[nfbcs] Inaccessible training, again

[David Andrews]

Flash can be made accessible -- but it is a lot of work -- and the 
knowledge of how to do it isn't as widely disseminated as that for 
html, pdf, etc.  Also, sometimes problems come from inaccessible 
flash payers too.

Dave

At 01:04 PM 2/12/2013, you wrote:
>I sure wish I had some hints. It seems like Adobe should do more to 
>make flash accessible. On some of my courses they don't even use 
>customary keystrokes we all know. You can't do a list of links 
>because nothing looks like a link. I'm not sure what I will do in my 
>retirement, but I will not mind leaving the daily struggle. As part 
>of the section 508 team here I am really thinking of filing. At the 
>moment I am just dreading my struggle with Pearson Vue to make the 
>accommodations for a Java certification test. Steve, Curtis said you 
>have had some dealings with them. Is that true?
>
>Susie
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:28 PM
>To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Inaccessible training, again
>
>I was thinking about something Steve said.  When there were actual 
>human instructors, I could get them to make things accessible, or at 
>least to try.  I think it's hard for one person to stand next to 
>another and say, "No, I don't care about your problems at all." And, 
>if the trainer was writing on the board, I could ask him or a 
>classmate what was written, usually.  What's so frustrating about 
>these online courses is that, not only are they inaccessible, but I 
>can't find anyone to talk to about it who has the power to do 
>something about it. There's no accountability.
>There doesn't even seem to be anyone who's remotely interested.
>Tracy
>
> > Tracy,
> >
> > Do you know what the software that is being used is called?  I am
> > dealing with a similar problem here and getting nowhere.  I have had a
> > couple of cases where the reason for the course was for me to just
> > press a button to acknowledge I had read some documents that I had
> > read, and the button was not at all accessible.  When I complained,
> > reasonable accommodation was seen to be having a co-worker press the
> > button for me.  That worked in the short run, but what about the long
> > run?  I have had no luck getting the name of a contact outside of my
> > employer which is what I really need to see what can be done.
> > However, in my case, a good deal of the problem is with FLASH.  In one
> > course, the problem was that all buttons that were used in the entire
> > course remained visible to Window-Eyes, JFW and NVDA.  The TAB key
> > even jumped to them.  However most would do nothing when pressed
> > because they were not part of the current window.  There could easily
> > have been 100 unlabeled buttons of which maybe five were active, and
> > the others did not show visually.  I have another set of courses where
> > I figured out that the button that goes to the next frame which has a
> > label of "next" is identified as "Close" by screen readers.  This
> > isn't a problem once I figured it out.  Some of my courses display PDF
> > documents within the course but apparently provide their own
> > inaccessible PDF viewer.  Sometimes I can get these documents
> > separately once I find the person who wrote the course, but it all
> > takes time away from my job.  In short, I'm with you completely but
> > don't really know where to turn.  Adobe will tell us that FLASH can be
> > made accessible and they have all kinds of information as to how to do
> > it.  Developers will tell you that Adobe puts all of the burden on
> > them.  Okay, so I'm venting, too.
> > <smile>  In my case, most courses have been accessible for me where I
> > work until the past couple of years, so I'm seeing the accessibility
> > slipping away.  The problem is that nobody realized that what they had
> > done was accessible because one doesn't complain about something when
> > it works.  In the old days, when there were instructors for classes, I
> > could often get by with taking careful notes and perhaps reading just
> > a little from the material.
> > I might just study a couple of diagrams with the Optacon.  However, we
> > not only don't have instructors any longer, we are required to take
> > many more courses, some for legal documentation purposes.  Some
> > courses are such that I would have to get security clearance for a
> > reader, and the workload is so unpredictable, it isn't a great
> > solution, especially when this wouldn't have to be a problem.  Running
> > into this kind of thing as well as the problems you and I have
> > mentioned with respect to computer update screens, and even what I see
> > as flakiness with screen readers in certain applications just gives
> > one an uneasy feeling about our progress.  There has to be a way to
> > put some pressure on some of these developers, and if we can get our
> > TEACH act passed, it might help in that some of these developers
> > probably develop some on-line courses for higher education.  However,
> > in a large company, this kind of thing is very frustrating.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Steve Jacobson
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Steve Jacobson
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:36:54 -0500, Tracy Carcione wrote:
> >
> >>I was recently assigned some online training at work.  It's always
> >>been inaccessible, but I thought I should give it a try and see if
> >>somehow  they had changed things.  Nope, still inaccessible.
> >>It's so frustrating, because it's almost accessible, except that there
> >>are lots of unlabeled buttons, and, when they ask a question designed
> >>to test my knowledge before moving on, it's displayed as a picture,
> >>with no text.
> >>At which point I'm stuck, and have to stop.
> >>I've complained to Human Resources, to Training, and to some VP in
> >>charge of web-based training.  I just left feedback on the site,
> >>trying to explain the problem.  I really don't know what else to do.
> >>If they  really want me to take this course, they'll have to assign
> >>someone to sit with  me and do it, and the boss doesn't want to do
> >>that.  So I get no training.
> >>I'm not sure what I'd actually learn from the training, but I guess
> >>I'll never know.
> >>And to add insult to injury, right on top of the training website it
> >>says "empowering people".  Well, not blind people.
> >>I'm just venting my frustration, though if anyone has some idea, I'm
> >>open to suggestions.
> >>Tracy