability group has a 30 or 
> 40 per cent rate.
> Neither rate is acceptible but the lower one is more socially tollerable.
> Mike
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>
>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I believe the difference you find is that "mental impairment" is a very
>> large classification. I know you noted that there are various causes of
>> blindness. However, all of these causes lead to the different
>> progressions of the same end result. However, "mental impairments" are
>> numerous. Additionally, the impairments do not all have the same causes
>> nor the same symptoms. They are not all varying degrees along the same
>> spectrum. Thus, I think lumping them all together, particularly for this
>> exercise, does not parse out your data enough in order to draw any
>> meaningful conclusions. If you wish to draw a meaningful conclusion
>> about employment of people with disabilities, you need to separate out
>> all of the disabilities. Even in the category of mental impairment for
>> example, Schizophrenia is much different than say a Learning Disability.
>> Both of these disabilities have different causes and symptoms, and would
>> most definitely have much different impacts on one's ability to gain
>> employment.
>>
>> Best-
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>> Jonathan T. Lyens MPA
>> Email: jonathan at lyens.com
>> Fax: (321) 256-8896
>> Skype: jlyens
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Michael Peterson
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:16 AM
>> To: NFB of California List
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>
>>
>>    Hi Angela. Just as blindness encompasses a variety of conditions
>> mental
>> impairment encompasses everyone from a slow learner to some one with a
>> severe mental impairment.
>> My problem with this site isn't their definition of mental impairment
>> That
>> 90% comes from a different article.
>> My problem is the site says unemployment statistics are totally schewed
>> and
>> that the unemployment rate for those with disabilities though three or
>> four
>> times higher than the main stream and are actually   only 30per cent or
>> 40
>> per cent.
>> My request for clarification regarding the mental impairment statistic
>> ismade because
>> those who compile and use the statistic that states the blind are the
>> highest underemployed group must have access to the other statistics
>> including the statistics for mental impairment otherwise they wouldn't
>> make
>> the claim that the blind are the highest 70% to 76% unemployed.
>> They didn't just dream up that statistic they had to be familiar with
>> the
>> disabilities literature to make the claim.
>>
>> The site I was looking at suggests those figures are vastly inflated by
>> the
>> blind and other disability groups maybe unintentionally.
>> I don't agree with this site's challenge but I'm looking for information
>>
>> that will refute it.
>> Just by knowing blind persons and who works and who doesn't I see the
>> probability of our statistic being right and one thing not taken in to
>> account those who are not in the work force for x number of months or
>> years
>> drop of the "unemployment roles although they still are unemployed. The
>> author of the site says college students aren't considered as unemployed
>> if
>> they are full time but in fact a college student recently laid off or
>> fired
>> who decides to go back to school could be a part of the unemployment
>> rate
>> and might even be drawing unemployment.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
>> To: "'NFB of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 4:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>
>>
>>> Define "mental impairment."
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Michael Peterson
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:27 PM
>>> To: NFB of California List
>>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>>
>>> Hi all.  This week my 680 seminar in rehabilitation class is having a
>>> discussion on mental impairment.
>>> During this discussion the statistics cited suggest the unemployment
>> rate
>>> for people with a mental impairment is about 90 per cent.
>>> We on a regular basis say that the blind are the highest unemployed
>>> disability group with about 76 to 80 per cent unemployment.
>>> Which is correct and how can I verify the figures are misused if the
>>> mentally impaired aren't the highest unemployed population?
>>> Thanks
>>> Mike
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfbc-info:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syi
>> x.co
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfbc-info:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/its_mike%40sb
>> cglobal.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfbc-info:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/jonathan%40ly
>> ens.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Nfbc-info:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/its_mike%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Nfbc-info:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net