[NFBCS] Accessible math content

Tue Jul 16 15:44:05 UTC 2019

Hi Glen,
I appreciate this advice, I'll give it a shot and update on my thoughts-perhaps this solves literally all of my issues in one go!
Best,

--
Michael Duane Ausbun, MA
Specialist, Learning Experience,
Universal Design and Accessibility Team
Salt Lake City, Utah
[WGU Learning Experience]

Western Governors University
4001 South 700 East, Suite 700
Salt Lake City, UT 84107
Michael.ausbun at wgu.edu

[Western Governors University]<wgu.edu>

From: Glen Gordon <GGordon at Vispero.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:40 AM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Michael Ausbun <michael.ausbun at wgu.edu>
Subject: RE: [NFBCS] Accessible math content

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] WARNING: Be wise. Be cautious.

When JAWS says math content when you're reading inside a browser, you can press Enter to go into the Math Viewer where you can explore the equation in bite sized pieces.

--Glen

Glen Gordon
Vispero(tm) | Software Fellow
17757 US Highway 19 N, Suite 560, Clearwater, FL 33764
T 727-803-8000 F 727-803-8001
ggordon at vispero.com<mailto:ggordon at vispero.com>
www.vispero.com<http://www.vispero.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Michael Ausbun via NFBCS
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:13 AM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: Michael Ausbun <michael.ausbun at wgu.edu<mailto:michael.ausbun at wgu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Accessible math content

Hello All:
I agree, having math content in braille is extremely helpful...for those who are braille readers. With less than 10% of blind people being fluent in literary braille, and likely less in nemeth or another math output, I want to have another, equally effective alternative.
MathML seems to be the main suggestion folks have provided, but I find it only a partial solution. When using JAWS, mathML content is read much like old-school alt-text. I.E. in one continuous string of text. For example, 2 times 3 times 4 squared would be read, "TwoDotOpperatorThreeDotOpperatorFourSquared.mathContent". Without additional support, NVDA seems to associate mathML content as an empty alt-text atrabute, I.E. "", and voiceover (OSX and IOS) have hit and miss. This does not even include the interesting effects depending on the user agent being used.
When I think about accessible math content, I am thinking about those folks newly blind or blind for a time, who may or may not have technical knowledge beyond basic use of their technology. With increasing numbers in blind folks over the age of 55, and with the lack of good blindness education, I fear our solutions are less than adequate. I don't know what the solution is, though.
Its been suggested to me that mathplayer plus NVDA is the way to go, but even this solution seems overly complicated for some users.
I appreciate everyone's suggestions so far! Many thanks!

--
Michael Duane Ausbun, MA
Specialist, Learning Experience,
Universal Design and Accessibility Team
Salt Lake City, Utah
[WGU Learning Experience]

Western Governors University
4001 South 700 East, Suite 700
Salt Lake City, UT 84107
Michael.ausbun at wgu.edu<mailto:Michael.ausbun at wgu.edu>

[Western Governors University]<wgu.edu>

From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Sabra Ewing via NFBCS
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2019 7:38 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com<mailto:sabra1023 at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Accessible math content

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] WARNING: Be wise. Be cautious.

I also need grout. It is not a preference. However, I think if you use math and Mel, that will make it read the equations by sound alone. Whether the person can actually do math without being able to read is another question, but I guess if you made the content accessible, that is their issue. Who knows. Maybe they listen some, and they also use large print.

Sabra Ewing

> On Jul 15, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Amanda Lacy via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
>
> Me too! I need Braille! The head of the Disabled Office at my college
> called it a preference. I asked her, "how many sighted students do you
> think would pass calculus if they only had books on tape?" She said
> "no one".
>
> Is this online college open to everyone in the world? What does it
> cost? I've been disappointed by online course platforms before but
> that was a while ago. I'd enjoy learning something without stressing
> about Braille.
>
>> On 7/15/19, Louis Maher via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
>> Hello Michael,
>>
>> Personally I am incapable of doing mathematics using sound alone. I
>> need Braille.
>>
>> My exper
>>
>> Regards
>> Louis Maher
>> Phone: 713-444-7838
>> E-mail ljmaher03 at outlook.com<mailto:ljmaher03 at outlook.com<mailto:ljmaher03 at outlook.com%3cmailto:ljmaher03 at outlook.com>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NFBCS
>> <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf
>> Of Michael Ausbun via NFBCS
>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2019 2:30 PM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>>>
>> Cc: Michael Ausbun
>> <michael.ausbun at wgu.edu<mailto:michael.ausbun at wgu.edu<mailto:michael.ausbun at wgu.edu%3cmailto:michael.ausbun at wgu.edu>>>
>> Subject: [NFBCS] Accessible math content
>>
>> Greetings Federation Family,
>> At work, I am working on a project right now, to ensure equal access
>> for *all* people to our math content. We are an entirely online
>> university. We have fairly consistent results rendering our math
>> content into accessible electronic braille, but we are looking for a
>> solution for those users who may not be braille readers or who are
>> not strong braille users. Although we could provide readers (and have
>> in the past), we would like to discover a consistent, accessible
>> solution to allow screen readers to interpret and properly convey content of math equations to our students.
>> Doing lots of research, I have found a lot of conflicting
>> information, and I thought who better to ask than my federation
>> family. Any suggestions would be highly valued!
>> As I understand it, the issue here seems to consistently be both user
>> agent related or assistive technology related (inclusive disjunction,
>> here).
>> Respectfully,
>> michael
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Duane Ausbun, MA
>> Specialist, Learning Experience,
>> Universal Design and Accessibility Team Salt Lake City, Utah [WGU
>> Learning Experience]
>>
>> Western Governors University
>> 4001 South 700 East, Suite 700
>> Salt Lake City, UT 84107
>> Michael.ausbun at wgu.edu<mailto:Michael.ausbun at wgu.edu<mailto:Michael.ausbun at wgu.edu%3cmailto:Michael.ausbun at wgu.edu>>
>>
>>
>> [Western Governors University]<wgu.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: NFBCS
>> <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf
>> Of Brian Buhrow via NFBCS
>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2019 1:17 PM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>>>
>> Cc: Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org<mailto:buhrow at nfbcal.org<mailto:buhrow at nfbcal.org%3cmailto:buhrow at nfbcal.org>>>; Bryan
>> Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net<mailto:b.schulz at sbcglobal.net<mailto:b.schulz at sbcglobal.net%3cmailto:b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>>>
>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] i am not a robot
>>
>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] WARNING: Be wise. Be cautious.
>>
>> hello. We just learned this week that Be My Eyes has contracts with
>> Google and Microsoft to provide free support for issues using their
>> services. They claim this is an in to their engineering departments.
>> For the capcha problem, I suggest trying Be My Eyes with the new
>> professional support service so Google gets to experience, first
>> hand, what it's like to use their service for the blind on third party web sites.
>>
>> -thanks
>> -Brian
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NFBCS mailing list
>> NFBCS at nfbnet.org<mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org<mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org%3cma<mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org%3cma>
>> ilto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn>
>> et.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org<http://et.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org> &data=02%7C01%7C%7C
>> b433aa7059824c8d6bbb08d7095b15bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7
>> C1%7C0%7C636988159113562093&sdata=QiBpXVlMtkfOO4XmYr84H0dyBbgwzt4
>> Hq379YtjVJz8%3D&reserved=0<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.out
<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.out%0b>>> look.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnfbcs_nf<http://look.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnfbcs_nf>
>> bnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb433aa7059824c8d6bbb08d7095b15bb%7C84d
>> f9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636988159113562093&sdata=
>> QiBpXVlMtkfOO4XmYr84H0dyBbgwzt4Hq379YtjVJz8%3D&reserved=0><https:
>> //nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org<http://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org>
>> %2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnfbcs_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb433aa
>> 7059824c8d6bbb08d7095b15bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C636988159113562093&sdata=QiBpXVlMtkfOO4XmYr84H0dyBbgwzt4Hq379Y
>> tjVJz8%3D&reserved=0<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.c
<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.c%0b>>> om/?url=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.o<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.o>
>> rg&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb433aa7059824c8d6bbb08d7095b15bb%7C84df9e7fe
>> 9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636988159113562093&sdata=QiBpXV
>> lMtkfOO4XmYr84H0dyBbgwzt4Hq379YtjVJz8%3D&reserved=0>>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NFBCS:
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn>
>> et.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/michael.ausbun at wgu<http://et.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/michael.ausbun@wgu>.
>> edu&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb433aa7059824c8d6bbb08d7095b15bb%7C84df9e7f
>> e9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636988159113562093&sdata=F4ngp
>> 17h8GHCbRrFh%2Bxk3IE1vm%2BTDgMFApqfC0m%2FHNg%3D&reserved=0<https:
>> //nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org<http://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org>
>> %2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnfbcs_nfbnet.org%2Fmichael.ausbun%40wgu.edu&am
>> p;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb433aa7059824c8d6bbb08d7095b15bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640
>> afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636988159113562093&sdata=F4ngp17h8GH
>> CbRrFh%2Bxk3IE1vm%2BTDgMFApqfC0m%2FHNg%3D&reserved=0><https://nam
<https://nam%0b>>> 04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fma<http://04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fma>
>> ilman%2Foptions%2Fnfbcs_nfbnet.org%2Fmichael.ausbun%40wgu.edu&dat
>> a=02%7C01%7C%7Cb433aa7059824c8d6bbb08d7095b15bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb43
>> 5aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636988159113572104&sdata=hIP1v6nsk16lsHMo
>> LmpXNNfVDs7cCpHOJkCRfHE1szE%3D&reserved=0<https://nam04.safelinks
<https://nam04.safelinks%0b>>> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Fopti<http://protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Fopti>
>> ons%2Fnfbcs_nfbnet.org%2Fmichael.ausbun%40wgu.edu&data=02%7C01%7C
>> %7Cb433aa7059824c8d6bbb08d7095b15bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
>> a%7C1%7C0%7C636988159113572104&sdata=hIP1v6nsk16lsHMoLmpXNNfVDs7c
>> CpHOJkCRfHE1szE%3D&reserved=0>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NFBCS mailing list
>> NFBCS at nfbnet.org<mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org<mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org><http://nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org>
>> /mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NFBCS:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/lacy925@gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/lacy925@gmail.com><
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/lacy925@gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/lacy925@gmail.com>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NFBCS mailing list
> NFBCS at nfbnet.org<mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org<mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org><http://nfbnet.org/<http://nfbnet.org/>
> mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NFBCS:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/sabra1023@gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/sabra1023@gmail.com>
> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/sabra1023@gmail.co<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/sabra1023@gmail.co>
> m>

_______________________________________________
NFBCS mailing list
NFBCS at nfbnet.org<mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org<mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>>
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NFBCS:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/michael.ausbun@wgu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/michael.ausbun@wgu.edu><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/michael.ausbun@wgu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/michael.ausbun@wgu.edu>>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 14480 bytes
Desc: image001.png
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20190716/b06cd50b/attachment.png>