[nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag

Thu Feb 4 14:13:25 UTC 2010

Yeah, the government has come out way ahead on the assistance they've given 
me. I'm sure that I've paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes over 
my professional career.  That's a direct benefit. But society comes out even 
further ahead in that leaving people behind is more than just a financial 
drain. It makes society weaker. You never know where the next big technical 
or scientific breakthrough isgoing to come from. It could be from a person 
of an ethnic minority, a woman, or a disabled person. Its a cliche but its 
true -- diverse societies are stronger.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E.J. Zufelt" <lists at zufelt.ca>
To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag

> Agreed,
>
> I would also argue that there is an overall benefit to the economy  when 
> individuals with disabilities have the technology they need to  fully 
> participate in our information based economy, either as  consumers or 
> producers.
>
>
> Everett
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
> On 3-Feb-10, at 5:34 PM, John G. Heim wrote:
>
>> I would really like to disabuse people of these social darwinistic 
>> principles. There's nothing moral or practical about social  darwinism. 
>> In other words, there's nothing moral or practical in  requiring blind 
>> people to buy their own accessible devices.
>>
>> The only legitimate reason to demand that blind people buy their own 
>> accessible devices is that it may give them incentive to improve 
>> themselves. If you give someone something, they are less likely to 
>> appreciate it. That much is true but it only goes so far. I doubt  that 
>> there is really a huge problem in this country with blind  people getting 
>> lazy because the government bought them a speech  synthesizer or note 
>> taker. You're not going to see blind people  saying, "Heck, now that I 
>> have this Pac Mate I have every thing I  could possibly want. So why 
>> should I bother going to school or  getting a job?"
>>
>> When society helps the disabled, we all win. We are all better off 
>> because of the laws that required builders to put accessible  bathrooms 
>> in buildings and to add wheelchair ramps and wide doors.  People in 
>> wheelchairs are now much, much more an integral part of  our society than 
>> they were before the laws requiring those things  were passed. It 
>> "normalized" being in a wheelchair. Now people in  wheelchairs are just 
>> like everyone else. And our society is much,  much better for it.
>>
>> Why should the government buy blind people accessible devices?  Because 
>> it works and its the right thing to do.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>> To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag
>>
>>
>>> You know, I am of the opinion that if possible, and especially if a 
>>> blind
>>> person has a job, that that person should try to purchase adaptive 
>>> equipment
>>> him/herself rather than ask someone else to do it -- that is unless  it 
>>> is
>>> something like a $10000 braille display, but even then, that is  less 
>>> than a
>>> sighted person would spend on a car, and therefore assuming you are 
>>> working,
>>> it shouldn't be impossible to buy.  And if you do buy it, you are  free 
>>> to
>>> move to another state and take it with you.  If the state buys it,  it 
>>> is
>>> actually their property.
>>> I agree wholeheartedly that the price tag for adaptive equipment is
>>> ridiculous.  But consider the expenses that most people have who are
>>> sighted -- they might have some other less apparent disability, or  they 
>>> may
>>> be supporting a large family plus some relatives, or they may just  be 
>>> normal
>>> persons who drive inexpensive cars because the luxury ones are too 
>>> pricy.
>>> A braille display doesn't require gas and costs less than even a  used 
>>> car.
>>> Anyway, my latest "car" was the Book Sense.  It is pretty expensive  for 
>>> a
>>> glorified mp3 player, but it does what I need and is accessible.   In a
>>> perfect world everything would be accessible, but who ever heard of a
>>> perfect world?
>>> I'm going to get a lot of use out of this little gizmo.
>>> Anyway, I hope I don't ruffle too many feathers.  Even when I was a 
>>> "poor
>>> student" I still bought my own cctv's.  This was before the ADA --  I 
>>> didn't
>>> want a prospective employer to think they'd have to pay $3000  upfront 
>>> for me
>>> to work for them. So I came with all the equipment I needed.  If the
>>> government and the employers are friendlier now and willing to buy
>>> equipment, that is great, but there is something to be said for
>>> independence, when you can get it.
>>> I do think the knfb reader was priced a little high to start with.   I 
>>> bought
>>> it after it was out a year, and it was still over $2000 (if I  remember
>>> correctly).  Since then it has come down to a cell phone app that  runs 
>>> on
>>> many phones and the software is sold separate from the phone.  I  think 
>>> the
>>> price should come down.  For one thing, there is competition in the 
>>> market
>>> now.    And the knfb reader (I discovered one day) surprisingly  doesn't
>>> distinguish case -- so if you snap a picture of a password, it  can't 
>>> tell
>>> you if the letters are capitalized.  I have been lobbying for this  but 
>>> have
>>> met with strong resistance from the developers.  But that's just my 
>>> personal
>>> pet peeve.
>>> But if you want to join my bandwagon we can all lobby for a less 
>>> expensive
>>> product that distinguishes upper and lowercase letters.
>>>
>>> Happy lobbying.
>>> --le
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>> To: <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:19 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe:
>>>
>>> You're crazy! (grin)
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: Tuesday, Feb 2, 2010 21:24:32
>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear list,
>>>>
>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance  from
>>>> your
>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance  after 
>>>> you
>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense  comes
>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>> settle
>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.   But, 
>>>> that's
>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot 
>>>> afford
>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public  attention 
>>>> to
>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or  not 
>>>> you
>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to 
>>>> myself.
>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging 
>>>> software
>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop. 
>>>> Yet, it
>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government 
>>>> contracts
>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a 
>>>> device
>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely  on 
>>>> par
>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>>>
>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's 
>>>> something
>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>>>
>>>> Joe Orozco
>>>>
>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>> crowddd0-comMax Lucado
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>> signature
>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>>>
>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for
>>>> nfbcs:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for 
>>> nfbcs:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for 
>>> nfbcs:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jheim%40math.wisc.edu
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfbcs mailing list
>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for 
>> nfbcs:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nfbcs:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jheim%40math.wisc.edu
>
> 