[nfbcs] Inaccessiable Training - again

Mon Feb 18 19:36:08 UTC 2013

John,

Oh, I hear you, man! That being able to whip out the resume, send it off 
to the folks you've decided you want to work for and start work Monday 
is not to be undervalued! Suddenly finding that you are no longer a 
bright, talented, experienced, educated, etc., etc., asset but a poor 
blind fool thinking anybody is going to give you a job... Well, maybe if 
they need to fill a quota, they might let you come to work...

So I just got really cheery about having moved out to the sticks where 
there just aren't jobs to even worry about often, just so I don't have 
to hear that when I'm figuring out if one is worth applying for. Then 
again, it would be nice now and then to have a chance worth finding out 
whether I'm going to get to deal with direct discrimination.

Those are options one who can go through life without the constant 
companionship of a long white cane do not have to face. Well, that 
applies to other tools and badges of disability, as well. But since 
we're specifically discussing issues related to blindness, we'll stick 
with what we all know too well.

One thing that keeps popping into my head while mulling over the concept 
of communicating advantages of accessible design is that overcoming low 
expectations of blindness is still a major jumping off point. Well, I'm 
rephrasing that well-worn phrase for myself into something more along 
the lines of stressing the value of a disabled worker commensurate with 
that of any employee.

In other words, I'm not asking you to give me a job. I'm offering you an 
opportunity to hire me for my brains and skill and work ethic. I'm not 
asking you to buy me a bunch of special stuff to make me feel more 
useful. I'm discussing what I need to *be* more useful to you, the boss, 
the company. You get some tax break for some of it, and you also get 
more out of little old me for what you're paying me! Well, take all the 
first person out that I just used for brevity. /smle/

Which reminds me that I need to get back to my efforts to be gainfully 
self-employed, or the boss is going to fire me!

Tami

On 02/18/2013 09:12 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
> But it's not true that life is unfair for everyone.  The vast majority
> of people never have to overcome a challenge like blindness.
>
> This was driven home to me a few years ago when I wanted to change jobs.
> Until I went blind, I had never been turned down for a job I'd
> interviewed for. I mean that literally. Since I got my degree, I had
> never been turned down after interviewing for a job. Sometimes I had
> several offers at once but I had never been turned down. The
> discrimination I faced after I went blind came as quite a shock to me. I
> couldn't believe the way most people paid way, way more attention to my
> disability than my resume. One woman outright refused to interview me
> because she didn't believe I could use a computer at all. And that was
> for a job that was, frankly, beneath me. Of course, I just passed that
> woman off as an idiot. But if I had really needed that job, that would
> have hurt.
>
> In my opinion, this lack of empathy those of us who have made it show
> toward those who have not is a huge problem. I think it greatly
> undermines our ability to get anything done. My opinion is that those of
> us who have made it are obligated to try to make it easier for the next
> guy. After all, oour paths were smoothed by those who came before us. I
> can show you messages where I've criticized kenneth Jernigan
> tremendously. I have huge problems with a lot of things he said and did.
> But there is no question that none of us would be where we are without
> him and one heck of a lot of other people like him.
>
> On 2/17/2013 5:59 PM, david hertweck wrote:
>> You are 100% correct, but this is true for every one regardless if they
>> have a handicap or not.
>> Who ever said life is fare or even should be fare.  It is a matter of
>> how much do we want to have a job.
>> I get what you are saying it makes me very angry when it is such a pain
>> to access something that is trivial for a sighted person.
>>
>> One of the ideas I am playing with is how to show companies how they can
>> make a larger profit by making their products accessible.  Requiring
>> this by law only gets you so far.
>>
>> Another idea there seams to be a large amount of talent on this list, if
>> some one has an need lets jointly try and solve it.
>>
>> thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim
>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 4:12 PM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Inaccessiable Training - again
>>
>>
>> I don't mean to question the value of the advice given below. It's all
>> true, of course. But lets not start blaming blind people for
>> accessibility problems. The truth is that to compete against sighted
>> people, you often have to be even more mentally tough and work harder
>> than they do. But lets face it, that's not really fair.
>> And there is another side to this, you can do everything right and still
>> fail. You might work your tail off establishing a career and then if the
>> vendors of technology products you use make them inaccessible, well you
>> are screwed.
>>
>> I would never question the value of tips on how a blind person can be
>> the perfect employee. That is one necessary ingredient in building a
>> successful career. You can't succeed without doing the thngs listed
>> below. But they don't guarantee success.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2013, at 8:07 PM, Gabe Vega Via Iphone4S wrote:
>>
>>> Hell yeah! This post states everything I think. And I believe this is
>>> what blind people forget all the time. Maybe you all should read this
>>> over and over and over again. Thank you for this post.
>>>
>>> Gabe Vega
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> (623) 565-9357
>>>
>>> On Feb 15, 2013, at 6:45 PM, "david hertweck"
>>> <david.hertweck at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As a blind engineer and now a manager working for a large company I
>>>> found the best approach is:
>>>> 1. Try and find a way to do your job, be creative, think out of the
>>>> box, make it work.
>>>> 2. Put in extra hours.  I know a lot of sighted engineers if they are
>>>> not as effective as other people they put in the extra time so we
>>>> should be willing to do this.
>>>> 3. Remember everyone has tasks to complete and completing yours can
>>>> not interfere with others.
>>>> 4. Before asking for help have an exact plan for how can that person
>>>> help you.  What does not work is to ask someone to make "X"
>>>> accessible for you.
>>>> 5. Never "complain" find answers. It is super to "complain" in this
>>>> forum but not at work.
>>>> 6. Always remember your manager most likely has more work and
>>>> certainly more responsibilities than you do, so you should never add
>>>> to them for accessibility problems.
>>>> 7. Always remember you are there for the company not the company for
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> through out my work life
>>>> and now as a manager of course they are not overwellming
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: majolls at cox.net
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 10:50 AM
>>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Inaccessiable Training - again
>>>>
>>>> Gary and all
>>>>
>>>> I think you hit the nail on the head.  To what end do you
>>>> "complain"?  If you don't, you don't get anywhere.  And if you do
>>>> (too much) you are perceived as a burden ... and managers would
>>>> rather not deal with you and get someone else that doesn't have the
>>>> requirement that you do.  I work for a large corporation.  I found
>>>> that while managers can be sympathetic, others just don't care.  it
>>>> really depends on your luck of the draw regarding what manager you do
>>>> get.
>>>>
>>>> I can remember voicing concern about sitting in a large room for a
>>>> presentation where they had big monitors up on the wall.  A presenter
>>>> would be running his demo, and the display was up on the "big
>>>> screen". Unfortunately, I couldn't read the big screen.  I was just
>>>> too far away and I'm just too blind.  When I voiced concern, what I
>>>> mostly got was "just do your best" ... which was absolutely no help.
>>>> I finally came up with the idea ... "just run a data feed to a
>>>> separate monitor that can be placed on a table that I can sit close
>>>> to".  That idea really worked, but it took me ... not them ... to
>>>> come up with the idea.  The managers ... who are supposed to help you
>>>> ... didn't have a clue what I needed, or what might work.  And, if I
>>>> complained too much, they just said ... "do your best" and sort of
>>>> turned a deaf ear.
>>>>
>>>> And as far as going to bat for you ... trying to get the application
>>>> changed so it's accessible ... I think most managers have priorities
>>>> on what they have to get done.  When you require someone to sit with
>>>> you (meaning time and money) or when you ask your manager to help you
>>>> ... they'll do it as long as it isn't excessive ... meaning as long
>>>> as it doesn't take a lot of time and money.  If it does, you're kind
>>>> of on your own.  And as far as them modifying software to be
>>>> accessible ... that's only an option if your company doesn't have a
>>>> lot of other "business requirements" they have to get done first.
>>>> Where I'm at, that's always the case.
>>>>
>>>> I guess we all just need to be experts on Accessibility programming
>>>> so we can do it ourselves.  Wish I had better things to say, but I've
>>>> only had 35 years of experience in dealing with this.  And it doesn't
>>>> sound like the federal government is any better than private
>>>> industry.  People (managers) are people no matter where you go I
>>>> suppose.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
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