[nfbcs] Research

David Tseng davidct1209 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 23 16:12:12 UTC 2017 

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 7:05 AM, John Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
I don't think you can make generalizations based on the size of the school.
You can run into an uncooperative instructor anywhere. It can even depend
on who happens to be chair of the department at the time. If you run into
an uncooperative instructor, is the department chair or dean of students
going to care? Some do and some don't. I have heard stories from students
at other institutions that would shock any instructor here at the
University of Wisconsin.


I don't think I generalized. My first sentence was it highly depends on the
university. When the course work is using inaccessible platforms to teach
or when the alternative is to have a freshman learn an entirely different
toolchain or workflow, it does seem to be problematic. This is when the
pace of undergraduate course loads starts at day one (first semester).
There's really no wiggle room unless you plan on staying in undergrad for 6
years.


I can agree with your point about the competition though. I used to give a
mini-course on latex at the beginning of each school year. But fewer and
fewer people came to it and we finally stopped doing it. Kids come in
already knowing latex or they have to pick it up on their own. I'm glad I'm
not a student any more. The amount of partying I did would never cut it
these days.

Yes. Didn't do too much of that :).







On 02/23/2017 12:28 AM, David Tseng via nfbcs wrote:
When it comes down to it, the experience imo, depends on the university.

In a big research university, say top 50 in the country, the emphasis is on
a fairly challenging course load. The profile of the typical freshman
undergrad is someone who has been coding for quite some time, has
familiarity with a *nix environment, and is capable of picking up major
topics at each lecture (two or three times a week). Classes are typically
large; say ~100-200. Professors are extremely brilliant, which also means
they go fast. Peers are at the top of their game. CS tends to attract
students who exceled in high school. These are kids who took multi variable
calculus, discrete math, and linear algebra before even graduating high
school.

While in undergrad, I spoke with plenty of sighted kids who found the
experience daunting :).

If you want a taste, you can "preview" much of the lower division classes
from Berkeley. CS61A, for example, is the first course and it is a weeder
for just about all students.
I don't think I know many people, including colleagues, who could stand
against the rigorousness of the grading. But, that's why it's a top
program. However, in that environment, even little bit counts and blindness
is a major disadvantage because you are judged against your peers without
having access to 100% of what they've got.

If I had one piece of advice to give, skip the CS undergrad unless you're
in a lower teir school or a university you know well to be student centric
and not heavily weighted towards performance metrics. Get your fancy CS
graduate degree :) at a top teir school. That is a totally different animal
and quite a bit easier imo. I know of many blind professionals who went to
great uni's for their masters/Ph.D's for CS and due to a variety of
factors, they all seem to find the experience better than those who took
the undergrad route.



On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <
nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Amanda,
I have to disagree. I currently have an under grad degree in CS, and I am
working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time as a computer scientist.
There are some issues the blind will experience with technical degrees that
are unique to those degrees, but it's definitely doable.

--
Joe


On 2/22/2017 12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:

I have a CS degree. I cannot in good conscience recommend it to other
blind students unless they accept that they will experience a lot of
hurt. I don't have satisfying answers to most of your questions.

On 2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Hello Andy,
Thank you for your response. Before answering your questions, I will
preface
my response that this project is entirely predicated on ensuring other
blind
students, who may be considering computer science, do not do what I did;
namely, believing that blind people cannot do computer science. Now, your
questions:
(1) No University, community college, or vocational school is funding
this;
this is an assignment that I have received on behalf of the Louisiana
Center
for the Blind (LCB) for my technology class.
(2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno, this past December
with
an Honors B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in logic, metaphysics, and
epistemology.
(3) This guide will serve to educate prospective computer science
students
who are blind. When I was in high school, I was extremely interested in
doing computer science. I was told that blind people could not do
computer
science; mistakenly, I believed this to be true and thus proceeded into
the
liberal arts. If I can provide clarity to other students thinking about
computer science, or elucidate blind students when it comes to the
copasity
of blind people, I would be very happy. As it stands, the only place I
know
for sure this research will end up is the national Association of Blind
Students website, as I sit on the board and can make that happen.
Otherwise,
I have no idea.
(4) This is true. I did not make this anonimis. If people are willing to
answer, I would be very happy, and will of course cite you, or not cite
you,
depending on your permission. If people are not willing to, I totally
understand that as well.
I hope I was able to address your concerns.
For anyone else who wishes to help me out, you can email your responses
to
my email (mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel confortible, just
responding to this thread.
Thank you again for all your attention and time!
Respectfully,
Michael Ausbun
Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada.
Secretary, National Association of blind Students
Student, The Louisiana Center for the Blind


-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B. via
nfbcs
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:24 PM
To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research

I am interested in answering these questions. However, you never
displayed
your credentials or qualifications in the subject. What school is funding
this study? Where did you graduate and with what degree? What do you
intend
on doing with the guide when it is finished? The results of this survey
are
not anonymous. Therefore, people might be hesitant.


-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael via
nfbcs
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM
To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Michael <mausbun at nevada.unr.edu>
Subject: [nfbcs] Research

Hello All:
        My name is Michael Ausbun, and I am currently a student at the
Louisiana
Center for the Blind. I am conducting research, to develop a
comprehensive
guide for prospective computer science students. I would much appreciate
it
if you would take some time and answer the following questions.
        Thank you for your attention in this matter.
Respectfully,
Michael Ausbun

Research questions:
Advocacy:
(1)     What accommodations do you believe were most beneficial to you in
completing your degree?
(2)     What accommodation(s) were necessary when completing visual
components
of one’s degree requirements?
(3)     In what ways have you advocated for the modification of
materials to
ensure equal access for yourself or future computer science students?
(4)     What is the most important question(s) a computer science
student should
ask their instructors before and during a selected course of study?
(5)     Are there any Universities, companies, or organizations who have
been
greater benefactors?
Academics:
(1)     How much math and science is necessary for a person to be
successful
within the computer science field.
(2)     In general, are materials accessible with access technology?
(3)     What are some effective, and somewhat universal, techniques for
manipulating and writing computer languages?
(4)     In what ways did your assignments get modified, to establish
equal
access to all requirements?
(5)     What are some effective ways for designing accessible algorithms
and
data structures?
(6)     When developing a portfolio, did you find an accessible way of
publicly
displaying your code, or for hosting your portfolio?
(7)     After publishing your code, what methods do you use to ensure the
visible code is visually appealing or readable?
(8)     Are there any courses you might recommend to take in high school
to
prepare someone going into the computer science field?
(9)     Besides the source work required to obtain your degree, what
additional
course work might you recommend to enhance one’s employment
effectiveness?
Access technology:
(1)     What access technology gave you the greatest degree of
opportunity to
compete on an equal playing field with your peers?
(2)     What challenges did access technology present when interacting
with the
technology required to complete tasks and assignments for your computer
science degree or profession?
(3)     What role does access technology play in the completion of your
daily
assignments or tasks?
(4)     How might modifications to standard technology create more
opportunity
for usability with access technology?
General technology:
(1)     In what ways is the general technology inaccessible when paired
with
access technology? Are there any work arounds for these issues?
(2)     What sort of accommodations are necessary for the use of most
general
technology used in this field of study or profession?
(3)     Can standard tasks be completed on a unit without extensive
modification
or accommodations?
Does most technology come ready to use? Are there ways to increase one’s
productivity when using Python JavaScript C++ swift and racket, and
integrated development environments (IDEs)—such as CodeLite, Eclipse,
NetBeans, VisualWX, Xcode, and KDevelop?





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