[nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
Peter Donahue
pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
Sun Jan 17 19:17:47 UTC 2016
Hello Mike and everyone,
And it took twisting the arms of NFB members to get resolutions
passed to keep Apple on its toes. I was at several national conventions
when resolutions concerning Apple's commitment to accessibility failed
to pass but were later adopted.
All the apps we've used thus far pretty much work out-of-the-box
with Voiceover and Siri. This doesn't mean that we'll draw a few bad
ones now and then. In addition to there being no need to pay for
Voiceover upgrades many Apple Apps cost far less than Windows Apps.
Imagine our surprise when we discovered that iWork, Apple's answer to
Microsoft Office cost only $30.00 compared to MS Office thich can run as
high as $500.00 if not more with limits on the number of machines it can
run on. We were told that we could install iWork on all of our Apple
devices at no additional charge for licensing.
One of the App suites we use has minor accessibility issues such as
the names of content listings not being read as such but their name will
be spoken once a particular entry has been selected. We had a chance to
meet with this software developer last October and pointed out this
issue to them. They took video of us using their software with Voiceover
to show to their entire team that work on this particular software suite
for iOS 9 and oSX 10 (El Capitan.) I have subsequent discussion with the
project manager who assured us that upgrades to this software suite will
include enhanced Voiceover functionality and the integration of Siri.
They have lots of users with Apple TV and want to be able to controll it
via voice hende the need to add Siri integration.
Another one of our team members who is also blind began using this
same suite with little trouble. I'm not sure if any Apple users have
encountered this issue but in the messaging App in this Suite Voiceover
works with it but the audio is coming out of the ear piece instead of
the iPhone Speaker when the iPhone is not held up to one's ear. We're
not sure if this is an app issue or if a setting needs to be changed in
this person's iPhone.
While our experience has been very positive with Apple's products
we never said there wouldn't be rough waters to navigate. It's just that
in the Apple environment there aren't many of the kind of issues we've
had to deal with in Windows. We know several other blind individuals
that are in the process of migrating from Windows to Apple due to many
of the same issues. For some of us you get to a point after while when
enough is enough where Windows and it's screen reading solutions are
concerned particularly when you want to spend your money on working to
secure your current lifestyle and enhance it instead of having to pay
for upgrades and additional copies of screen reading software for
Windows and having to deal with the Windows querks including that
annoying "Get Windows 10" pop-up we're all getting tired of by now. If
Apple puts more support on accessibility and improves on what it has
done in the past more blind people could be making the switch in the
coming years unless Microsoft and others in the Windows arena play some
serious catch-up.
Peter Donahue
Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
> Peter:
>
> Apple has its own problem and is not guilt-free in the accessibility area.
>
> The *real* problem we as blind persons have is that we are a minority within
> society and seldom have the financial and/or legal power to make what we
> need stick.
>
> I'm not saying we shouldn't work on things but merely that Apple is also
> slipping as apps become more complex.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:25 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Peter Donahue
> Subject: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>
>
> Good morning everyone,
>
> If Microsoft would do with its Windows screen reader what Apple has
> done with the MAC and its iDevices perhaps we would have fewer issues with
> compatibility and accessibility tools could be kept up-to-date more easily
> and with little to no cost. Perhaps some MAC and iOS users could weigh in on
> this issue with the petition and share their experiences with accessing it
> under iOS and oSX. Perhaps in another few years we'll be 100% Mac and iOS
> users in this house-hold.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher
> Chaltain via nfbcs
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:35 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Cc: Christopher Chaltain
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] NVDA and JAWS [was "Re: Petition Asking President Obama
> To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations"]
>
> The idea that anything that's three years old is antiquated is incorrect.
> I'm sure quite a few people on this list are using Office2013 or Office 2010
> if not something older. Microsoft and many companies support products for
> more than three years. People used Windows XP for ten years and beyond.
>
> I never saw anything on this list that the problem accessing this petition
> has to do with the version of JAWS being used. I get the impression that
> people using more recent versions of JAWS are experiencing the same problem.
> In other words, I didn't see anything in this thread that JAWS 13 can't do
> the job and can't be used affectively for all sorts of tasks. It seems to me
> that people are just jumping to conclusions and using this message to make a
> point rather than help a JAWS user solve their problem and submit this
> petition.
>
> Obviously, I can't tell people what words they can and cannot use, but I
> think information can be provided in a more sympathetic tone. I'm sure most
> people running JAWS 13 would like to upgrade, and they don't need to have
> their faces rubbed in the fact that they can't afford an update.
> No one may have intended to make anyone feel bad but communication is a two
> way street, and people need to take into account not just how their words
> are intended but how they may be received.
>
> On 16/01/16 22:08, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs wrote:
>> The unfortunate reality is that you simply *can't* do everything with one
> screen reader. There's certainly no reason not to have more than one if you
> can afford one, because NVDA is free software. Both definitions of free.
> Window-Eyes is even no cost if you have Office 2010 or newer.
>> The other unfortunate reality is that Jaws 13.0 *is* antiquated, and that
> isn't meant to make anyone feel bad, it's just a fact. You really can't use
> a three year old version of anything and expect it to behave correctly with
> something that's newer. It just isn't realistic.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I agree that it's good to have NVDA in your tool box regardless of what
> version of JAWS you're running, but it isn't always possible for people to
> keep up with a product like JAWS, and using two different screen readers can
> be frustrating. I think it's OK to suggest JAWS, but there's no need to make
> anyone feel bad by calling the tools they can afford to use "antiquated".
>>> On 16/01/16 15:18, Jude DaShiell via nfbcs wrote:
>>>> This is why when jaws users know they're not going to be able to
>>>> update jaws it's a good idea to have installed nvda to do the jobs
>>>> their antiquated version of jaws can no longer do.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 16:03:52
>>>>> From: Mike Freeman via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>>
>>>>> excess ability does not imply backward compatibility. Your version
>>>>> of jaws is several versions out of date. I suspect it may be part
>>>>> of the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 12:52, Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs
>>>>>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit
>>>>>> button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the
>>>>>> num pad, nothing happens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>>>>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Cc: Curtis Chong
>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>> launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling
>>>>>> on the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited
>>>>>> ADA internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the Americans
>>>>>> with Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said
>>>>>> that he would issue regulations implementing the requirement for
>>>>>> accessible websites, noting that they would be "the most important
>>>>>> updates to the ADA since its original enactment."
>>>>>> President Obama now says that the regulations will not be released
>>>>>> until 2018, after he leaves office.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it
>>>>>> impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or
>>>>>> conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers need
>>>>>> guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that
>>>>>> guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
>>>>>> expressed commitment to civil rights.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you
>>>>>> are), point your browser to this link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus
>>>>>> tice-promp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users
>>>>>> running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign"
>>>>>> button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions
>>>>>> to help mitigate that problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad
>>>>>> Minus), and
>>>>>> pressing the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign"
>>>>>> button will be selected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the
> Mozilla
>>>>>> Firefox browser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such
>>>>>> as the iPad or iPhone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Curtis Chong, President
>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>> --
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> me
>>
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>>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
>
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