[nfbcs] Trade schools

[John G. Heim]

Well, you can't say for sure.  A professor once said to me that students 
are the only consumers who try to get as little as possible for their 
money. True that. But there is no way this guy was just trying to slide 
by. He was completely befuddled when I told him that  he should have 
learned about  loops  in school. I work for the University of Wisconsin 
and we try very hard to identify  students who are deliberately trying 
to avoid learning anything. Admittedly, some people probably slip 
through. But a school should not be giving out degrees to people who are 
just trying to get the diploma  without learning anything.  They can 
kick them out. That's fine with me. But they shouldn't give them a diploma.

I don't believe for one second that this guy was trying to slide 
through. But even if he was, the school is obligated to try to identify 
him and kick him out. They shouldn't have given him a degree.

On 03/27/2013 12:38 PM, Dr. Denise M Robinson wrote:
> I am not sure you can completely blame the school...you said it John....you
> get out what you put in.......you can go to the same school and someone
> learn a lot and another not.....
> Denise
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:16 PM, John G. Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>> By trade school do you mean for-profit tech schools  like the University
>> of Phoenix   or Upper Iowa University? I think state-sponsored technical
>> colleges are okay. But I have a story about the for-profit places.
>>
>> A few years ago, I talked the owner of the small consulting business I was
>> working for into contacting my state's Department of Vocational Rehab and
>> having them send over someone to fill a vacancy. They sent over a
>> middle-aged man who had lost his voice in a car accident and therefore had
>> lost his job as a salesman. This man had gone back to school at one of
>> these for-profit tech schools for a degree in computer programming. On his
>> first day, I gave him an assignment and came back a few hours later to see
>> how he was doing. He hadn't even gotten started. He didn't know how to get
>> started. So I figured it was my mistake and I'd given too difficult of an
>> assignment. So I gave him an easier one. When I came back a while later, he
>> hadn't gotten started on that either. So I asked him to write a program
>> counting from one to ten. Just display the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,
>> 9, and 10.  He couldn't do that either. He was fired before the day was
>> done.
>>
>> It was heartbreaking. He already had to deal with the accident and it's
>> aftermat. Now he was going to have to come to grips with the knowledge that
>> the effort he'd put into putting his life back together  was wasted.  I
>> have no idea what happened to him but I only hope he somehow managed to
>> pick himself up off the mat one more time and give it another try.
>>
>> There was no way I could excuse or even hide his lack of knowledge. It was
>> embarrassing for me but mostly I just felt bad for the guy. And it was bad
>> for Voc Rehab because there was no way my company was ever going to work
>> with them again.
>>
>> I talked to the guy toward the end of the day abouthow his lessons worked.
>> It sounded pretty much like a normal classroom situation. He sat through
>> lectures, got assignments, tests. It was unclear how he managed to pass
>> without learning anything. Honestly, I  wanted to tell him that he should
>> demand his money back.
>>
>> I always say that life is like a vending machine, you don't get anything
>> out of it unless you put something in. Maybe the school worked that way. I
>> know the guy didn't deliberately avoid learning anything. But maybe he
>> didn't try very hard either. But I do not think that is what happened. I
>> think he was ripped off. I think the school was just a scam to seperate
>> particularly vulnerable people from their money.
>>
>> On 03/26/2013 09:38 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>
>>> Pursuant to our discussion a few weeks ago about whether a 4-year CS
>>> degree is required to find employment, I wonder about the results from
>>> trade schools.  I hear ads for many places that say they will teach a
>>> person programming.  Are any of them worthwhile?
>>> I am trying to advise a young blind man who wants to get into programming.
>>>    My first piece of advice was that he should join this list, where he
>>> will
>>> get lots of different perspectives.  He's thinking he'll go to a community
>>> college, then get a 4-year CS degree.  Sounds fine.  But, with the huge
>>> cost of 4-year colleges these days, I was wondering if he might do equally
>>> well, and be less in debt, if he went the trade school route. Or is that
>>> all a huge scam?
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
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