[nfbcs] Inaccessible training, again

Thu Feb 14 17:00:59 UTC 2013

I hope you guys all know there's a non-profit devoted to helping high 
tech workers with accessibility. It is the International Association of 
Visually Impaired Technologists. See www.iavit.org. We've had trouble 
getting anything accomplished because it seems people like to complain 
but seldom want to actually do anything.

The one thing that I'd really like to see get off the ground is the 
committee to contact manufacturers of products high tech professionals 
use to raise their awareness of accessibility and possibly help them 
make their products accessible. I'm talking about things like routers, 
virtualization software, and on-line courses. The NFB does a good job of 
working with companies like Microsoft on making sure things like email 
and spreadsheets are accessible. But nobody talks to Cisco or VMWare. 
That's what IAVIT is for.

Well, that is what it is supposed to be for. So far it's just a dream. 
Some would call it a fantasy.

On 2/14/2013 9:41 AM, Gary Wunder wrote:
> Hello, Steve.  In a large company what you face is frustrating; in a smaller
> company it may well be overwhelming inasmuch as the small company believes
> that it has no leverage to exert over providers.  I think this has to be a
> major topic at our computer science meeting this year.  I know the struggle;
> it wasn't so long ago that I was arguing with the training department about
> whether it would make the effort to use accessible software or would pay
> someone to sit with me, do the reading, and press the buttons.  I did not
> feel comfortable with the latter solution, but it was the most immediate one
> at hand, and I think it does comply with the Americans With Disabilities
> Act.  Of course the problem is that you can only do so much of this without
> being regarded as a burden by the people with whom you work and the people
> who supervise you.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:09 AM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Inaccessible training, again
>
> Tracy,
>
> Do you know what the software that is being used is called?  I am dealing
> with a similar problem here and getting nowhere.  I have had a couple of
> cases where the reason for the course was for me to just press a button to
> acknowledge I had read some documents that I had read, and the button was
> not at all accessible.  When I complained, reasonable accommodation was seen
> to be having a co-worker press the button for me.  That worked in the short
> run, but what about the long run?  I have had no luck getting the name of a
> contact outside of my employer which is what I really need to see what can
> be done.  However, in my case, a good deal of the problem is with FLASH.  In
> one course, the problem was that all buttons that were used in the entire
> course remained visible to Window-Eyes, JFW and NVDA.  The TAB key even
> jumped to them.  However most would do nothing when pressed because they
> were not part of the current window.  There could easily have been 100
> unlabeled buttons of which maybe five were active, and the others did not
> show visually.  I have another set of courses where I figured out that the
> button that goes to the next frame which has a label of "next" is identified
> as "Close" by screen readers.  This isn't a problem once I figured it out.
> Some of my courses display PDF documents within the course but apparently
> provide their own inaccessible PDF viewer.  Sometimes I can get these
> documents separately once I find the person who wrote the course, but it all
> takes time away from my job.  In short, I'm with you completely but don't
> really know where to turn.  Adobe will tell us that FLASH can be made
> accessible and they have all kinds of information as to how to do it.
> Developers will tell you that Adobe puts all of the burden on them.  Okay,
> so I'm venting, too.
> <smile>  In my case, most courses have been accessible for me where I work
> until the past couple of years, so I'm seeing the accessibility slipping
> away.  The problem is that nobody realized that what they had done was
> accessible because one doesn't complain about something when it works.  In
> the old days, when there were instructors for classes, I could often get by
> with taking careful notes and perhaps reading just a little from the
> material.  I might just study a couple of diagrams with the Optacon.
> However, we not only don't have instructors any longer, we are required to
> take many more courses, some for legal documentation purposes.  Some courses
> are such that I would have to get security clearance for a reader, and the
> workload is so unpredictable, it isn't a great solution, especially when
> this wouldn't have to be a problem.  Running into this kind of thing as well
> as the problems you and I have mentioned with respect to computer update
> screens, and even what I see as flakiness with screen readers in certain
> applications just gives one an uneasy feeling about our progress.  There has
> to be a way to put some pressure on some of these developers, and if we can
> get our TEACH act passed, it might help in that some of these developers
> probably develop some on-line courses for higher education.  However, in a
> large company, this kind of thing is very frustrating.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:36:54 -0500, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>
>> I was recently assigned some online training at work.  It's always been
>> inaccessible, but I thought I should give it a try and see if somehow
>> they had changed things.  Nope, still inaccessible.
>> It's so frustrating, because it's almost accessible, except that there
>> are lots of unlabeled buttons, and, when they ask a question designed
>> to test my knowledge before moving on, it's displayed as a picture, with no
> text.
>> At which point I'm stuck, and have to stop.
>> I've complained to Human Resources, to Training, and to some VP in
>> charge of web-based training.  I just left feedback on the site, trying
>> to explain the problem.  I really don't know what else to do.  If they
>> really want me to take this course, they'll have to assign someone to
>> sit with me and do it, and the boss doesn't want to do that.  So I get no
> training.
>> I'm not sure what I'd actually learn from the training, but I guess
>> I'll never know.
>> And to add insult to injury, right on top of the training website it
>> says "empowering people".  Well, not blind people.
>> I'm just venting my frustration, though if anyone has some idea, I'm
>> open to suggestions.
>> Tracy
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfbcs mailing list
>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nfbcs:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40vis
>> i.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jheim%40math.wisc.edu
>