[nfbcs] purpose of division

Blake Hardin blakehardin5487 at gmail.com
Sun Nov 25 08:34:46 UTC 2018


Speaking of captia, does anyone know if Webvism still works at all? I
have to log in somewhere and no audio captia exists.

On 11/24/18, Bryan Schulz via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It was noticed with explorer and firefox.
> Bryan Schulz
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon via nfbcs
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 5:22 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Aaron Cannon <cannona at fireantproductions.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] purpose of division
>
> Which browser are you on?
>
> This appears to be a ReCAPTCHA, which tend to work a lot better if you
> first
> login to your google account in the same browser first.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Aaron
>
> On 11/24/18, Bryan Schulz via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thank you for providing an overview.
>> This was not the first time I have found this style of captia, it just
>> seems to be found more often and spurred irritation.
>> The site was www.rc10.com and the captia is found after hitting the
>> login link then the create account link.
>> There was a chance for an audio challenge but jaws said it was not
>> available.
>> Bryan Schulz
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson via
>> nfbcs
>> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 2:45 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] purpose of division
>>
>> Bryan,
>>
>> When trying to figure out the purpose of your messages I am always
>> left wondering if you really want an answer to questions or are you
>> just wanting a chance to take a shot at us.  I think, though, there is
>> a reasonable chance that trying to answer your questions is worthwhile.
>>
>> First, I don't know that NFBCS was ever seen as a vehicle for general
>> advocacy.  That has always been more a function of our national
>> organization as a whole.  As a long-time NFBCS member and officer, I
>> do feel we serve a useful purpose by working with specific companies
>> with which we have had long-term relationships and by trying to make
>> information available.  Also, people on this list can sometimes be a
>> useful resource in finding workarounds.  Collectively, we have
>> expertise that can help to understand why a problem exists and maybe
>> even help to prioritize which problems can likely be solved easily and
>> which cannot.
>>
>> I readily admit that it is sometimes difficult to know where it is
>> best to bring a concern about accessibility, though.  Sometimes some
>> of us can help with that.  The cold hard facts, though, are that we
>> still have too many accessibility issues to successfully deal with
>> every one brought to our attention.  One of the areas I volunteer in is
> dealing with Microsoft.
>> There are so many issues even with Microsoft that we are not able to
>> push all of them effectively, even though we've seen a good deal of
> progress.
>> Also, we need people who actually have the experience with a given
>> problem to help.  I know nothing about the testing software you
>> mention so can't deal with specifics of that very effectively.  I
>> don't remember exactly how you brought the accessible
>> comptia/Microsoft testing software  issues to NFBCS, but this isn't an
>> issue with which I was familiar.  If you describe the issue in more
>> detail, I am certainly willing to raise it with Microsoft whenever I
>> am next in a meeting with them.  Even so, sometimes we have to decide
>> where to push hardest.  An issue like this sometimes gets less
>> emphasis than an issue like not being able to enter a password in
>> Outlook when the credentials screen doesn't get focus because that may
> affect more people.
>>
>> One also has to understand that there is no law that says everything
>> has to be accessible.  There are clear laws that require accessibility
>> in specific cases, but this means that we can't just launch a lawsuit
>> for any accessibility issue.  Sometimes the law covers institutions
>> that use a given pice of software and not the actual creators of
>> software, for example.
>> This
>> doesn't mean there isn't anything that can be done, but it can affect
>> the path taken, and it often means that solutions take a long time to
>> find.  We need help from our members sometimes to really understand a
>> problem and to document it and help us move forward with it.
>>
>> Finally, CAPTCHAs are a real challenge.  Some of us have been trying
>> to affect their use for a long time.  I share your fear that the use
>> of AIRA, Be My Eyes, and other such solutions may give some companies
>> an excuse not to do anything, and this cannot become acceptable.
>> Audio CAPTCHAs are pretty common now and you didn't say if the company
>> you dealt with had one or not.  This is a fairly accepted solution
>> among those who require CAPTCHAs, but it still leaves out those who
>> have both vision and hearing loss.  My experience has been that audio
>> CAPTCHAs are more reliable now than they have been in the past.  I
>> have personally looked at some alternatives that appear to work but
>> turn out to have limitations.  When you look at the ability of SIRI,
>> Alexa, and Google Home to analyze and break down the syntax of
>> questions asked of them, it is clear that most word problem solutions
>> offer limited protection from robots attempting to gain access to a
> system.
>> It is starting to appear that Google is a major player in CAPTCHAs,
> though.
>> Many companies use Google's CAPTCHA service.  Possibly that may
>> provide a useful pressure point.
>>
>> Bryan, I realize this is probably not a satisfactory answer.  Also,
>> the president of NFBCS may have more to say on this as well.  However,
>> laying out the specific problems you are having, even on this list,
>> can be helpful by making more of us aware of what people are
>> encountering.  Also, sometimes, it may turn out somebody else has
>> found a workaround or may be further along in pursuing a solution.
>> Finally, sometimes it is helpful to those of us who volunteer in this
>> area to be reminded of the common frustrations being encountered.
>> This can help us know, both as the NFBCS division and as an
>> organization as a whole, how we can most effectively approach issues.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz via
>> nfbcs
>> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 3:49 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> Subject: [nfbcs] purpose of division
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> This may be a bit off topic because it is actually a web site issue.
>>
>> In my opinion the cs division doesn't do much especially towards
>> advocacy with topics that affect using computers/web sites.
>>
>> Several months ago, there was no interest by the division to address
>> cisco software or the topic of accessible comptia/Microsoft testing
> software.
>>
>>
>>
>> My point today deals with website captia systems.
>>
>> You have probably had to ask for visual assistance with what happens
>> after you check the box with the words 'I am not a robot'.
>>
>> Blind computer users are not going to know which pictures to click
>> when the instruction says something like click all of the stop signs.
>>
>> You will probably react by saying use aira and the person will tell
>> you where to move the mouse.
>>
>> Well the cheapest plan is about $50 a month for only 60 minutes of
>> help time and that shouldn't be required.
>>
>> I had to place an order today to get a great deal and couldn't wait
>> for someone to respond from the company and was able to create an
>> account after obtaining visual assistance.
>>
>>
>>
>> I continue to feel left to flap in the wind by the nfb/nfbcs and it
>> seems nothing is done once a year other than asking several people to
>> speak at the division meeting at the convention.
>>
>> I'm sure this will ruffle feathers but so what, nothing is being done
>> anyway so tell me the purpose of the division!
>>
>>
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
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>>
>>
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>>
>
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