[Nfbc-info] Can someone explain

ckrugman at sbcglobal.net ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Mon Jun 15 12:37:28 UTC 2009 

Your instructor needs to get out of academia and become part of the real 
world.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Peterson" <its_mike at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain


>    Hi chuck what bothers me and I haven't figured it out yet though is 
> most of the books articles I read show the disabled have a 70% 
> unemployment rate but the disability site I gave the link for says that 
> figure is half or less than half. If correct this would suggest NFB and 
> other agencies are either uninformed about people with disabilities or 
> they are outright lying about the jobless rate of blind consumers between 
> the ages of 18 and 65.
> I have a web resource on the mental impairment terminology which I will 
> check out and get back in a couple days when I have a chance to finish two 
> school projects I'm in the least three weeks of this term and because we 
> want to go to Sacramento this week or next that means I need to finish 
> most or all of the school work or carry the laptop.  I don't want to do 
> the papers on the laptop although I could do discussion forums using it.
> Our instructor doesn't like us to even use third person language because 
> he says it compartmentalizes people. Better to say a person who happens to 
> be blind than "the blind"
> etc.
> Mike
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>
>
>>I am bothered by the term "mentally impaired." There is a big difference 
>>between those who are mentally ill or who have a developmental disability 
>>such as a learning disability or mental retardation. There is a big 
>>difference and the term "mentally impaired" is not a widely standardized 
>>term so it is basically meaningless as its interpretation is dubious.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Michael Peterson" <its_mike at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>
>>
>>>    Hi Jonathan. As I mentioned previously the 90% versus 76% isn't the 
>>> most troubling statistic. The site that claims unemployment amongst the 
>>> blind and disabled is 40% or less bothers me much more. However if the 
>>> definition of mental illness is to broad and encompassing wouldn't that 
>>> actually cause the unemployment rate to be lower?  For example if we 
>>> said everyone including those wearing contact lenses and those who have 
>>> had corrective lazer surgery can count as blind wouldn't that pull our 
>>> statistic down.  In one report Fred Schroder noted the New Mexico 
>>> commission did prior to his comissionership count blind people in such a 
>>> way and some of his case closures included people like an airline pilot.
>>> The not really blind  crowd artificially inflated case closures.
>>> If you included everyone who visited a psychologist as "Mentally 
>>> impaired" that would schew those figures similarly.
>>> One counselor noted in our discussion statistics aren't to important but 
>>> I replied as a consumer and an advocate they are. A legislature is more 
>>> likely to vote for legislation that will help curve 76 per cent or 90 
>>> percent unemployment than he /she will if the disability group has a 30 
>>> or 40 per cent rate.
>>> Neither rate is acceptible but the lower one is more socially 
>>> tollerable.
>>> Mike
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
>>> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:36 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>
>>>> I believe the difference you find is that "mental impairment" is a very
>>>> large classification. I know you noted that there are various causes of
>>>> blindness. However, all of these causes lead to the different
>>>> progressions of the same end result. However, "mental impairments" are
>>>> numerous. Additionally, the impairments do not all have the same causes
>>>> nor the same symptoms. They are not all varying degrees along the same
>>>> spectrum. Thus, I think lumping them all together, particularly for 
>>>> this
>>>> exercise, does not parse out your data enough in order to draw any
>>>> meaningful conclusions. If you wish to draw a meaningful conclusion
>>>> about employment of people with disabilities, you need to separate out
>>>> all of the disabilities. Even in the category of mental impairment for
>>>> example, Schizophrenia is much different than say a Learning 
>>>> Disability.
>>>> Both of these disabilities have different causes and symptoms, and 
>>>> would
>>>> most definitely have much different impacts on one's ability to gain
>>>> employment.
>>>>
>>>> Best-
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan T. Lyens MPA
>>>> Email: jonathan at lyens.com
>>>> Fax: (321) 256-8896
>>>> Skype: jlyens
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>> [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Michael Peterson
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:16 AM
>>>> To: NFB of California List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Hi Angela. Just as blindness encompasses a variety of conditions
>>>> mental
>>>> impairment encompasses everyone from a slow learner to some one with a
>>>> severe mental impairment.
>>>> My problem with this site isn't their definition of mental impairment
>>>> That
>>>> 90% comes from a different article.
>>>> My problem is the site says unemployment statistics are totally schewed
>>>> and
>>>> that the unemployment rate for those with disabilities though three or
>>>> four
>>>> times higher than the main stream and are actually   only 30per cent or
>>>> 40
>>>> per cent.
>>>> My request for clarification regarding the mental impairment statistic
>>>> ismade because
>>>> those who compile and use the statistic that states the blind are the
>>>> highest underemployed group must have access to the other statistics
>>>> including the statistics for mental impairment otherwise they wouldn't
>>>> make
>>>> the claim that the blind are the highest 70% to 76% unemployed.
>>>> They didn't just dream up that statistic they had to be familiar with
>>>> the
>>>> disabilities literature to make the claim.
>>>>
>>>> The site I was looking at suggests those figures are vastly inflated by
>>>> the
>>>> blind and other disability groups maybe unintentionally.
>>>> I don't agree with this site's challenge but I'm looking for 
>>>> information
>>>>
>>>> that will refute it.
>>>> Just by knowing blind persons and who works and who doesn't I see the
>>>> probability of our statistic being right and one thing not taken in to
>>>> account those who are not in the work force for x number of months or
>>>> years
>>>> drop of the "unemployment roles although they still are unemployed. The
>>>> author of the site says college students aren't considered as 
>>>> unemployed
>>>> if
>>>> they are full time but in fact a college student recently laid off or
>>>> fired
>>>> who decides to go back to school could be a part of the unemployment
>>>> rate
>>>> and might even be drawing unemployment.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
>>>> To: "'NFB of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 4:50 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Define "mental impairment."
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Michael Peterson
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:27 PM
>>>>> To: NFB of California List
>>>>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all.  This week my 680 seminar in rehabilitation class is having a
>>>>> discussion on mental impairment.
>>>>> During this discussion the statistics cited suggest the unemployment
>>>> rate
>>>>> for people with a mental impairment is about 90 per cent.
>>>>> We on a regular basis say that the blind are the highest unemployed
>>>>> disability group with about 76 to 80 per cent unemployment.
>>>>> Which is correct and how can I verify the figures are misused if the
>>>>> mentally impaired aren't the highest unemployed population?
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>
>
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