[nfbcs] Math software

[Mike Freeman]

The software is called a human reader and amanuensis. There is no truly reliable software and hardware available to do what you are asking for at this time. People are working on software based upon Dr. abraham Nemeth's Math-speak to help students transcribe mathematical material such that teachers can understand it but it's not there yet. When manual typewriters were still in use, I developed my own notation such that I could type my answers and my teachers and professors could evaluate my work. Conceivably, this could still be done with a computer but the student still has to dictate or transcribe his/her work from braille into print as described above. 
I taught myself Nemeth code from the manual but, ideally, a VI teacher who knows braille should at least assist with this. I used a Perkins braillewriter to do my work and I still think this is the best way. 
We are a long, long way from software that can help a student teach himself or herself. The Washington State School for the Blind is experimenting with online classes with some success to help with situations such as you describe but a human is still very much involved. 
Incidentally, I went to school before IDEA so often, my parents paid to have texts transcribed into braille. There's still no substitute for real people IMO. 

Mike Freeman
sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2013, at 9:09, <majolls at cox.net> wrote:

> I see I'm getting a LOT of push-back on this topic.  My whole thrust to this topic was to think about putting the power in the student's hand to the extent possible, rather than making the student wait on others to assist.
> 
> I'm not up on the rules and regs regarding what the schools are supposed to do by law (i..e provide large print books, Braille resources).  But that much I figured ... yes accomodations have to be made.  But what does a student do if they have to wait for these resources?  They could fall behind.  And what happens if a student does Braille, but the teacher doesn't ... and there aren't enough trained Braille instructors in a district to go around?  I've heard that's a problem because districts are trying to cut costs and eliminate specialized schools that teach blind students.  So if that's the case, who knows how many qualified teachers for the blind there will be?  Maybe not enough?  I don't know.
> 
> The software I was thinking about would give the student and teacher tools to communicate ... without the teacher having to know Braille (if it was a requirement for the student).  The student could do the assignments, use a Braille device if needed, then have the software translate back to regular text for the teacher.  The Braille instructor wouldn't be obsolete, but if there ever was a time where one was unavailable, the student could perhaps still do the work and the software could back-translate the work to the form the regular teacher could handle if they didn't know Braille (which I have heard is case sometimes).
> 
> The student could also get help from the software to work through the problems.  So if they didn't know how to solve a problem, having the "solution solver" would be helpful so they could ... hopefully ... independently do the homework.  And this software could ... if designed correctly .. allow the teacher to design tests, quizzes, etc.  The teacher simply composes, saves, and the student accesses the material on his or her own terms.  Again, I don't see the braille instructor being replaced ... but the software could help if one wasn't availalbe at the moment.
> 
> I honestly don't see the big beef about this topic.  Isn't the whole thrust of the NFB to encourage students to excel in the STEM curriculum?  Wouldn't it be a good thing to provide them with tools that allow them to succeed independently?  I'm not suggesting that the accomodations that are in place be changed.  I'm just saying ... consider a tool that would give the student some help.  Maybe I'm just wet, but I get a bit excited when I find a way that I can do something I want to do and I don't have to wait on someone else or be dependent because of my vision.  I thought this idea might help a student work on their own and maybe open this subject to them just a bit.
> 
> Maybe I'm just bucking a system that is inflexible and sees such a product as a threat to their existence.  Maybe people really don't want to change the status quo.
> 
> Comments welcome.
> ---- "Hyde wrote: 
>> This is an IEP issue. It also is a good opportunity for self-advocacy. It is required that the text be accessible. Parents and student need to talk to the TVI and the school. Taking the book home is an IEP issue IBID. As much as some schools and some teachers think that software is the solution, it isn't. You can contact me off list, or you can get help from teachers on the teachers and educators' lists.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
>> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 4:39 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Math software
>> 
>> My responses written inline.
>> 
>> I was at our NFB chapter meeting the other night and some of the kids I was chatting with were saying how difficult it is to do math.
>> 
>> I could relate since I remember sitting in class when I had zero technology and couldn't read the board ... you sort of just zone out.
>> 
>> Someone needs to tell the teacher that he/she needs to read what is on the board. If that is not enough, then the students should be allowed to have a notetaker. I did ot have a notetaker in high school, but I did in several of my college classes, particularly the math/science ones.
>> 
>> They told me that some of the schools (high school I believe) don't let you take the book home.  And since they can't see what's going on in the class and can't take the book home, they struggle terribly.
>> 
>> That's ridiculous. Even if that is what the rules are, sometimes acceptions can be made. It's called accommodations.
>> 
>> Also, some were saying even if they could take the book, they couldn't read it, and some said their parents didn't know enough math to help them.
>> Bottom line, math was a huge struggle for these kids.
>> 
>> Why aren't TVIs working with these students to help them find a method of reading/writing math that works for them?
>> 
>> I haven't done any searching, but I was wondering if there are software solutions out there that could allow some of the following: