[nfbcs] {Spam?} Re: Trade schools

Tue Mar 26 16:57:03 UTC 2013

Thanks very much.  I'll pass this on to him.  It will be encouraging for
him to see he's on the right track, starting with the community college. 
Also, he was questioning why he needed all that math and stuff, and you've
explained that very well.
Tracy

> When I saw your post I HAD to reply.
>
> As has been stated in previous posts, those who want to get into the CS
> field and already have another degree can likely supplement their degree
> with specific training in the CS field.  There's probably no need to take
> another full 120 hours you'd get from an undergraduate degree.
>
> But, for those that do not have a degree yet (I'm assuming this about the
> young blind man who wants to get into the field), I think the 4 year route
> is probably the best.  And that could include the 2-year community college
> pre-work to get your basic education completed and then complete your BS
> degree by transferring to a 4 year university.
>
> However, I would NOT recommend going to a trade school for training.  Let
> me cite a couple of examples regarding people I personally knew who did
> this.
>
> One person went to a trade school named Vatterott "college".  I use the
> term loosly.  You hear their commercials in St. Louis  ... "Get the
> knowledge ... get the job ... in and out in 16 months".  This person I
> worked with professionally.  She was a Visual Basic programmer but her
> knowledge was a bit lacking.  One day she was having a problem where she
> was trying to store a very large positive (non-negative) value in a
> variable in a program.  When she displayed the value, the positive value
> she loaded was displayed as a negative number.  She couldn't understand
> why this was happening.  I can recall in my training many years ago at a 4
> year college that we talked about how numbers are stored and why values
> are negative and positive.  This is basic basic basic information that any
> qualified person should know.  The fact that she didn't know made me
> question the quality of her education.  There were other problems that she
> ran into that, again, should have been common knowledge
>  if she had a thorough basic education.  I had to wonder what they were
> teaching at these places.
>
> The other person was my brother-in-law.  He was between a rock and a hard
> place financially and really needed to make a career change so he could
> start making more money.  He wanted to go into computers so he chose a
> place called "Sanford Brown College".  Again, I use the term loosely as
> it's essentially a trade school.  They advertise the same way as
> Vatterrott.  I went on interviews with him at the "colleges" he was
> looking at to see if what they were saying was reasonable.  I listened to
> their admissions counselors.  They told him they only concentrated on the
> subject he was interested in and didn't require any Math or English.   I
> warned him that there was a reason why the 4 year college degrees had a
> concentration of 9 or 10 classes in computers, plus the requirements for
> Math and English.  You really need to take those courses for a well
> rounded education.  English .. I use it all the time when communicating.
> Math ... you need a good foundation for writing formulas in
>  your programming.  And the computer classes .. well there's really enough
> to learn there to take you a couple of years in just that discipline.  He
> was so hard-up and between a rock and a hard place that all he could see
> was "get in and out in 16 months and get the job!!".  He bought into
> their advertising and paid $25,000 for what he could have gotten at the
> Jr. College for probably $6,000.  Yes, it would have taken 4 years of
> night school, but he would have taken the other courses in math and such,
> and gotten a better education.  Plus, we found out later that the credits
> that he earned there ARE NOT transferrable to a regular 4 year
> university.  When he got out, he realized that they had taught him a very
> abbreviated curriculum and he told me that if he met anybody who was
> thinking about going to one of these "trade schools" he would tell them
> to run for their life.
>
> One final thing.  Where I work, they absolutely require a 4 year degree in
> computer science to get a job in the IT department.  Perhaps all companies
> don't require this, but if a young person is thinking about getting into
> the field, I'd say go for the 4 year degree if for no other reason that
> you have the "sheepskin" and you're covered for those companies that
> require it.
>
> So, to summarize
> 1. They're overpriced
> 2. They don't give you the same level of education you get at the Jr.
> College or University
> 3. You may not receive all the knowledge you need for the job when you get
> out.
> 4. Credits don't transer.
>
> You might say ... "well that's your opinion".  But I would reply ... why
> take the chance on getting taken to the cleaners?  You're really playing
> with fire here and your future.  These are serious allegations I'm putting
> forth here.
>
> I say .. "where there's smoke, there's probably fire".  Avoid them.  Get
> the accredited education.  Knowing what I do about these places, I can't
> recommend them.  From what I've seen, they prey upon people that want to
> change their lives, need to get it done fast, etc ...  if you're pursuing
> a job in computer science, you need the quality education that at the very
> least Jr. College offers.  But I'd vote for the 4-year route.  It's served
> me very well over the past 35 years in industry.
>
>
> ---- Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>> Pursuant to our discussion a few weeks ago about whether a 4-year CS
>> degree is required to find employment, I wonder about the results from
>> trade schools.  I hear ads for many places that say they will teach a
>> person programming.  Are any of them worthwhile?
>> I am trying to advise a young blind man who wants to get into
>> programming.
>>  My first piece of advice was that he should join this list, where he
>> will
>> get lots of different perspectives.  He's thinking he'll go to a
>> community
>> college, then get a 4-year CS degree.  Sounds fine.  But, with the huge
>> cost of 4-year colleges these days, I was wondering if he might do
>> equally
>> well, and be less in debt, if he went the trade school route. Or is that
>> all a huge scam?
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
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