[nfbcs] Research

Tue Feb 28 15:49:08 UTC 2017

I basically agree with everything you've said except that I'd put a lot 
more qualifiers in. Most people aren't going to be able  to teach 
themselves how to program well enough to get a job. But there are going 
to be a lot of exceptions even on this list. It's not that it can't be 
done but you have to have a considerable amount of both talent and 
determination to do it.

I've mentored a lot of people, both blind and sighted,  over the years 
who were trying to break into IT by going the non-degree route. The vast 
majority of them have ended up frustrated and discouraged. They find it 
a lot harder than they expected to teach themselves and they find it 
difficult to find an employer to take their self-taught experience 
seriously. Again, I am not saying it can't be done but it is hard. 
Anyone who thinks it's a shortcut is almost certainly going to be 
disappointed.

On 02/27/2017 08:28 PM, David Tseng via nfbcs wrote:
> Self teaching is indeed valuable but it isn't enough. A degree with
> experience is what we're all looking for. Put another way, to be an
> attractive candidate to many employers, you should be well versed in both
> the theoretical and the practical. A CS degree comes with the somewhat
> stronger signal that you've at least done well enough in the theoretical to
> pass muster with a professor and/or a department. The practical usually
> comes through from interviews and any previous internships if you're a new
> grad. Internships are usually paid in software engineering, so that's a
> good option to go.
>
> Open source contributions are good, but relatively weak if you're not a
> major contributer.
>
> Though you can definitely do a lot to demonstrate your practical chops, I
> don't really know how you can get a good theoretical foundation without
> getting a CS degree. At the very least, you'll have trouble convincing
> someone.
>
> In the end, every little bit helps and I think the market does have some
> pretty stiff competition out there. Just browse Linked In and see the
> credentials of the people who work at the places you'd like to work.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Andy B. via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> If you can get experience through opensource projects. Most hiring managers
>> around here require boat loads of experience. Who wants an entry level (jr.
>> developer job) when it requires a B.S. in CS and 5+ years of experience?
>> Iam
>> sure contributing to opensource and building personal projects doesn't pay
>> the bills for 5 or more years. Most graduates have at least a $40K bill
>> from
>> school to pay back as well. We know the trend is for hiring organizations
>> to
>> keep the jobs just out of reach of recent graduates. What are we going to
>> do
>> about it? Most people start their own business, become freelance
>> developers,
>> or create a startup. Never forget that working for someone else is not your
>> only option.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher
>> Chaltain via nfbcs
>> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 11:54 AM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Christopher Chaltain <chaltain at gmail.com>; David Andrews
>> <dandrews at visi.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>>
>> It is true that a CS degree will not guarantee you a job, and it's also
>> true
>> that not everyone working in the technology field has a CS degree.
>> I've been a hiring manager in the technology field for over 15 years, and
>> I've worked for three different companies during that time. Most of the
>> positions I've helped staff have required a CS, CE or I degree or
>> equivalent
>> experience. Obviously, if you're a recent college graduate, it's going to
>> be
>> hard to have that equivalent experience if you don't have a technical
>> degree.
>>
>> My advice to anyone going into the technology field would be to pursue the
>> appropriate degree. If you want to go into software engineering then I'd
>> recommend a CS or a CE degree. If you want to go into some other area of IT
>> then an associates degree or a relevant certificate may be appropriate.
>>
>> Whether you have a technical degree or not, internship experience is key.
>> As
>> I think someone else pointed out, nothing prepares you for the real world
>> better than experience. Volunteering or contributing to an open source
>> project will also help you stand out by showing your commitment and
>> demonstrating your experience. All college graduates, especially from the
>> same university, look the same. Internships and other experience can help
>> you stand out.
>>
>> On 25/02/17 14:19, David Andrews via nfbcs wrote:
>>> Greg, I have no doubt that what you say is true. On the other hand,
>>> most people who hire entry-level people are going to consider
>>> blindness a strike against a person. Not having a CS degree is
>>> another, and this isn't baseball -- two strikes and you are out.
>>>
>>> We always need that little extra edge to end up in the same place.
>>> You can talk about overcoming countless accessibility obstacles to get
>>> your degree. This is a plus.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 01:49 PM 2/24/2017, you wrote:
>>>> This is going to sound odd but I work for a major technology company.
>>>> I can not think of a single person in my group with a CS degree. More
>>>> common in fact are fine arts degrees, like mine, history and
>>>> humanities and music. We have some people including a supervisor who
>>>> have no college degree at all, he came out of the military. We are
>>>> all doing very technical work much of which involves coding which we
>>>> all seemed to have learned as we needed it.
>>>>
>>>> So is having a CS degree a guarantee of a good job at a technology
>>>> firm? Silicon Valley is filled up with CS graduates working at
>>>> Starbucks so the answer is clearly no. IS not have such a degree
>>>> going to keep you form a career at such a firm, well my experience
>>>> the answer no as well.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Christopher (CJ)
>> chaltain at Gmail
>>
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