[nfbcs] Research

John Heim john at johnheim.com
Fri Feb 24 22:15:32 UTC 2017 

It sounds to me as if you just need some confidence. My experience is 
that often if someone thinks they can't do a job, it's the job, not the 
person.  Truely incompetant people usually think they're doing fine. How 
long have you been in your current job? Maybe it's time for a change.


On 02/24/2017 03:55 PM, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>> I don't understand your question. Are you saying that you feel your
>> education was inadequate or are you saying that being blind, you fell
>> that you couldn't cash in on having a CS degree?
>
> Probably both, but mostly the latter. I tend to assume that everyone
> around me knows some key piece of information that I'm missing because
> this has been my experience many times. At UT Austin almost all key
> information is spread through word of mouth.
>
>> It may not be directly relevant to your point but I would add that there
>> certainly are easier ways for a blind person to get by in life than
>> getting a CS degree and fighting with computers every day. It isn't
>> easy. But for some people, that's what they like about it. Being someone
>> who thrives on challenges is a valuable trait for anyone who works with
>> computers but especially for a blind person.
>
> Fighting with computers is one thing, with people a very different
> thing. People are usually more confusing than computers.
>
> On 2/24/17, John Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I don't understand your question. Are you saying that you feel your
>> education was inadequate or are you saying that being blind, you fell
>> that you couldn't cash in on having a CS degree?
>>
>> It may not be directly relevant to your point but I would add that there
>> certainly are easier ways for a blind person to get by in life than
>> getting a CS degree and fighting with computers every day. It isn't
>> easy. But for some people, that's what they like about it. Being someone
>> who thrives on challenges is a valuable trait for anyone who works with
>> computers but especially for a blind person.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/24/2017 12:47 PM, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>> I wasn't arguing that a CS degree generally isn't worth it. But if I
>>> technically have a CS degree but I missed out on most of the benefits
>>> it was supposed to bring, am I truly prepared or qualified for these
>>> jobs that require CS degrees?
>>>
>>> On 2/24/17, John Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> The issue of the value of a degree has come up before on this list. In
>>>> my capacity as President of IAVIT, I've talked to IT managers about this
>>>> before. I happened to be on a run with a group of guys a couple of weeks
>>>> ago. One of them was the manager of an IT department for a company with
>>>> maybe a hundred employees in a handful of states.
>>>> I brought up this issue about some blind people thinking a degree isn't
>>>> worth it. He was, in turn, shocked, amused, then horrified. First he
>>>> expressed surprise, then he made a little joke. Then when I explained it
>>>> really was controversial, he was horrified. He said essentially that a
>>>> blind person already has such an uphill battle that you really don't
>>>> need to add not having a degree on top of it.  He said they get so many
>>>> applications for entry level positions that they don't need to bother
>>>> with people who don't have a degree in CS or related field. They don't
>>>> even bother with people who don't have degrees for a lot of mid-level
>>>> positions.
>>>>
>>>> So I asked him, "Which would be worse, having a misspelling on your
>>>> resume or not having a degree?" He said, "You know, quite honestly, the
>>>> degree would be a bigger problem.
>>>>
>>>> Having a degree so greatly expands the number of positions you qualify
>>>> for that is absolutely worth it especially for a blind person.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02/24/2017 06:31 AM, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>> Amanda,
>>>>> Worth while is the point I'm disagreeing with you on. Pretty much any
>>>>> degree is "doable", but as you point out with some there's no point
>>>>> because you won't be able to learn or do anything with that degree once
>>>>> you finish. That doesn't just apply to blind people either; there are
>>>>> worthless degrees out there.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I am arguing is that it is in fact worth while. I studied computer
>>>>> science at a couple of schools. In both cases, I was able to learn the
>>>>> material and I was able to complete most of the course work. There were
>>>>> a couple of situations where I needed some extra help, and there were a
>>>>> couple of major assignments I can remember where the professor had me do
>>>>> an alternative assignment. In those cases, it wasn't because I couldn't
>>>>> do the work in question, it was because the visual aspects weren't the
>>>>> point of the assignment and I could get the same information by doing
>>>>> something else.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for whether the degree is worth while from a career perspective,
>>>>> well, you can have quite a lengthy discussion on that particular
>>>>> question. As someone who has worked in the field for years, both with
>>>>> and without a CS degree, what I will say about it is this. If you want
>>>>> to work in the computer science field, as in the deep technical aspects
>>>>> of it and not just as a network admin or help desk rep or something like
>>>>> that, you almost have to have a computer science degree these days. It
>>>>> is possible to get hired as a software developer or other highly
>>>>> technical job without the degree, but it is not easy and the best jobs
>>>>> go to those with the degree.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/23/2017 13:34, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>>> Joe,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that it's doable. Whether it's worthwhile is another question.
>>>>>> I transferred to UT Austin because I loved programming and learning.
>>>>>> Once there, I spent much more time struggling with access than I spent
>>>>>> programming or learning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/22/17, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Amanda,
>>>>>>> I have to disagree. I currently have an under grad degree in CS, and I
>>>>>>> am working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time as a computer
>>>>>>> scientist. There are some issues the blind will experience with
>>>>>>> technical degrees that are unique to those degrees, but it's
>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>> doable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/22/2017 12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>>>>> I have a CS degree. I cannot in good conscience recommend it to other
>>>>>>>> blind students unless they accept that they will experience a lot of
>>>>>>>> hurt. I don't have satisfying answers to most of your questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Andy,
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your response. Before answering your questions, I will
>>>>>>>>> preface
>>>>>>>>> my response that this project is entirely predicated on ensuring
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>> students, who may be considering computer science, do not do what I
>>>>>>>>> did;
>>>>>>>>> namely, believing that blind people cannot do computer science.
>>>>>>>>> Now, your
>>>>>>>>> questions:
>>>>>>>>> (1) No University, community college, or vocational school is
>>>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>>>> this;
>>>>>>>>> this is an assignment that I have received on behalf of the
>>>>>>>>> Louisiana
>>>>>>>>> Center
>>>>>>>>> for the Blind (LCB) for my technology class.
>>>>>>>>> (2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno, this past
>>>>>>>>> December
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> an Honors B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in logic,
>>>>>>>>> metaphysics, and
>>>>>>>>> epistemology.
>>>>>>>>> (3) This guide will serve to educate prospective computer science
>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>> who are blind. When I was in high school, I was extremely
>>>>>>>>> interested in
>>>>>>>>> doing computer science. I was told that blind people could not do
>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>>> science; mistakenly, I believed this to be true and thus proceeded
>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> liberal arts. If I can provide clarity to other students thinking
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> computer science, or elucidate blind students when it comes to the
>>>>>>>>> copasity
>>>>>>>>> of blind people, I would be very happy. As it stands, the only place
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> for sure this research will end up is the national Association of
>>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>>> Students website, as I sit on the board and can make that happen.
>>>>>>>>> Otherwise,
>>>>>>>>> I have no idea.
>>>>>>>>> (4) This is true. I did not make this anonimis. If people are
>>>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>>> answer, I would be very happy, and will of course cite you, or not
>>>>>>>>> cite
>>>>>>>>> you,
>>>>>>>>> depending on your permission. If people are not willing to, I
>>>>>>>>> totally
>>>>>>>>> understand that as well.
>>>>>>>>> I hope I was able to address your concerns.
>>>>>>>>> For anyone else who wishes to help me out, you can email your
>>>>>>>>> responses
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> my email (mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel confortible, just
>>>>>>>>> responding to this thread.
>>>>>>>>> Thank you again for all your attention and time!
>>>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>>>>> Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada.
>>>>>>>>> Secretary, National Association of blind Students
>>>>>>>>> Student, The Louisiana Center for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B.
>>>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:24 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am interested in answering these questions. However, you never
>>>>>>>>> displayed
>>>>>>>>> your credentials or qualifications in the subject. What school is
>>>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>>>> this study? Where did you graduate and with what degree? What do you
>>>>>>>>> intend
>>>>>>>>> on doing with the guide when it is finished? The results of this
>>>>>>>>> survey
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> not anonymous. Therefore, people might be hesitant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
>>>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Michael <mausbun at nevada.unr.edu>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello All:
>>>>>>>>>     My name is Michael Ausbun, and I am currently a student at the
>>>>>>>>> Louisiana
>>>>>>>>> Center for the Blind. I am conducting research, to develop a
>>>>>>>>> comprehensive
>>>>>>>>> guide for prospective computer science students. I would much
>>>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> if you would take some time and answer the following questions.
>>>>>>>>>     Thank you for your attention in this matter.
>>>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Research questions:
>>>>>>>>> Advocacy:
>>>>>>>>> (1)    What accommodations do you believe were most beneficial to
>>>>>>>>> you in
>>>>>>>>> completing your degree?
>>>>>>>>> (2)    What accommodation(s) were necessary when completing visual
>>>>>>>>> components
>>>>>>>>> of one’s degree requirements?
>>>>>>>>> (3)    In what ways have you advocated for the modification of
>>>>>>>>> materials to
>>>>>>>>> ensure equal access for yourself or future computer science
>>>>>>>>> students?
>>>>>>>>> (4)    What is the most important question(s) a computer science
>>>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> ask their instructors before and during a selected course of study?
>>>>>>>>> (5)    Are there any Universities, companies, or organizations who
>>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>>> greater benefactors?
>>>>>>>>> Academics:
>>>>>>>>> (1)    How much math and science is necessary for a person to be
>>>>>>>>> successful
>>>>>>>>> within the computer science field.
>>>>>>>>> (2)    In general, are materials accessible with access technology?
>>>>>>>>> (3)    What are some effective, and somewhat universal, techniques
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> manipulating and writing computer languages?
>>>>>>>>> (4)    In what ways did your assignments get modified, to establish
>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>> access to all requirements?
>>>>>>>>> (5)    What are some effective ways for designing accessible
>>>>>>>>> algorithms and
>>>>>>>>> data structures?
>>>>>>>>> (6)    When developing a portfolio, did you find an accessible way
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> publicly
>>>>>>>>> displaying your code, or for hosting your portfolio?
>>>>>>>>> (7)    After publishing your code, what methods do you use to
>>>>>>>>> ensure the
>>>>>>>>> visible code is visually appealing or readable?
>>>>>>>>> (8)    Are there any courses you might recommend to take in high
>>>>>>>>> school to
>>>>>>>>> prepare someone going into the computer science field?
>>>>>>>>> (9)    Besides the source work required to obtain your degree, what
>>>>>>>>> additional
>>>>>>>>> course work might you recommend to enhance one’s employment
>>>>>>>>> effectiveness?
>>>>>>>>> Access technology:
>>>>>>>>> (1)    What access technology gave you the greatest degree of
>>>>>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>>>>> compete on an equal playing field with your peers?
>>>>>>>>> (2)    What challenges did access technology present when
>>>>>>>>> interacting with
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> technology required to complete tasks and assignments for your
>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>>> science degree or profession?
>>>>>>>>> (3)    What role does access technology play in the completion of
>>>>>>>>> your daily
>>>>>>>>> assignments or tasks?
>>>>>>>>> (4)    How might modifications to standard technology create more
>>>>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>>>>>> for usability with access technology?
>>>>>>>>> General technology:
>>>>>>>>> (1)    In what ways is the general technology inaccessible when
>>>>>>>>> paired with
>>>>>>>>> access technology? Are there any work arounds for these issues?
>>>>>>>>> (2)    What sort of accommodations are necessary for the use of
>>>>>>>>> most general
>>>>>>>>> technology used in this field of study or profession?
>>>>>>>>> (3)    Can standard tasks be completed on a unit without extensive
>>>>>>>>> modification
>>>>>>>>> or accommodations?
>>>>>>>>> Does most technology come ready to use? Are there ways to increase
>>>>>>>>> one’s
>>>>>>>>> productivity when using Python JavaScript C++ swift and racket, and
>>>>>>>>> integrated development environments (IDEs)—such as CodeLite,
>>>>>>>>> Eclipse,
>>>>>>>>> NetBeans, VisualWX, Xcode, and KDevelop?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>
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