[nfbcs] Leading by Example

Peter Donahue pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
Sun Jan 17 20:28:33 UTC 2016 

Hello John and everyone,

	This is another example of the NFB shooting itself in the foot. If
organizations like the NFB believe the blind can compete on terms of
equality why isn't it developing model applications and productivity
platforms and promoting their use so all persons including the blind can
have access to the Internet and software for various platforms. For God
sakes we have a STEM initive why not give those kids something to do such as
involving them in such projects. This is a hell of a lot better than using
Web platforms that later prove to be problematic for blind users when a
petition needs to be signed for example. It's one thing to tell someone how
applications and Web resources can be made accessible but quite another to
show them by developing model applications and Websites and promoting their
use by the general public. It's called leading by example.

Peter Donahue



-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim via
nfbcs
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 1:25 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Cc: John G. Heim
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens

Mike, you have been singing this same tune for 20 years now. It's inaccurate
and counter productive. Your defeatist attitude has done a lot of harm over
the years. Progress continues, no thanks to people like you. Voiceover
exists because Apple had to have a screen reader to sell computers to high
schools, colleges, and universities. We have improvements to the ADA, a
statement by the Department of Justice that it applies to web sites, and the
21VACC. Yet, in spite of all this, every chance you get you reiterate how
powerless we are.

The first step in winning any fight is believing you can. Please stop
telling us we can't win.


On 01/17/2016 10:46 AM, Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
> Peter:
>
> Apple has its own problem and is not guilt-free in the accessibility area.
>
> The *real* problem we as blind persons have is that we are a minority
within
> society and seldom have the financial and/or legal power to make what we
> need stick.
>
> I'm not saying we shouldn't work on things but merely that Apple is also
> slipping as apps become more complex.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:25 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Peter Donahue
> Subject: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>
>
> Good morning everyone,
>
> 	If Microsoft would do with its Windows screen reader what Apple has
> done with the MAC and its iDevices perhaps we would have fewer issues with
> compatibility and accessibility tools could be kept up-to-date more easily
> and with little to no cost. Perhaps some MAC and iOS users could weigh in
on
> this issue with the petition and share their experiences with accessing it
> under iOS and oSX. Perhaps in another few years we'll be 100% Mac and iOS
> users in this house-hold.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher
> Chaltain via nfbcs
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:35 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Cc: Christopher Chaltain
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] NVDA and JAWS [was "Re: Petition Asking President
Obama
> To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations"]
>
> The idea that anything that's three years old is antiquated is incorrect.
> I'm sure quite a few people on this list are using Office2013 or Office
2010
> if not something older. Microsoft and many companies support products for
> more than three years. People used Windows XP for ten years and beyond.
>
> I never saw anything on this list that the problem accessing this petition
> has to do with the version of JAWS being used. I get the impression that
> people using more recent versions of JAWS are experiencing the same
problem.
> In other words, I didn't see anything in this thread that JAWS 13 can't do
> the job and can't be used affectively for all sorts of tasks. It seems to
me
> that people are just jumping to conclusions and using this message to make
a
> point rather than help a JAWS user solve their problem and submit this
> petition.
>
> Obviously, I can't tell people what words they can and cannot use, but I
> think information can be provided in a more sympathetic tone. I'm sure
most
> people running JAWS 13 would like to upgrade, and they don't need to have
> their faces rubbed in the fact that they can't afford an update.
> No one may have intended to make anyone feel bad but communication is a
two
> way street, and people need to take into account not just how their words
> are intended but how they may be received.
>
> On 16/01/16 22:08, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs wrote:
>> The unfortunate reality is that you simply *can't* do everything with one
> screen reader. There's certainly no reason not to have more than one if
you
> can afford one, because NVDA is free software. Both definitions of free.
> Window-Eyes is even no cost if you have Office 2010 or newer.
>> The other unfortunate reality is that Jaws 13.0 *is* antiquated, and that
> isn't meant to make anyone feel bad, it's just a fact. You really can't
use
> a three year old version of anything and expect it to behave correctly
with
> something that's newer. It just isn't realistic.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I agree that it's good to have NVDA in your tool box regardless of what
> version of JAWS you're running, but it isn't always possible for people to
> keep up with a product like JAWS, and using two different screen readers
can
> be frustrating. I think it's OK to suggest JAWS, but there's no need to
make
> anyone feel bad by calling the tools they can afford to use "antiquated".
>>> On 16/01/16 15:18, Jude DaShiell via nfbcs wrote:
>>>> This is why when jaws users know they're not going to be able to
>>>> update jaws it's a good idea to have installed nvda to do the jobs
>>>> their antiquated version of jaws can no longer do.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 16:03:52
>>>>> From: Mike Freeman via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>>      JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>>
>>>>> excess ability does not imply backward compatibility. Your version
>>>>> of jaws is several versions out of date. I suspect it may be part
>>>>> of the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 12:52, Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs
>>>>>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit
>>>>>> button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the
>>>>>> num pad, nothing happens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>>>>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Cc: Curtis Chong
>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>> launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling
>>>>>> on the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited
>>>>>> ADA internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the Americans
>>>>>> with Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said
>>>>>> that he would issue regulations implementing the requirement for
>>>>>> accessible websites, noting that they would be "the most important
>>>>>> updates to the ADA since its original enactment."
>>>>>> President Obama now says that the regulations will not be released
>>>>>> until 2018, after he leaves office.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it
>>>>>> impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or
>>>>>> conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers need
>>>>>> guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that
>>>>>> guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
>>>>>> expressed commitment to civil rights.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you
>>>>>> are), point your browser to this link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus
>>>>>> tice-promp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users
>>>>>> running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign"
>>>>>> button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions
>>>>>> to help mitigate that problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.            Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad
>>>>>> Minus), and
>>>>>> pressing  the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign"
>>>>>> button will be selected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.            Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the
> Mozilla
>>>>>> Firefox browser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such
>>>>>> as the iPad or iPhone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Curtis Chong, President
>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> om
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> .com
>>>>>
>>> --
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfbcs mailing list
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>>> me
>>
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>>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
>
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