[nfbcs] JAWS JAWS JAWS
Doug Lee
dgl at dlee.org
Mon Feb 4 18:44:03 UTC 2019
Ah yes, more to include in my part about five hours per day being higher than reality for customer issue handling, indeed.
More than that though, you have hit on the head a fear I have begun developing just in the last few weeks:
We have companies out there that still use very old software. Old Delphi apps, VB apps, and other cases where there is zero built-in support for accessibility. These are the things that made us use the OSM for many years; but
that is going away and being replaced by newer, and usually better, technologies.
But not at these companies where old apps are still in use. Within the last two years, I had a case where a company asked me (as part of Level Access) to recommend one among several alternative software packages to solve a
problem. Accessibility was to be my primary criterion for my recommendation. My recommendation was for a newer package that appeared to contain MSAA and/or UIA support. The company, however, elected an older alternative though
I had pointed out its profound lack of such support. I'm sure this was done for business reasons, or at least reasons outside of accessibility; but there I was, looking at complex controls and screens full of nameless fields
with no way reliably to name or support them except via use of the OSM.
I hasten to point out that the accessibility issues in this case did not prove insurmountable. My fear, though, is the actual removal of the OSM, or at least its slow wasting away, under the theory that it should cease to be
necessary. Sadly, I think the OSM will remain necessary for a long time, just because of how long it can take all companies to update software. The problem of getting a fortune 500 company to update a key application to support
a few blind employees... well... that's a big picture I choose not to spend time painting today. :-)
I will now address my concern with Vispero directly.
On Mon, Feb 04, 2019 at 12:18:20PM -0600, NFBCS mailing list wrote:
Doug,
While I would agree with your description of the problem, I think there is a
significant aspect that also needs to be included. That is the role of
Microsoft in all of this. In the current world, all of us are being forced
to some degree to accept updates to Windows and to Microsoft Office. This
is even true in the corporate world even if there is still some lag. Screen
reader developers have to deal with whatever Microsoft throws at them
because to not do so could cause serious issues for all customers. This
likely hits JAWS harder than NVDA because there is more old code and support
for older apps than there is in NVDA, although this certainly impacts NVDA
as well.
I have my complaints with aspects of JAWS that seem to remain unchanged over
time, and I wish we better understood which system processes are responsible
for differences in behavior so we could help figure out why some problems
are hard to duplicate. However, it is going to continue to be difficult for
screen readers to handle the changes required by Microsoft in today's
environment. Further, I don't think it makes sense for us to campaign to
slow down the rate of change because it is a fact across all computer
companies and not just Microsoft and it won't slow down. We need to think
about how change can be better handled across the board. Some of us
continue to try to make sure Microsoft is aware of cases where the impact of
their activities affect us to a greater degree than their general customer
base, and we have been somewhat successful, but this is an on-going process.
These are challenging times for people like us and for screen reader
developers as well.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Doug Lee via nfbcs
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:25 AM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Doug Lee <dgl at dlee.org>
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] JAWS JAWS JAWS
An Economics 101 story problem, where numbers are fictitious since I don't
have real ones:
A company has 50 employees and 50,000 customers. In an average month, 1000
work requests from customers come in. Each employee has approximately five
hours out of each day in a five-day work week
directly for handling customer work requests. The average time required to
fill each of the 1,000 submitted requests is estimated at ten hours, because
of the need to test carefully after each one to make sure that the changes
it produces do not upset something else that could affect all 50,000
customers.
The company's CEO does the math and figures out that
- One employee needs an average of two days to fill one request.
- If all 50 employees work solidly, this means 25 requests per day will be
filled on average.
- Under ideal conditions, this translates to 40 business days of work to
fill all pending requests from one month.
- In an average month, accounting for holidays, there are about 20 business
days.
- This means that current request-handling capacity is only half of what is
needed to fill all requests.
You are the CEO. Which of the following is your plan for handling this
problem?
1. Hire more employees, thus forcing the price of the product to increase.
2. Filter the work requests down so that only half actually require work.
(Keep in mind, this filtering process itself will also take some of those
employee hours, besides disappointing a lot of customers.)
3. Force employees to fill twice as many requests in the same amount of
time, thus risking quality control problems.
4. A solution that escaped my attention. This is entirely possible; I'm not
a CEO. :-)
Disclaimers:
- I bet the customer count is higher for Vispero. Not sure about employee
count.
- I also think 20 days is a high estimate for number of business days in a
month averaged over a year for the average private-sector company.
- Ten hours per request is an average and is ment to account for a whole
host of things, including occasional major issue resolution requests,
required research, testing on multiple systems, Windows versions, etc.
- Five hours per day for customer requests is probably above reality for
Vispero; after all, even if you ignore meetings and other normal company
hum-drum, innovation and independent research and experimentation are part
of
the job of a screen reader developer/maintainer.
On Mon, Feb 04, 2019 at 11:42:41AM -0500, NFBCS mailing list wrote:
Don't you hate when a company refuses to patch certain bugs?
On 2/4/2019 6:39 AM, Vincent Martin via nfbcs wrote:
> I have the same problem as well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of David Andrews via
nfbcs
> Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 12:51 AM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] JAWS JAWS JAWS
>
> I have had that problem for the last couple builds. I reported it to JAWS
> at least six months ago, and they said they couldn't reproduce it. I have
> it on three different machines.
>
> Dave
>
> At 11:30 PM 2/3/2019, you wrote:
> > Is anyone else having the problem with the latest update of JAWS that
> > it keeps repeating itself unless you press control? It happens the most
> > for me in the message list of Outlook.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nicole
>
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Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee at LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them
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