[nfbcs] Research

Amanda Lacy lacy925 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 23 19:50:21 UTC 2017 

The problem with the surveys is that the disability access service
providers at the college get to choose which questions get asked.

On 2/23/17, Walker, Michael E via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I like surveys of services provided by disability access services.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Barbour via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 12:58 PM
> To: Greg Kearney via nfbcs
> Cc: Jim Barbour
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>
> What criteria could be base such a rating on?
>
> The self reporting of disabled students?
> Surveys of services provided by Disabled Student Services?
> Something else?
>
> I'm not sure this is something that we're in a good position to tackle on
> our own.
>
> Maybe we can collaborate with NABS on this.
>
> Jim
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:51:41PM -0600, Greg Kearney via nfbcs wrote:
>> I'm not thinking of anything legally binding on the schools I'm thinking
>> something along the lines of the U.S. News and World Report ratings of
>> colleges. U.S. News and World Report isn't regulating colleges and they
>> are not seeking the permission of colleges to rate them in their survey.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> > On Feb 23, 2017, at 12:24 PM, Andy B. via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Not a wise idea since it would take more resources than available, and
>> > schools can change policy at a moments notice. Of course, schools aren't
>> > regulated by the NFB, so why would they seek approval or want to have
>> > the NFB as a regulating body? Most of the ratings are based on opinion
>> > much like other rating systems. Thus, buyer beware, which is a present
>> > fact. The only difference is no one is telling us to beware.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda
>> > Lacy via nfbcs
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 1:17 PM
>> > To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> > Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>> >
>> > Seconded.
>> >
>> > On 2/23/17, Martin, Vincent F via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >> I think tha tis a phenomenal idea.
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg
>> >> Kearney via nfbcs
>> >> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 12:25 PM
>> >> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Cc: Greg Kearney <gkearney at gmail.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps the NFB could develop a college ratings system for
>> >> accessibility at colleges and universities
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> Greg Kearney
>> >> Commonwealth Braille and Talking Book Cooperative
>> >>
>> >>> On Feb 23, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Martin, Vincent F via nfbcs
>> >>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> It is still such a crapshoot when choosing schools now.  As a
>> >>> blind person, we really have to work our network really well
>> >>> before we consider where we want to go for undergraduate and graduate
>> >>> school.
>> >>> School rankings, programs, and areas of research are still a major
>> >>> concern, but having to fight the accessibility fight as well can be a
>> >>> daunting task.
>> >>> Most people I know that had a bad experience with Computer Science
>> >>> or any STEM based education mostly had an Accessibility problem
>> >>> and not a curriculum problem.
>> >>> I even recommended that a fellow blind PhD student choose another
>> >>> school to attend for his PhD and he had a NSF fellowship.  I
>> >>> advised him of this as I found out that I was the first and only
>> >>> totally blind student in Georgia Tech's 131 year history.  I have
>> >>> had nothing but accessibility problems since I arrived for
>> >>> graduate school, but felt that I was qualified to work toward my
>> >>> degree and fight the fight at the same time.
>> >>> I have earned my Master's degree and am in the last year to year
>> >>> and a half of my PhD work, and I have done everything to make it
>> >>> better for others behind me.
>> >>> Unfortunately, I have had to file three different Office of Civil
>> >>> Rights complaints against the school and they will soon be signing
>> >>> the agreement on the third one.  The law is quite clear, but the
>> >>> school has been playing a Risk management numbers game in this
>> >>> situation.  We now have two ADA coordinators on campus (full-time)
>> >>> have done a two-year assessment of the built environment and made
>> >>> a ten year strategic plan for addressing them, but still are
>> >>> baulking at true accessibility in the electronic realm.  The new
>> >>> Disability services Coordinator has a great new staff and is
>> >>> making strides toward fixing years of neglect and I am gladly
>> >>> assisting her.  It is rare when you find a person that understands
>> >>> that this is a social problem and not a technological problem.  It
>> >>> truly is an attitude that needs to be changed.
>> >>> Now, I would recommend that a totally blind person attend the
>> >>> school, as I think a newly matriculating student would be
>> >>> accommodated.  I was even able to clear the path for a mentee of mine
>> >>> to come here.
>> >>> He is not totally blind, but does utilize assistive technology to
>> >>> help with the reading of the vast numbers of academic journals.
>> >>> He was just recently married, and His wife is totally blind and he
>> >>> had to assist her over the phone when she was in graduate school
>> >>> at another university with her Statistics.  He attended an Ivy
>> >>> league school and she was at NyU.  If you head to NC State or to
>> >>> Berkley, you have a much better chance of being properly
>> >>> accommodated, but I know UT Austin was a nightmare for a recent
>> >>> Computer Science graduate.  I know how bad it was for her as I was
>> >>> in contact with some sighted students and graduate students when she
>> >>> was there.  .
>> >>> Colorado is much better now, but they had to be hit over the head by
>> >>> the Department of Justice to make them clean up their act.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John
>> >>> Heim via nfbcs
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:06 AM
>> >>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Cc: John Heim <john at johnheim.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't think you can make generalizations based on the size of
>> >>> the school. You can run into an uncooperative instructor anywhere.
>> >>> It can even depend on who happens to be chair of the department at the
>> >>> time.
>> >>> If you run into an uncooperative instructor, is the department
>> >>> chair or dean of students going to care? Some do and some don't. I
>> >>> have heard stories from students at other institutions that would
>> >>> shock any instructor here at the University of Wisconsin.
>> >>>
>> >>> I can agree with your point about the competition though. I used
>> >>> to give a mini-course on latex at the beginning of each school
>> >>> year. But fewer and fewer people came to it and we finally stopped
>> >>> doing it.
>> >>> Kids come in already knowing latex or they have to pick it up on
>> >>> their own. I'm glad I'm not a student any more. The amount of
>> >>> partying I did would never cut it these days.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 02/23/2017 12:28 AM, David Tseng via nfbcs wrote:
>> >>>> When it comes down to it, the experience imo, depends on the
>> >>>> university.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In a big research university, say top 50 in the country, the
>> >>>> emphasis is on a fairly challenging course load. The profile of
>> >>>> the typical freshman undergrad is someone who has been coding for
>> >>>> quite some time, has familiarity with a *nix environment, and is
>> >>>> capable of picking up major topics at each lecture (two or three
>> >>>> times a week).
>> >>>> Classes are typically large; say ~100-200. Professors are
>> >>>> extremely brilliant, which also means they go fast. Peers are at
>> >>>> the top of their game. CS tends to attract students who exceled in
>> >>>> high school.
>> >>>> These are kids who took multi variable calculus, discrete math,
>> >>>> and linear algebra before even graduating high school.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> While in undergrad, I spoke with plenty of sighted kids who found
>> >>>> the experience daunting :).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If you want a taste, you can "preview" much of the lower division
>> >>>> classes from Berkeley. CS61A, for example, is the first course
>> >>>> and it is a weeder for just about all students.
>> >>>> I don't think I know many people, including colleagues, who could
>> >>>> stand against the rigorousness of the grading. But, that's why
>> >>>> it's a top program. However, in that environment, even little bit
>> >>>> counts and blindness is a major disadvantage because you are
>> >>>> judged against your peers without having access to 100% of what
>> >>>> they've got.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If I had one piece of advice to give, skip the CS undergrad
>> >>>> unless you're in a lower teir school or a university you know
>> >>>> well to be student centric and not heavily weighted towards
>> >>>> performance metrics.
>> >>>> Get your fancy CS graduate degree :) at a top teir school. That
>> >>>> is a totally different animal and quite a bit easier imo. I know
>> >>>> of many blind professionals who went to great uni's for their
>> >>>> masters/Ph.D's for CS and due to a variety of factors, they all
>> >>>> seem to find the experience better than those who took the undergrad
>> >>>> route.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <
>> >>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Amanda,
>> >>>>> I have to disagree. I currently have an under grad degree in CS,
>> >>>>> and I am working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time as a
>> >>>>> computer scientist.
>> >>>>> There are some issues the blind will experience with technical
>> >>>>> degrees that are unique to those degrees, but it's definitely
>> >>>>> doable.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Joe
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 2/22/2017 12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I have a CS degree. I cannot in good conscience recommend it to
>> >>>>>> other blind students unless they accept that they will
>> >>>>>> experience a lot of hurt. I don't have satisfying answers to
>> >>>>>> most of your questions.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hello Andy,
>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your response. Before answering your questions,
>> >>>>>>> I will preface my response that this project is entirely
>> >>>>>>> predicated on ensuring other blind students, who may be
>> >>>>>>> considering computer science, do not do what I did; namely,
>> >>>>>>> believing that blind people cannot do computer science. Now,
>> >>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>> questions:
>> >>>>>>> (1) No University, community college, or vocational school is
>> >>>>>>> funding this; this is an assignment that I have received on
>> >>>>>>> behalf of the Louisiana Center for the Blind (LCB) for my
>> >>>>>>> technology class.
>> >>>>>>> (2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno, this past
>> >>>>>>> December with an Honors B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in
>> >>>>>>> logic, metaphysics, and epistemology.
>> >>>>>>> (3) This guide will serve to educate prospective computer
>> >>>>>>> science students who are blind. When I was in high school, I
>> >>>>>>> was extremely interested in doing computer science. I was told
>> >>>>>>> that blind people could not do computer science; mistakenly, I
>> >>>>>>> believed this to be true and thus proceeded into the liberal
>> >>>>>>> arts. If I can provide clarity to other students thinking
>> >>>>>>> about computer science, or elucidate blind students when it
>> >>>>>>> comes to the copasity of blind people, I would be very happy.
>> >>>>>>> As it stands, the only place I know for sure this research
>> >>>>>>> will end up is the national Association of Blind Students
>> >>>>>>> website, as I sit on the board and can make that happen.
>> >>>>>>> Otherwise,
>> >>>>>>> I have no idea.
>> >>>>>>> (4) This is true. I did not make this anonimis. If people are
>> >>>>>>> willing to answer, I would be very happy, and will of course
>> >>>>>>> cite you, or not cite you, depending on your permission. If
>> >>>>>>> people are not willing to, I totally understand that as well.
>> >>>>>>> I hope I was able to address your concerns.
>> >>>>>>> For anyone else who wishes to help me out, you can email your
>> >>>>>>> responses to my email (mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel
>> >>>>>>> confortible, just responding to this thread.
>> >>>>>>> Thank you again for all your attention and time!
>> >>>>>>> Respectfully,
>> >>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>> >>>>>>> Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada.
>> >>>>>>> Secretary, National Association of blind Students Student, The
>> >>>>>>> Louisiana Center for the Blind
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy
>> >>>>>>> B.
>> >>>>>>> via nfbcs
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:24 PM
>> >>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I am interested in answering these questions. However, you
>> >>>>>>> never displayed your credentials or qualifications in the
>> >>>>>>> subject. What school is funding this study? Where did you
>> >>>>>>> graduate and with what degree? What do you intend on doing
>> >>>>>>> with the guide when it is finished? The results of this survey are
>> >>>>>>> not anonymous.
>> >>>>>>> Therefore, people might be hesitant.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >>>>>>> Michael via nfbcs
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM
>> >>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>> Cc: Michael <mausbun at nevada.unr.edu>
>> >>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Research
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hello All:
>> >>>>>>>       My name is Michael Ausbun, and I am currently a student
>> >>>>>>> at the Louisiana Center for the Blind. I am conducting
>> >>>>>>> research, to develop a comprehensive guide for prospective
>> >>>>>>> computer science students. I would much appreciate it if you
>> >>>>>>> would take some time and answer the following questions.
>> >>>>>>>       Thank you for your attention in this matter.
>> >>>>>>> Respectfully,
>> >>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Research questions:
>> >>>>>>> Advocacy:
>> >>>>>>> (1)     What accommodations do you believe were most beneficial to
>> >>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>> completing your degree?
>> >>>>>>> (2)     What accommodation(s) were necessary when completing
>> >>>>>>> visual
>> >>>>>>> components
>> >>>>>>> of one’s degree requirements?
>> >>>>>>> (3)     In what ways have you advocated for the modification of
>> >>>>>>> materials to
>> >>>>>>> ensure equal access for yourself or future computer science
>> >>>>>>> students?
>> >>>>>>> (4)     What is the most important question(s) a computer science
>> >>>>>>> student should
>> >>>>>>> ask their instructors before and during a selected course of
>> >>>>>>> study?
>> >>>>>>> (5)     Are there any Universities, companies, or organizations
>> >>>>>>> who
>> >>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>> been
>> >>>>>>> greater benefactors?
>> >>>>>>> Academics:
>> >>>>>>> (1)     How much math and science is necessary for a person to be
>> >>>>>>> successful
>> >>>>>>> within the computer science field.
>> >>>>>>> (2)     In general, are materials accessible with access
>> >>>>>>> technology?
>> >>>>>>> (3)     What are some effective, and somewhat universal,
>> >>>>>>> techniques
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>> manipulating and writing computer languages?
>> >>>>>>> (4)     In what ways did your assignments get modified, to
>> >>>>>>> establish
>> >>>>>>> equal
>> >>>>>>> access to all requirements?
>> >>>>>>> (5)     What are some effective ways for designing accessible
>> >>>>>>> algorithms
>> >>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>> data structures?
>> >>>>>>> (6)     When developing a portfolio, did you find an accessible
>> >>>>>>> way
>> >>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>> publicly
>> >>>>>>> displaying your code, or for hosting your portfolio?
>> >>>>>>> (7)     After publishing your code, what methods do you use to
>> >>>>>>> ensure
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> visible code is visually appealing or readable?
>> >>>>>>> (8)     Are there any courses you might recommend to take in high
>> >>>>>>> school
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>> prepare someone going into the computer science field?
>> >>>>>>> (9)     Besides the source work required to obtain your degree,
>> >>>>>>> what
>> >>>>>>> additional
>> >>>>>>> course work might you recommend to enhance one’s employment
>> >>>>>>> effectiveness?
>> >>>>>>> Access technology:
>> >>>>>>> (1)     What access technology gave you the greatest degree of
>> >>>>>>> opportunity to
>> >>>>>>> compete on an equal playing field with your peers?
>> >>>>>>> (2)     What challenges did access technology present when
>> >>>>>>> interacting
>> >>>>>>> with the
>> >>>>>>> technology required to complete tasks and assignments for your
>> >>>>>>> computer science degree or profession?
>> >>>>>>> (3)     What role does access technology play in the completion
>> >>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>> daily
>> >>>>>>> assignments or tasks?
>> >>>>>>> (4)     How might modifications to standard technology create
>> >>>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>> opportunity
>> >>>>>>> for usability with access technology?
>> >>>>>>> General technology:
>> >>>>>>> (1)     In what ways is the general technology inaccessible when
>> >>>>>>> paired
>> >>>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>> access technology? Are there any work arounds for these issues?
>> >>>>>>> (2)     What sort of accommodations are necessary for the use of
>> >>>>>>> most
>> >>>>>>> general
>> >>>>>>> technology used in this field of study or profession?
>> >>>>>>> (3)     Can standard tasks be completed on a unit without
>> >>>>>>> extensive
>> >>>>>>> modification
>> >>>>>>> or accommodations?
>> >>>>>>> Does most technology come ready to use? Are there ways to
>> >>>>>>> increase one’s productivity when using Python JavaScript C++
>> >>>>>>> swift and racket, and integrated development environments
>> >>>>>>> (IDEs)—such as CodeLite, Eclipse, NetBeans, VisualWX, Xcode, and
>> >>>>>>> KDevelop?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
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>> >>>>>>> info for
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>> >>>>>>> 0gm
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>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>> l
>> >>>>>>> .com
>> >>>>>>>
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