[nfbcs] Research
Amanda Lacy
lacy925 at gmail.com
Fri Feb 24 23:52:56 UTC 2017
I didn't mean key information in class. I meant key information about
the program, the courses, the professors, the internships, the hiring
schedule etc.
On 2/24/17, Andy Borka via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> How is key information in the CS degree spread only through word of mouth?
> All of my key CS information is provided through experience or in the
> coursework.
>
>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 4:55 PM, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't understand your question. Are you saying that you feel your
>>> education was inadequate or are you saying that being blind, you fell
>>> that you couldn't cash in on having a CS degree?
>>
>> Probably both, but mostly the latter. I tend to assume that everyone
>> around me knows some key piece of information that I'm missing because
>> this has been my experience many times. At UT Austin almost all key
>> information is spread through word of mouth.
>>
>>> It may not be directly relevant to your point but I would add that there
>>> certainly are easier ways for a blind person to get by in life than
>>> getting a CS degree and fighting with computers every day. It isn't
>>> easy. But for some people, that's what they like about it. Being someone
>>> who thrives on challenges is a valuable trait for anyone who works with
>>> computers but especially for a blind person.
>>
>> Fighting with computers is one thing, with people a very different
>> thing. People are usually more confusing than computers.
>>
>> On 2/24/17, John Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I don't understand your question. Are you saying that you feel your
>>> education was inadequate or are you saying that being blind, you fell
>>> that you couldn't cash in on having a CS degree?
>>>
>>> It may not be directly relevant to your point but I would add that there
>>> certainly are easier ways for a blind person to get by in life than
>>> getting a CS degree and fighting with computers every day. It isn't
>>> easy. But for some people, that's what they like about it. Being someone
>>> who thrives on challenges is a valuable trait for anyone who works with
>>> computers but especially for a blind person.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/24/2017 12:47 PM, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>> I wasn't arguing that a CS degree generally isn't worth it. But if I
>>>> technically have a CS degree but I missed out on most of the benefits
>>>> it was supposed to bring, am I truly prepared or qualified for these
>>>> jobs that require CS degrees?
>>>>
>>>> On 2/24/17, John Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> The issue of the value of a degree has come up before on this list. In
>>>>> my capacity as President of IAVIT, I've talked to IT managers about
>>>>> this
>>>>> before. I happened to be on a run with a group of guys a couple of
>>>>> weeks
>>>>> ago. One of them was the manager of an IT department for a company with
>>>>> maybe a hundred employees in a handful of states.
>>>>> I brought up this issue about some blind people thinking a degree isn't
>>>>> worth it. He was, in turn, shocked, amused, then horrified. First he
>>>>> expressed surprise, then he made a little joke. Then when I explained
>>>>> it
>>>>> really was controversial, he was horrified. He said essentially that a
>>>>> blind person already has such an uphill battle that you really don't
>>>>> need to add not having a degree on top of it. He said they get so many
>>>>> applications for entry level positions that they don't need to bother
>>>>> with people who don't have a degree in CS or related field. They don't
>>>>> even bother with people who don't have degrees for a lot of mid-level
>>>>> positions.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I asked him, "Which would be worse, having a misspelling on your
>>>>> resume or not having a degree?" He said, "You know, quite honestly, the
>>>>> degree would be a bigger problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having a degree so greatly expands the number of positions you qualify
>>>>> for that is absolutely worth it especially for a blind person.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02/24/2017 06:31 AM, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>>> Amanda,
>>>>>> Worth while is the point I'm disagreeing with you on. Pretty much any
>>>>>> degree is "doable", but as you point out with some there's no point
>>>>>> because you won't be able to learn or do anything with that degree
>>>>>> once
>>>>>> you finish. That doesn't just apply to blind people either; there are
>>>>>> worthless degrees out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I am arguing is that it is in fact worth while. I studied
>>>>>> computer
>>>>>> science at a couple of schools. In both cases, I was able to learn the
>>>>>> material and I was able to complete most of the course work. There
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> a couple of situations where I needed some extra help, and there were
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> couple of major assignments I can remember where the professor had me
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> an alternative assignment. In those cases, it wasn't because I
>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>> do the work in question, it was because the visual aspects weren't the
>>>>>> point of the assignment and I could get the same information by doing
>>>>>> something else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for whether the degree is worth while from a career perspective,
>>>>>> well, you can have quite a lengthy discussion on that particular
>>>>>> question. As someone who has worked in the field for years, both with
>>>>>> and without a CS degree, what I will say about it is this. If you want
>>>>>> to work in the computer science field, as in the deep technical
>>>>>> aspects
>>>>>> of it and not just as a network admin or help desk rep or something
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> that, you almost have to have a computer science degree these days. It
>>>>>> is possible to get hired as a software developer or other highly
>>>>>> technical job without the degree, but it is not easy and the best jobs
>>>>>> go to those with the degree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/23/2017 13:34, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>>>> Joe,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree that it's doable. Whether it's worthwhile is another
>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>> I transferred to UT Austin because I loved programming and learning.
>>>>>>> Once there, I spent much more time struggling with access than I
>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>>> programming or learning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/22/17, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Amanda,
>>>>>>>> I have to disagree. I currently have an under grad degree in CS, and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> am working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time as a computer
>>>>>>>> scientist. There are some issues the blind will experience with
>>>>>>>> technical degrees that are unique to those degrees, but it's
>>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>> doable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2017 12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I have a CS degree. I cannot in good conscience recommend it to
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> blind students unless they accept that they will experience a lot
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> hurt. I don't have satisfying answers to most of your questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Andy,
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your response. Before answering your questions, I
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> preface
>>>>>>>>>> my response that this project is entirely predicated on ensuring
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>> students, who may be considering computer science, do not do what
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> did;
>>>>>>>>>> namely, believing that blind people cannot do computer science.
>>>>>>>>>> Now, your
>>>>>>>>>> questions:
>>>>>>>>>> (1) No University, community college, or vocational school is
>>>>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>>>>> this;
>>>>>>>>>> this is an assignment that I have received on behalf of the
>>>>>>>>>> Louisiana
>>>>>>>>>> Center
>>>>>>>>>> for the Blind (LCB) for my technology class.
>>>>>>>>>> (2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno, this past
>>>>>>>>>> December
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> an Honors B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in logic,
>>>>>>>>>> metaphysics, and
>>>>>>>>>> epistemology.
>>>>>>>>>> (3) This guide will serve to educate prospective computer science
>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>> who are blind. When I was in high school, I was extremely
>>>>>>>>>> interested in
>>>>>>>>>> doing computer science. I was told that blind people could not do
>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>>>> science; mistakenly, I believed this to be true and thus proceeded
>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> liberal arts. If I can provide clarity to other students thinking
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> computer science, or elucidate blind students when it comes to the
>>>>>>>>>> copasity
>>>>>>>>>> of blind people, I would be very happy. As it stands, the only
>>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> for sure this research will end up is the national Association of
>>>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>>>> Students website, as I sit on the board and can make that happen.
>>>>>>>>>> Otherwise,
>>>>>>>>>> I have no idea.
>>>>>>>>>> (4) This is true. I did not make this anonimis. If people are
>>>>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>>>> answer, I would be very happy, and will of course cite you, or not
>>>>>>>>>> cite
>>>>>>>>>> you,
>>>>>>>>>> depending on your permission. If people are not willing to, I
>>>>>>>>>> totally
>>>>>>>>>> understand that as well.
>>>>>>>>>> I hope I was able to address your concerns.
>>>>>>>>>> For anyone else who wishes to help me out, you can email your
>>>>>>>>>> responses
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> my email (mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel confortible,
>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>> responding to this thread.
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you again for all your attention and time!
>>>>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>>>>>> Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada.
>>>>>>>>>> Secretary, National Association of blind Students
>>>>>>>>>> Student, The Louisiana Center for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B.
>>>>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in answering these questions. However, you never
>>>>>>>>>> displayed
>>>>>>>>>> your credentials or qualifications in the subject. What school is
>>>>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>>>>> this study? Where did you graduate and with what degree? What do
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> intend
>>>>>>>>>> on doing with the guide when it is finished? The results of this
>>>>>>>>>> survey
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> not anonymous. Therefore, people might be hesitant.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
>>>>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Michael <mausbun at nevada.unr.edu>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello All:
>>>>>>>>>> My name is Michael Ausbun, and I am currently a student at the
>>>>>>>>>> Louisiana
>>>>>>>>>> Center for the Blind. I am conducting research, to develop a
>>>>>>>>>> comprehensive
>>>>>>>>>> guide for prospective computer science students. I would much
>>>>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> if you would take some time and answer the following questions.
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your attention in this matter.
>>>>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Research questions:
>>>>>>>>>> Advocacy:
>>>>>>>>>> (1) What accommodations do you believe were most beneficial to
>>>>>>>>>> you in
>>>>>>>>>> completing your degree?
>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodation(s) were necessary when completing visual
>>>>>>>>>> components
>>>>>>>>>> of one’s degree requirements?
>>>>>>>>>> (3) In what ways have you advocated for the modification of
>>>>>>>>>> materials to
>>>>>>>>>> ensure equal access for yourself or future computer science
>>>>>>>>>> students?
>>>>>>>>>> (4) What is the most important question(s) a computer science
>>>>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> ask their instructors before and during a selected course of
>>>>>>>>>> study?
>>>>>>>>>> (5) Are there any Universities, companies, or organizations who
>>>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>>>> greater benefactors?
>>>>>>>>>> Academics:
>>>>>>>>>> (1) How much math and science is necessary for a person to be
>>>>>>>>>> successful
>>>>>>>>>> within the computer science field.
>>>>>>>>>> (2) In general, are materials accessible with access
>>>>>>>>>> technology?
>>>>>>>>>> (3) What are some effective, and somewhat universal, techniques
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> manipulating and writing computer languages?
>>>>>>>>>> (4) In what ways did your assignments get modified, to
>>>>>>>>>> establish
>>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>> access to all requirements?
>>>>>>>>>> (5) What are some effective ways for designing accessible
>>>>>>>>>> algorithms and
>>>>>>>>>> data structures?
>>>>>>>>>> (6) When developing a portfolio, did you find an accessible way
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> publicly
>>>>>>>>>> displaying your code, or for hosting your portfolio?
>>>>>>>>>> (7) After publishing your code, what methods do you use to
>>>>>>>>>> ensure the
>>>>>>>>>> visible code is visually appealing or readable?
>>>>>>>>>> (8) Are there any courses you might recommend to take in high
>>>>>>>>>> school to
>>>>>>>>>> prepare someone going into the computer science field?
>>>>>>>>>> (9) Besides the source work required to obtain your degree,
>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>> additional
>>>>>>>>>> course work might you recommend to enhance one’s employment
>>>>>>>>>> effectiveness?
>>>>>>>>>> Access technology:
>>>>>>>>>> (1) What access technology gave you the greatest degree of
>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>>>>>> compete on an equal playing field with your peers?
>>>>>>>>>> (2) What challenges did access technology present when
>>>>>>>>>> interacting with
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> technology required to complete tasks and assignments for your
>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>>>> science degree or profession?
>>>>>>>>>> (3) What role does access technology play in the completion of
>>>>>>>>>> your daily
>>>>>>>>>> assignments or tasks?
>>>>>>>>>> (4) How might modifications to standard technology create more
>>>>>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>>>>>>> for usability with access technology?
>>>>>>>>>> General technology:
>>>>>>>>>> (1) In what ways is the general technology inaccessible when
>>>>>>>>>> paired with
>>>>>>>>>> access technology? Are there any work arounds for these issues?
>>>>>>>>>> (2) What sort of accommodations are necessary for the use of
>>>>>>>>>> most general
>>>>>>>>>> technology used in this field of study or profession?
>>>>>>>>>> (3) Can standard tasks be completed on a unit without extensive
>>>>>>>>>> modification
>>>>>>>>>> or accommodations?
>>>>>>>>>> Does most technology come ready to use? Are there ways to increase
>>>>>>>>>> one’s
>>>>>>>>>> productivity when using Python JavaScript C++ swift and racket,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> integrated development environments (IDEs)—such as CodeLite,
>>>>>>>>>> Eclipse,
>>>>>>>>>> NetBeans, VisualWX, Xcode, and KDevelop?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>
>
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