[nfbcs] FW: Testing Center Accessability for the Blind Using Jaws for Windows

Sun Jul 29 00:58:24 UTC 2018

I would get the NFB involved. I don't know what to tell you to do. I got responses like this from my university and had to get the department of education involved. You cannot use a reader and go through the mouse clicks because the point is that you interface with the computer completely differently than A cited user. You do not know what they do with the mouse and you do not know what the various icons look like. I wish these segregated testing centers would be against the law because they pose an undue burden, or inhumane, and expect you to sit for five and six hours if you have extra time on a test without being able to take a break or use the restroom. I made it so that I did not have to take test in the testing center for people with disabilities. You do not have to test there by law. If that place does not have the drivers to be able to allow you to take your test, then the school is required to find a place where you can take your test. You aren't telling me that there is not a single computer on that entire campus that can't run jaws. Know what! I would take a step further. After they find you a place where you can take this test, you need to get it written into your accommodation letter that you are never to  test in the testing center. When I was in school, they put on my accommodation letter that I needed to test and a distraction free environment when I never requested that as an accommodation and they were using that as a way to try to force me into the testing center. All you need to say is that you cannot have equal access in the testing center, which you can't. Even if they can get Jaws working, you will not be able to get the professor involved if there is a problem with the test and other things like that. What I ended up doing is testing with my class, testing in the computer lab, or testing in an empty room that my department was not using. I would use campus computers that log down all of your keystrokes and someone would watch me, so testing security was not a problem. But just so you know, the law mentions nothing about testing centers or disability offices. This is how universities have chosen to respond to the law. I don't know what to tell you to do. I would tell you to get the department of education involved like I did, but there are apparently problems with that as you may have heard from the programming at convention. If you are able to though, I would file a complaint with them right now. I am not joking. You will regret it if you don't. Your university does not have the right attitude and they are not in compliance with the law. They do not choose your accommodations. You choose your accommodations. Yes, the accommodation does have to be reasonable, but trust me, having a computer with a screen reader on it and using that to take a test is considered reasonable. Be a bit snappy if you have to. I hate to say this, but being Mr. nice guy is not going to get you what you need. You will hear other blind people who have never been to college or who went to a special program at the University like social work that had a lot of blind people in it say that you would just get what you need if you were just nicer, if you were just more adaptable, if you were just more tolerant. I am sorry, but that did not work with me. I am not in anyway advocating screaming, yelling, being disrespectful, or being belligerent. However, you don't have to be all nice and lovey-dovey and we all love each other and we are all in cooperation either. You can say, you know what? You are violating the law. These are my accommodations. Or you can even say, I'm sorry. It sounds like you are choosing my accommodations for me. I already chose some reasonable accommodations and I expect to be receiving those. Thank you. When responding to the university, mention the following things:
They are choosing your accommodations for you when you have chosen reasonable accommodations already
They are required to provide a testing environment that allows for the use of your reasonable accommodations, and if the testing center cannot provide that environment, they are required to provide a different environment
The suggested accommodations are not even an equivalent compromise to the accommodations you requested because you interface with the computer differently than a sighted person, And this method would unfairly be testing your ability to provide instructions to a reader. Further, we do not memorize sets of instructions to accomplish tasks. We interact with the computer through an dynamic process where our actions and responses change based on the computer's response.

Think of it this way. If you could just give someone instructions like the university is suggesting, even if you interface with the computer in the same way that the other person does, you can't do it. That's why we have remote access and why some people have to take their computers in to be serviced. A tech-support agent can't give instructions for everything on the phone. Even if it is possible, I am assuming hear that you are learning how to program. You are not learning how to be a tech-support agent and give the correct instructions to someone who doesn't know what they're doing. This solution is not acceptable at all. You will be setting yourself up for failure. I know from experience that you should not take the test rather than except this solution. I know that at times you may have to use a reader to overcome the schools accessibility barriers, but in this case, a reader will not work at all. The only reason I would suggest taking the test with these accommodations is if you can't make any headway and you know you are going to fail the test, but you need that for documentation purposes to prove that you knew the material and that you failed the test because of the accommodations. This can be some great documentation for the department of education. Use TeamViewer and take some recordings of your screen at home to show that you know what is on the syllabus and you know the homework and that it is because of the testing accommodations that you are having trouble. You are already doing your homework anyways, so you might as well just record it. The University will try to do everything they can to get out of it. They will not just admit that they were wrong and that they will do better. They will throw you under the bus as many times as possible. They will do anything they can to make sure that that complaint does not go forward with mediation. The only way you can win against the university is with documentation. There is no way they can lie about what they are doing if it has been documented. Also, you need to go into your classes with a victor stream or some other device. I know that sighted people suggest recording the classes all the time even though it doesn't help and if you can't understand anything because you don't have the correct accommodations, they will tell you just to listen to your recording of the class again. I am not talking about that. You will be recording these classes for a different reason and if possible, I would even encourage you to take video. Before you take video though, please talk to your NFB a Filion about this. I am sure they will agree with me on what I am going to suggest, but you need their help to figure out the video laws in your state. You will be in a place where they do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy, but some states do you have different recording and videoing laws. Some states do you say that you needed to have consent to record your classes if it is not a one party state, but disability offices are all too eager to put on your accommodation letter that you can record classes because they don't have to do anything and they can use it as a cop out for denying you actual accommodations that you need. So to cover your bases, you should make sure you have this ridiculous accommodation that doesn't really help on your letter. Then, record the classes, but get a device where you can create bookmarks. Every time you face and accessibility barrier in the class, record that and book market. Quietly talk into the recorder and say what the problem is. For example, you can say, the professor will not read what is on the board, the professor will not describe the slide and I do not have an accessible PowerPoint, and so forth. These recordings will also be proof that you are in the classes. One of my professors tried to lie and say I was not at the class. I did not do what I am suggesting to you because this was my first time going through this and I did not know that the department of education would have to get involved. The professor knew I was at the classes, but he thought he could lie his way out of it. Luckily, the University had cameras and I had other ways to prove that I was at the classes. The main weight that I had to prove I was there was that I had a reader at one point who is in class with me and the reader was able to testify that I was at many of the classes that the professor said I wasn't at. I can just tell by this response that you are going to have other problems so you need to get ready for this. Discuss this with your NSP affiliate. Affiliates are their own entity from national, so different affiliates may respond differently. With all of the problems universities have been causing a blind students, all affiliates should know that when a blind person comes to them with problems of this sort, it could be serious and in at least deserves a look, but if your affiliate does not think it is serious or does not know what to do, then just bring that issue up to the state. However, the optimal solution would be that your affiliate can help. If they are a newer affiliate or don't know what to do, remind them that they can reach out to other members of the organization. Also, notify your department chair of these concerns and document that as well. If they agree to have a meeting with you, ask them to send you a summary of the meeting in writing or send them a summary of it to make sure you understood what they said. For example, you could say, in our meeting today, I believe we decided on blah blah blah. Is that correct? If the department chair refuses to meet with you or refers you to the office of students with disabilities, try to insist on a meeting, but still document that. If the meeting with the department chair is not working out, then go to the dean of students and repeat the same process. Also be talking to your affiliate and have the department of education thing going at the same time. You want to try to ask for help in as many ways as possible. If multiple methods come through, that is great, but only one or two things may come through. The more ways you ask for help, the more back up methods you have, The harder it becomes for the university to deny their ignorance of a problem, and the more likely it becomes that you can get this resolved fast enough so that you will not have to retake classes, develop anxiety, or have your graduation impacted. If your university has a student equity services office, put a complaint there too. It will be easier than you think because you can just have the text of your complaint written out and just send it to wherever you need. And note that even if it takes a while for your complaints to get through, you can update those complaints or withdraw them at any time so just put in a complaint with the information you have now. And one last thing. Go through your accommodation letter and make sure you know exactly what they have put on it. These offices are very bad at updating your accommodation letter, so make sure that things are on it like the professor needs to say what is written on the board and literally everything. There is not a limit to the number of accommodations that you have on your letter. If you officially have that accommodation on your letter, then it is in writing and the university has said that you will receive it. If you don't receive it, it becomes harder for them to justify. I know it can be hard, especially if you are like me and do not think of things in terms of the disability model, but just go through your day and start writing things down. Anything that could be considered an accommodation, just get it on your letter. You can also get on your letter that for certain types of tests, you need access to a computer with a screen reader. What I ended up doing is just scrapping the disability office and getting my accommodations arranged directly through my department. You can do this as well. There is no law that says you have to use the stupid disability office. If they are responsive enough, you can tell them the  department has agreed to do such and such so they can be updated, but if communicating with them is presenting an undue burden and keeping your letter updated through them is becoming a challenge, then just make sure you have everything in writing.

Sabra Ewing

> On Jul 28, 2018, at 2:23 PM, Jim Fettgather via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> But now here is what I find particularly interesting. 14  years ago, you did need a reader to read the questions, but you could use jaws on the testing center computer to complete the task. If you listen to jaws very rapidly, and are really good with hotkeys, this is a fantastic Scenario. But can you imagine trying to instruct someone verbally to press the hot keys for you, that would be completely impossible and unrealistic, it would never work! I cannot imagine completing a test using this method in the allotted time.
> 
> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
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> ________________________________
> From: 32541400300n behalf of
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 5:42 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Bryan Schulz
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] FW: Testing Center Accessability for the Blind Using Jaws for Windows
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Yep, the same as 14 years ago!
> Bryan Schulz
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jim Fettgather via nfbcs
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 4:00 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jim Fettgather <jfettgather at alphapointe.org>
> Subject: [nfbcs] FW: Testing Center Accessability for the Blind Using Jaws for Windows
> 
> Here is what looks like an official response from the accommodations team at Certiport.
> From: doreen.okuku at pearson.com <doreen.okuku at pearson.com> On Behalf Of Accommodations Certiport, -
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 3:21 PM
> To: Jim Fettgather <jfettgather at alphapointe.org>
> Subject: Re: Testing Center Accessability for the Blind Using Jaws for Windows
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Thank you for your inquiry. During testing, the test taker may direct the recorder to use the mouse by giving explicit step-by-step instructions. The recorder may not prompt the test taker and is limited to performing one mouse click/keyboard command per single direction from the test taker. Communication between the test taker and reader/recorder is limited to clarification of instructions only.
> 
> Regarding screen readers, Certiport is currently updating our exam drivers and exams to improve the compatibility of the exams we deliver with screen readers. For students who have these accommodations in their school at this time we are approving the use of a human reader and separate room in addition to extended time.
> 
> Please let us know if you have any other questions.
> 
> Thank you,
> Here is the letter I originally wrote:
> I have spent an hour on the phone with Certiport trying to get what should be a fairly simple answer regarding the testing process for earning certification in Microsoft Word 2016.
> 
> I understand that a user who has a visual impairment may request accommodations such as a reader and a recorder.
> 
> In the test taking process, does the test taker instruct the recorder to use point and click methods or keyboard commands to complete specific tasks for the test, or can a blind individual request that a screen reader such as Jaws for Windows be installed on the testing computer.
> This was the case for certifications that I had earned in 2004, but I do not have any idea how the testing environment has changed, nor will anyone give me a meaningful or substantive answer.
> Why is that?
> I would really appreciate knowing how the test taker relays information to the “recorder” so that they may complete the requested tasks on the computer.
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> Jim Fettgather
> Adaptive Technology Instructor
> End of correspondence.
> 
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