[nfbcs] Research
John Heim
john at johnheim.com
Fri Feb 24 15:10:54 UTC 2017
The issue of the value of a degree has come up before on this list. In
my capacity as President of IAVIT, I've talked to IT managers about this
before. I happened to be on a run with a group of guys a couple of weeks
ago. One of them was the manager of an IT department for a company with
maybe a hundred employees in a handful of states.
I brought up this issue about some blind people thinking a degree isn't
worth it. He was, in turn, shocked, amused, then horrified. First he
expressed surprise, then he made a little joke. Then when I explained it
really was controversial, he was horrified. He said essentially that a
blind person already has such an uphill battle that you really don't
need to add not having a degree on top of it. He said they get so many
applications for entry level positions that they don't need to bother
with people who don't have a degree in CS or related field. They don't
even bother with people who don't have degrees for a lot of mid-level
positions.
So I asked him, "Which would be worse, having a misspelling on your
resume or not having a degree?" He said, "You know, quite honestly, the
degree would be a bigger problem.
Having a degree so greatly expands the number of positions you qualify
for that is absolutely worth it especially for a blind person.
On 02/24/2017 06:31 AM, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs wrote:
> Amanda,
> Worth while is the point I'm disagreeing with you on. Pretty much any
> degree is "doable", but as you point out with some there's no point
> because you won't be able to learn or do anything with that degree once
> you finish. That doesn't just apply to blind people either; there are
> worthless degrees out there.
>
> What I am arguing is that it is in fact worth while. I studied computer
> science at a couple of schools. In both cases, I was able to learn the
> material and I was able to complete most of the course work. There were
> a couple of situations where I needed some extra help, and there were a
> couple of major assignments I can remember where the professor had me do
> an alternative assignment. In those cases, it wasn't because I couldn't
> do the work in question, it was because the visual aspects weren't the
> point of the assignment and I could get the same information by doing
> something else.
>
> As for whether the degree is worth while from a career perspective,
> well, you can have quite a lengthy discussion on that particular
> question. As someone who has worked in the field for years, both with
> and without a CS degree, what I will say about it is this. If you want
> to work in the computer science field, as in the deep technical aspects
> of it and not just as a network admin or help desk rep or something like
> that, you almost have to have a computer science degree these days. It
> is possible to get hired as a software developer or other highly
> technical job without the degree, but it is not easy and the best jobs
> go to those with the degree.
>
> --
> Joe
>
> On 2/23/2017 13:34, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>> Joe,
>>
>> I agree that it's doable. Whether it's worthwhile is another question.
>> I transferred to UT Austin because I loved programming and learning.
>> Once there, I spent much more time struggling with access than I spent
>> programming or learning.
>>
>> On 2/22/17, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Amanda,
>>> I have to disagree. I currently have an under grad degree in CS, and I
>>> am working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time as a computer
>>> scientist. There are some issues the blind will experience with
>>> technical degrees that are unique to those degrees, but it's definitely
>>> doable.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On 2/22/2017 12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>> I have a CS degree. I cannot in good conscience recommend it to other
>>>> blind students unless they accept that they will experience a lot of
>>>> hurt. I don't have satisfying answers to most of your questions.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Andy,
>>>>> Thank you for your response. Before answering your questions, I will
>>>>> preface
>>>>> my response that this project is entirely predicated on ensuring other
>>>>> blind
>>>>> students, who may be considering computer science, do not do what I
>>>>> did;
>>>>> namely, believing that blind people cannot do computer science.
>>>>> Now, your
>>>>> questions:
>>>>> (1) No University, community college, or vocational school is funding
>>>>> this;
>>>>> this is an assignment that I have received on behalf of the Louisiana
>>>>> Center
>>>>> for the Blind (LCB) for my technology class.
>>>>> (2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno, this past
>>>>> December
>>>>> with
>>>>> an Honors B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in logic,
>>>>> metaphysics, and
>>>>> epistemology.
>>>>> (3) This guide will serve to educate prospective computer science
>>>>> students
>>>>> who are blind. When I was in high school, I was extremely
>>>>> interested in
>>>>> doing computer science. I was told that blind people could not do
>>>>> computer
>>>>> science; mistakenly, I believed this to be true and thus proceeded
>>>>> into
>>>>> the
>>>>> liberal arts. If I can provide clarity to other students thinking
>>>>> about
>>>>> computer science, or elucidate blind students when it comes to the
>>>>> copasity
>>>>> of blind people, I would be very happy. As it stands, the only place I
>>>>> know
>>>>> for sure this research will end up is the national Association of
>>>>> Blind
>>>>> Students website, as I sit on the board and can make that happen.
>>>>> Otherwise,
>>>>> I have no idea.
>>>>> (4) This is true. I did not make this anonimis. If people are
>>>>> willing to
>>>>> answer, I would be very happy, and will of course cite you, or not
>>>>> cite
>>>>> you,
>>>>> depending on your permission. If people are not willing to, I totally
>>>>> understand that as well.
>>>>> I hope I was able to address your concerns.
>>>>> For anyone else who wishes to help me out, you can email your
>>>>> responses
>>>>> to
>>>>> my email (mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel confortible, just
>>>>> responding to this thread.
>>>>> Thank you again for all your attention and time!
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>> Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada.
>>>>> Secretary, National Association of blind Students
>>>>> Student, The Louisiana Center for the Blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B. via
>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:24 PM
>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>
>>>>> I am interested in answering these questions. However, you never
>>>>> displayed
>>>>> your credentials or qualifications in the subject. What school is
>>>>> funding
>>>>> this study? Where did you graduate and with what degree? What do you
>>>>> intend
>>>>> on doing with the guide when it is finished? The results of this
>>>>> survey
>>>>> are
>>>>> not anonymous. Therefore, people might be hesitant.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael via
>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM
>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Michael <mausbun at nevada.unr.edu>
>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All:
>>>>> My name is Michael Ausbun, and I am currently a student at the
>>>>> Louisiana
>>>>> Center for the Blind. I am conducting research, to develop a
>>>>> comprehensive
>>>>> guide for prospective computer science students. I would much
>>>>> appreciate
>>>>> it
>>>>> if you would take some time and answer the following questions.
>>>>> Thank you for your attention in this matter.
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>
>>>>> Research questions:
>>>>> Advocacy:
>>>>> (1) What accommodations do you believe were most beneficial to
>>>>> you in
>>>>> completing your degree?
>>>>> (2) What accommodation(s) were necessary when completing visual
>>>>> components
>>>>> of one’s degree requirements?
>>>>> (3) In what ways have you advocated for the modification of
>>>>> materials to
>>>>> ensure equal access for yourself or future computer science students?
>>>>> (4) What is the most important question(s) a computer science
>>>>> student
>>>>> should
>>>>> ask their instructors before and during a selected course of study?
>>>>> (5) Are there any Universities, companies, or organizations who
>>>>> have been
>>>>> greater benefactors?
>>>>> Academics:
>>>>> (1) How much math and science is necessary for a person to be
>>>>> successful
>>>>> within the computer science field.
>>>>> (2) In general, are materials accessible with access technology?
>>>>> (3) What are some effective, and somewhat universal, techniques for
>>>>> manipulating and writing computer languages?
>>>>> (4) In what ways did your assignments get modified, to establish
>>>>> equal
>>>>> access to all requirements?
>>>>> (5) What are some effective ways for designing accessible
>>>>> algorithms and
>>>>> data structures?
>>>>> (6) When developing a portfolio, did you find an accessible way of
>>>>> publicly
>>>>> displaying your code, or for hosting your portfolio?
>>>>> (7) After publishing your code, what methods do you use to
>>>>> ensure the
>>>>> visible code is visually appealing or readable?
>>>>> (8) Are there any courses you might recommend to take in high
>>>>> school to
>>>>> prepare someone going into the computer science field?
>>>>> (9) Besides the source work required to obtain your degree, what
>>>>> additional
>>>>> course work might you recommend to enhance one’s employment
>>>>> effectiveness?
>>>>> Access technology:
>>>>> (1) What access technology gave you the greatest degree of
>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>> compete on an equal playing field with your peers?
>>>>> (2) What challenges did access technology present when
>>>>> interacting with
>>>>> the
>>>>> technology required to complete tasks and assignments for your
>>>>> computer
>>>>> science degree or profession?
>>>>> (3) What role does access technology play in the completion of
>>>>> your daily
>>>>> assignments or tasks?
>>>>> (4) How might modifications to standard technology create more
>>>>> opportunity
>>>>> for usability with access technology?
>>>>> General technology:
>>>>> (1) In what ways is the general technology inaccessible when
>>>>> paired with
>>>>> access technology? Are there any work arounds for these issues?
>>>>> (2) What sort of accommodations are necessary for the use of
>>>>> most general
>>>>> technology used in this field of study or profession?
>>>>> (3) Can standard tasks be completed on a unit without extensive
>>>>> modification
>>>>> or accommodations?
>>>>> Does most technology come ready to use? Are there ways to increase
>>>>> one’s
>>>>> productivity when using Python JavaScript C++ swift and racket, and
>>>>> integrated development environments (IDEs)—such as CodeLite, Eclipse,
>>>>> NetBeans, VisualWX, Xcode, and KDevelop?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>
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