[nfbcs] FW: [program-l] Re: VS2017 Update 3, I'm back!

Wed Sep 27 18:24:41 UTC 2017

FYI. Since Dante Gagne has returned from sick leave at Microsoft, the conversation about the latest builds of Visual Studio has resumed on the Program-L listserv. The build which had many accessibility improvements was released last month.

Lloyd Rasmussen, Senior Staff Engineer
National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress
Washington, DC 20542   202-707-0535
http://www.loc.gov/nls/
The preceding opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress, NLS.

From: program-l-bounce at freelists.org [mailto:program-l-bounce at freelists.org] On Behalf Of Dante Gagne
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 2:09 PM
To: program-l at freelists.org
Subject: [program-l] Re: VS2017 Update 3, I'm back!

I’m chatting with my developers as we speak on how we could implement something like this. As Rodney and I discovered, there is some flexibility in the code… for instance the current line of execution doesn’t get announced each time as you step into/over.

These are tricky questions and I’m looking to put together mailings to folks to validate some of these usability improvements, just to make sure we don’t take steps backward. Like in this case, a keyboard toggle to enable or disable breakpoint announcements, a configuration option to read it first or last, etc… all of these are questions that I would love to know folks’ opinions on, and if those opinions are strongly varied, then configurability becomes critical.

I’ll be reaching out to folks in the near future for input on design questions like these, and for anyone who is interested in participating, please reach out to me directly (DanteG at microsoft.com<mailto:DanteG at microsoft.com>).

--Dante Gagne [MSFT]
Senior Program Manager
Visual Studio

From: program-l-bounce at freelists.org [mailto:program-l-bounce at freelists.org] On Behalf Of Florian Beijers
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 6:30 AM
To: program-l <program-l at freelists.org>
Subject: [program-l] Re: VS2017 Update 3, I'm back!

Indeed. I am mainly bringing it up as a point to consider ratherthan some kind of implementation demand. Configurability would be best, however a possible in-between solution would perhaps be to make a keyboard shortcut that toggles the announcement of breakpoints, et cetera. You'd have to ask if this is the responsibility of the VS team o if we want to make an addon for this in your sr of choice, mainly because you are basically defining what you want your sr to announce ...but thats a debate I don't want to get into since everyone's opinion on that one is different :)

2017-09-27 15:20 GMT+02:00 Rodney Haynie <RodneyH at infomc.com<mailto:RodneyH at infomc.com>>:
Yes, I agree that you would not want to hear something announced often when you are arrowing through like that, but since this is more of a few and far-between occurrence, it makes sense.
Yes, when I did bring this up, I mentioned that there are people that would prefer one way over the other, and that is why I brought it to the list for group discussion.

Yes, a tone would work well too, but we don’t want to break away from the braille users that have reduced hearing.

Like you said, configuration would be the absolute best, and maybe we will get there at some point in the future.

From: program-l-bounce at freelists.org<mailto:program-l-bounce at freelists.org> [mailto:program-l-bounce at freelists.org<mailto:program-l-bounce at freelists.org>] On Behalf Of Florian Beijers
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 7:36 AM
To: program-l <program-l at freelists.org<mailto:program-l at freelists.org>>
Subject: [program-l] Re: VS2017 Update 3, I'm back!

Although I agree with you that it should only be announced once, it being on beginning of a line may not be what everybody wants, i.e. I don't always want to hear breakpoint at the beginning of a line if I'm rapidly arrowing through code. Apart from making it configurable though, I doubt we can please everybody in that regard. I very much liked the nvda addon of playing a short blip when encountering a breakpoint, but this wouldn't be feasible for a mainstream solution because this is not something mainstream users want to hear, I'm assuming atleast.

2017-09-27 13:17 GMT+02:00 Rodney Haynie <RodneyH at infomc.com<mailto:RodneyH at infomc.com>>:
This is some information I provided to Dante, and thought it would benefit if I replied directly to the list as well.

When tracing through code in C#, When the run stops on a breakpoint, and you issue a say line, you will be read the line first , and then the word “breakpoint”. (Sometimes, I still have to figure out when and why, the word “breakpoint” is announced twice in a row. But I would prefer it only announce it once on a sayline)
I think the announcement of breakpoint should be spoken at the beginning of the line, and not after. Because if you are arrowing down through code, you don’t want to wait for each line to be spoken all the way through just to hear if it has a breakpoint or not.

The same request, of announcing the word “current” at the beginning of the line,  is for the current line indicator when you are tracing.

There are keystrokes to help us jump to things like breakpoints, and the current line, but I thought the above would help us be more productive when not issuing a keystroke to jump.

Thanks.
Rodney

From: program-l-bounce at freelists.org<mailto:program-l-bounce at freelists.org> [mailto:program-l-bounce at freelists.org<mailto:program-l-bounce at freelists.org>] On Behalf Of Dante Gagne
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 3:03 PM
To: program-l at freelists.org<mailto:program-l at freelists.org>
Subject: [program-l] VS2017 Update 3, I'm back!

Hey folks,

Just wanted to drop the list a note… I’m back from my medical leave (many thanks to the folks who sent kind messages while I was out), and I’m caught up on the VS issues that have been reported here. The issue with the autocomplete that was introduced with 15.3 is a known issue and I’m following up with the folks who were working on it when I left. As soon as I know something, I will respond back to the list with ways to fix the issue.

I know there were improvements around breakpoints, lightbulbs and the real time compiled feedback (commonly known as squiggles) with 15.3 and if folks have specific feedback on the usefulness of the features or our accessibility implementations, please feel free to send them to me directly (DanteG at microsoft.com<mailto:DanteG at microsoft.com>).

And of course, that goes for any feedback on Visual Studio in general. We implemented a LOT of fixed with Update 3 and to be completely honest, I’d be amazed if they all worked exactly correctly. So the feedback you give will go directly to my developers to get them fixed as quickly as we can.

Thanks all!
--Dante Gagne [MSFT]
Senior Program Manager
Visual Studio