[nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access

Thu Nov 18 14:56:04 UTC 2010

Web-based applications are all the rage these days.  If you can sell that to 
your employer, you might have an easier time of it. It makes the front-end 
system independent. You don't have to have Microsoft Office or any other 
particular program on your computer. You don't even have to be running 
Windows. All you need is a web browser. So if you can convince your employer 
to go that way, you'd be much better off. The only problem would be that its 
not exactly a no-brainer to learn web programming either. I take it from 
your comments below that your company has a web server. Otherwise, that 
oracle tool wouldn't help you much. If you're not already running a web 
server, then it probably isn't a good idea to try to switch to web forms.

If you can't do web based forms, I would highly recommend you take Steve's 
suggestion and get on the blind pprogrammer's list. I haven't been on that 
list for years because they talked almost entirely about Visual Basic 
programming and I don't do that. But they sure seemed knowledgable.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth Hatch" <bhatch200 at comcast.net>
To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access

> Hello again Steve, it's great to correspond with you again! I would love 
> to
> talk with Microsoft about this, but I haven't found a contact person who
> deals with Accessibility issues. There is no support or email that I could
> find on the www.microsoft.com/enable site. I tried looking on the 
> Microsoft
> Developer site or the MSDN where they have several blogs and articles 
> about
> Accessibility. I emailed someone who did one of the blogs, but my email 
> got
> bounced.
> That is one of the reasons why I'm glad that Robert posted about Access
> originally because I was going to post to this list because I haven't been
> able to find any Accessibility information or tech support though I know
> that the NFBCS has dealt with Microsoft in the past with our convention
> presentations and other matters. I called the Answer Line at the NFB
> Technology Center, but the person I spoke to didn't have any Microsoft
> contact person for Accessibility, nor did Freedom Scientific when I asked,
> and nor has any of the other blind computer people or organizations that I
> have called. I contacted the folks who provided my equipment for work, the
> Computer and Electronics Accommodation Program, the program that provides
> Access Technology to many government agencies, and though the person I 
> spoke
> with agreed with me on the accessibility issues, he didn't have any 
> contact
> information either. Luckily, my boss and colleagues have been wonderful, 
> but
> I'm concerned that I need to find another accessible means of producing 
> this
> database if not with Access. I am trying to teach myself Visual Basic for
> Access so that I could manually program the parts of Access that don't 
> work.
> Unfortunately, JAWS doesn't seem to work very well inside the Visual Basic
> Environment for Access. I am going to installing Microsoft Office 2010 
> this
> weekend to see if that will work better. I've downloaded demonstration
> versions of Oracle 11G and its web component that is supposed to convert
> Access databases into web based forms, as well as Microsoft SQAL Server. 
> If
> anyone has any other suggestions as to how to make Access behave for
> queries, forms, and reports, or if there are other more useable databases
> out there, I would be interested in hearing about them.
> Thank you, again Steve,  for your message.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Beth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Steve Jacobson
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:40 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access
>
> Beth,
>
> I have not had to use Access on the job that much, but from what I've seen 
> I
> agree that it is not that easy to use.  Have you addressed any of your
> difficulties with Microsoft?  Could anyone ever explain how microsoft had
> addressed the missing command from the ribbon?  I know that one problem we
> are starting to see is that Microsoft is starting to use UI Automation
> instead of or in addition to MSAA in their products and screen readers are
> not taking
> advantage of it completely.  The fact is that very, very few of us are
> apparently doing design work in Access.  When you add to the mix that
> corporations
> upgrade slowly, the feedback we give to Microsoft is very slow in coming.
> Access 2003 is commonly used where I work, for example, and Access 2010 is
> out so we're probably not going to get any big changes to 2007.
>
> Still, occasionally we find that there is a way of doing something in
> Microsoft products that is not well documented or is there for another
> reason so goes
> unnoticed.  You might also see if anyone can help on the blind 
> programmer's
> list.  If you don't have that address, I can dig it up.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:06:25 -0700, Beth Hatch wrote:
>
>>Hello Joe, Robert and all,
>>In my opinion, Microsoft Access is still being used, at least by bigger
>>corporations, and where I work, the government. Access is part of the
>>standard configuration for all of the computers on the Air Force base 
>>where
>>I work and although I would love to use something other than Access to
> build
>>the databases I've been assigned to make for my job, it would take a lot 
>>of
>>bureaucratic action and written justification to use any other product for
>>making databases because all of our computers have Microsoft office 2007 
>>as
>>a part of their standard configuration.
>>As a blind person, in my opinion, the accessibility of Access has gotten
>>worse. I now have an open ticket with Freedom Scientific for some issues
>>that I can't do independently such as putting controls like check boxes or
>>combo boxes on a form for example. Access 2003 used to work a bit
>>better--you could put controls in a form by bringing up a tool box using
> the
>>shift-control-b command where you could place the controls on a form and
> set
>>properties for them--but that command is no longer there as it was in
> Access
>>2003. When I spoke to Freedom Scientific about the problems I've been
> having
>>such as the above mentioned forms issue, as well as making queries and
>>reports, I was told that "Microsoft fixed that problem with the ribbon." A
>>response like that made me wonder if anyone at Freedom really tried to use
>>Access 2007 with speech!! I think the screen reader vendors have made 
>>their
>>products work with the most common denominator, they make sure you can
> enter
>>data into a form or table using Access, but not design forms, reports, or
>>complicated queries as a blind person. My cynical side wants to think that
>>perhaps these folks think blind people don't make databases, they only use
>>them. I should say that my only experience with Access 2007 is with JAWS 
>>11
>>and 12, I haven't tried Window-eyes or any other screen readers with
> Access.
>>However, I've made a lot of phone calls and sent several email message to
>>blind folks, and no one can seem to assist me with getting access to work
>>with JAWS, or any other screen reader for that matter.
>>So Robert, to answer your question, I might look into other database
>>products such as File Maker that Joe had mentioned, Oracle, or Microsoft
>>SQLL Server, or MY SQL which is an open source database product.  I'm
>>looking into all of these to see if any of them will help me on the job
>>since if I can make something work, I'm going to have to advocate to be
> able
>>to use it on the job instead of Access. I'm glad we are talking about this
>>issue, since it personally effects my job, and I haven't been able to get
>>any information from anyone with the exception of one technology vendor
> here
>>in New Mexico who spent a lot of time here helping me to try to make it
>>work, and he also agreed with me concerning the lack of information  on 
>>how
>>to make it work better in terms of Accessibility. If you check the
> Microsoft
>>Accessibility web site, all you'll find there are the keyboard shortcuts
> and
>>nothing more about how to make Access work for blind folks, but there is
>>information for the rest of the MS Office 2007 product line since there 
>>are
>>step by step accessibility tutorials on Word, Excel and PowerPoint,  but
> not
>>for Access--so apparently some people, those with Microsoft as well as
>>access technology folks,  may feel blind folks don't need to worry about
>>designing databases in Access.
>>Sorry for the rant, I had meant to post something about this issue 
>>earlier,
>>and Robert and Joe's message about it helped that process along.<smile>
>
>>Beth
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>Of Joe Orozco
>>Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 5:07 PM
>>To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access
>
>>Is anyone using Access these days?  Please don't take this as me bashing
>>your desire in the slightest, but I think Access is something of the
>>red-headed step child in Office.  What about Filemaker Pro?  I'm just
>>putting this out there to ensure you gauge all your options and learn
>>something marketable.  If I'm wrong, please do feel free to correct me so
>>I'll know better.
>
>>Best,
>
>>Joe
>
>>"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>>some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>[mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss
>>Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 6:29 PM
>>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>>Subject: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access
>
>>Hello:
>
>>     I am thinking about taking Microsoft Access 2007. I have
>>JAWS and a braille display. Any suggestions for good reference
>>materials would be appreciated. thank you.
>
>>Regards,
>
>>Robert
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