[Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
Patricia A. Lipovsky
plipovsky at cfl.rr.com
Tue Dec 1 12:27:49 UTC 2009
Thank You David. and by the way, I didn't forget about you, just been very
busy over Thanksgiving with guests in town etc. Will get back in touch as
soon as I can.
----- Original Message -----
From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
> Hello Patricia,
>
> I'm sorry if you feel like your in the middle, believe meI didn't feel
> like you were taking sides or anything else. Nobody kills the messenger
> and if we don't bring everything out for people to respond to then how do
> we settle our differences. I as well as many others Thank You for passing
> along Charles message. Change is hard sometimes as people get comfortable
> it's just human nature butsomething has to change. We've chatted on the
> phone a month or so ago and I've heard you are a very knowledgeable and
> caring person, please don't drop back in the shadows and take what life
> gives you, take what you want from life and help as many people as you can
> along the way.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>
>
>>I agree Marian. The only reason I did it was because he was not a member
>>of either list, and could not respond directly himself. Believe me, I
>>would much rather stay out of the middle, and probably will from here on.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>>
>>
>>> Marion, I so agree with you on this one my good man! KH
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "FLAGDU List"
>>> <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:53 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>>>
>>>
>>> Patricia,
>>> I think that, if Charles wants to engage in this discussion, he ought
>>> to
>>> join the list! Otherwise, I believe we ought to ignore his messages as
>>> irrelevant electronic hearsay!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:46 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi guys.
>>>>
>>>> I will be happy to forward David's message on to Charles.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:19 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Marion,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes I seen where the post was forwarded from and I sent Charles a copy
>>>>> as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for checking. Have a Great Day.
>>>>>
>>>>> David Wermuth
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 3:00 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> David,
>>>>>> Did you notice that the message writer and the message sender were
>>>>>> not one and the same? I hope your message gets to the writer! At
>>>>>> least
>>>>>> it is getting to some of those who can help make a difference,
>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>> altering their perceptions. I, too, saw this message as bureaucratic
>>>>>> rhetoric! It takes considerable energy and motivation to change
>>>>>> perceptions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:26 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First of all Thanks for your opinion Charles. and thanks for your
>>>>>>> service to the blind community over your 17 year tenure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, a few opinions you have that you have expressed that I have to
>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First of all I have heard while working as a "insider" in the past
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> that I have heard many times, "I have 15 years experience, 12 yrs,
>>>>>>> 17
>>>>>>> yrs..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that means to most of the blind -low vision consumers is that
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> if not all of the employees should have been fired years ago. and
>>>>>>> while I have worked as most of the job titles: VRT, ILS, Child and
>>>>>>> Family and sat on many boards myselfFloridas Division of the Blind
>>>>>>> needs to clean house. You say you have worked in the field of BVI
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> 17 years we'll just a little hint, we bvi people don't get our sight
>>>>>>> back after five and on weekends. So I am asking who has more
>>>>>>> experience? I have 19 years of blind experience, 24 hours a day
>>>>>>> includeing holidays, weekends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm glad that you made the effort to go thru immersion for 3 weeks
>>>>>>> under blindfold. Employees of the prior Texas Commission for the
>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>> go thru immersion for thirty days as new employees. and I am also
>>>>>>> encouraged that you encouraged your new sighted employees to make a
>>>>>>> effort to work on learning or at the very least trying to understand
>>>>>>> the everyday struggles of living b-vi. That makes me feel all warm
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> fuzzy inside.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've like I said in previous post's observe and communicate with
>>>>>>> consumers of the blind community and DBS before I make my comments.
>>>>>>> and I'll say it again "DBS needs to change it's philosophy to
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> serve the BVI in Florida."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are ways to do this and number 1 is to start employing B-VI
>>>>>>> person's into DBS, unless the philosophy from DBS is that sighted
>>>>>>> people can do it better? and if that is the opinion of DBS then the
>>>>>>> whole slate of employees serving the B-VI should be cleaned or then
>>>>>>> what is the use of even giving you all pay checks at the expense of
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> tax dollars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the topic of scholarships: are you kidding me? Those student's
>>>>>>> worked their rear ends off to earn them and I know what it takes as
>>>>>>> during my educational learning from the University of Washington I
>>>>>>> earned a few myself. They are a mark of hard work and excellence
>>>>>>> giving to them for all their hard work. If they want to spend it
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> more equipment, food to have enough energy to get to school the next
>>>>>>> day, clothes... then so be it. We as tax payers do not ask state
>>>>>>> employees to return the money it cost's to feed a lunch to a agency
>>>>>>> during a training class, pay back the many Holidays, accumidated
>>>>>>> sick
>>>>>>> leave, vacation, and all the other perks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem with most state employee's is after a short time after
>>>>>>> tenure they forget where the money is coming from (tax payers) and
>>>>>>> forget who they are working for. The more money they don't spend
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> yes I know about the Federal payback ratio but they start thinking
>>>>>>> about how nice their Christmas party can be and all along pat each
>>>>>>> other on the back saying, "isn't it nice we are helping those
>>>>>>> blind-low
>>>>>>> vision people"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank You again for your long thought out opinions and it sounds
>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>> couple blanket statements other state rehabilitation offices send
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> that comes directly from the top. Hmm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Enough already,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Wermuth
>>>>>>> Brooksville, FL
>>>>>>> dwermuth1 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S Everyone have a nice day, I know I will.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:59 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Charles Randall" <randybns at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:06 PM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have worked at the O&A Center for 17 years. I can tell you that
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> did not
>>>>>>>> serve that many clients during the switch to NFB concepts. We had
>>>>>>>> clients
>>>>>>>> who did not wish to use the sleep shades. Because of the slow down
>>>>>>>> due
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> having a set period of time, six to nine months in the general
>>>>>>>> program,
>>>>>>>> clients had ato wait a long period for service. Just because one's
>>>>>>>> philosophy was being implemented doesn't mean service was better.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> use of
>>>>>>>> sleep shades can be a very useful tool and should be both an option
>>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>>> suggestion to certain clients. However, it is not always necessary.
>>>>>>>> Refusing
>>>>>>>> to offer such a tool is as unfortunate as forcing it on clients. As
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> employee at the Center, I can tell you that we tried to be sure
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> customer received quality training and recommended additional
>>>>>>>> instruction
>>>>>>>> when needed. In regards to being a revolving door, it is my opinion
>>>>>>>> that if
>>>>>>>> a client came back to the Center not for new training, it was
>>>>>>>> unfortunately
>>>>>>>> because a councelor in the field didn't know what to do with the
>>>>>>>> client and
>>>>>>>> in some cases, wasn't assisting with job development. I appreciate
>>>>>>>> learning
>>>>>>>> about different methods for teaching blindness skills and in 2004,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>>>> three weeks at the Louisianna Center for the Blind in what they
>>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> immersion. What I learned best was that what they do is what we do
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Daytona Center. Good people , concerned about and respectful of the
>>>>>>>> customers, teaching skills for travel, daily living and technology.
>>>>>>>> One of
>>>>>>>> the instructors I enjoyed getting to know, was very strong in his
>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>> philosophy, he felt it was the best way to work, but he was an
>>>>>>>> open-minded
>>>>>>>> person who was willing to dialog and show respect to people with
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding scholarships, I worked with a woman who had a number of
>>>>>>>> scholarships. DBS didn't as a result pay for her school but they
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>> her with equipment she needed to accomplish her goals. Remember,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> pot is not unending and those scholarships should be used first
>>>>>>>> allowing
>>>>>>>> funds to be used for those clients not so fortunate. In the case
>>>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>>>> where the client was asked to pay the money to the agency. I don't
>>>>>>>> know for
>>>>>>>> sure what happened but I can speculate. Unfortunately, some offices
>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>> run as well as they should be. They should not have paid the money
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>>> but rather used it for further education knowing that DBS would not
>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>> requirement to give additional funds until the scholarship was
>>>>>>>> used.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> During Craig's administration, he made some very useful
>>>>>>>> contributions.
>>>>>>>> Providing the opportunity for clients and training facilities to
>>>>>>>> access more
>>>>>>>> technology was one I felt was long overdue. However, in a speech he
>>>>>>>> made,
>>>>>>>> later published in the Braille Monitor, he made it appear that
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> rehab
>>>>>>>> in Florida was totally underserved until his changes and the things
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>> about the Daytona Center were, shall we say, inaccurate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It continues to be the responsibility of the consumer groups and
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> customers to make their voices heard and have an influence on the
>>>>>>>> Division
>>>>>>>> of Blind Services. And all due respect to one of my colleagues, and
>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>> besmirching of his integrity, in my opinion, no employee of the
>>>>>>>> agency
>>>>>>>> should serve on the Rehab Council. It is not essential that all
>>>>>>>> employees of
>>>>>>>> DBS be blind to ably provide good service, as we gain new employees
>>>>>>>> who have
>>>>>>>> no background in the blindness field, they need to be encouraged to
>>>>>>>> educate
>>>>>>>> themselves in order to understand their customers and the community
>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>> themselves in order to provide quality services, not just manage
>>>>>>>> paperwork.
>>>>>>>> Such education should involve not just course work but taking part
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> activities alongside their customers and the consumer groups.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes it is understood that I am an insider; I am also an officer in
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> local
>>>>>>>> chapter of the FCB. What is more important to me is my
>>>>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> express what I feel is a more accurate picture of how some matters
>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>> dealt with between clients and the Division. I am not a spokesman
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> agency, only one man with an opinion. I appreciate the chance these
>>>>>>>> channels
>>>>>>>> offer to interact with differing ideas. May I continue to learn
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> those I
>>>>>>>> don't always agree with. As iron sharpens iron,
>>>>>>>> so one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27-17 NIV.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Charles "Randy" Randall
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:32 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Fw: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:19 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I appreciate your thoughtful observations David and I still say
>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>as an
>>>>>>>>>organization, one of the things we can do is get NAC out of
>>>>>>>>>Florida. I
>>>>>>>>>do
>>>>>>>>>not understand the need of Florida agencies to be accredited by
>>>>>>>>>NAC. I
>>>>>>>>>then
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>think that if we know of individual cases of people whose cases are
>>>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>>>being handled well, we work on them on a chapter-by-chapter basis
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>involve others in the state affiliate if need be. I hate to see
>>>>>>>>>Florids'd
>>>>>>>>>rehab system slip back into the dark ages. Again, just my thoughts!
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:41 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Sherri,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have the personality and knowledge to sometimes kick back and
>>>>>>>>>> observe
>>>>>>>>>> before putting myself in unknowledgeable situations. The reason I
>>>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>>> these questions is to learn and figure out ways to positively
>>>>>>>>>> asisst
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the areas that might be takeing a wrong way. We all know that
>>>>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>>>>> people blind or not have issues with advocateing for themselves
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>>>>> it is frustrateing at times but that is the way it is, and
>>>>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> end up with egg on our face but... I have sat and listened to
>>>>>>>>>> consumer's of DBS and heard some story's of how VRC's don't have
>>>>>>>>>> time to
>>>>>>>>>> fill out the ppw for O and M and they just say OK and fade away
>>>>>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>>>>>> in their homes because...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It disturbs me and yes I am done observeing, so I ask all of you
>>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>> next? We all know the rehabilitation system here in Florida
>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>> working, so????
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>; "Florida
>>>>>>>>>> Association of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:31 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> David and list, I agree with most of what Marion says and was
>>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>> going to answer in a similar way, but let me add that years ago,
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> serving as president of the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>> Greater
>>>>>>>>>>> Orlando Chapter and vice-president of the NFBF, I did advocate
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> local scholarship winners in Orlando when DBS insisted that
>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>>>>>> helps them procure equipment and pay for school, the scholarship
>>>>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>>>>> should return the scholarship from NFB-GOC to DBS. I was furious
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> went all the way to the top on that one. One person did give her
>>>>>>>>>>> winnings to DBS, but it was after much advice from me not to do
>>>>>>>>>>> so.
>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> was in the pre Craig Kiser era.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe that DBS was making many progressive strides when
>>>>>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>>>>>> Kiser was director. I am acquainted with their present director
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>> frankly surprised at the turn the O&A center in Daytona has
>>>>>>>>>>> taken.
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> believe that advocacy from NFBF for those seeking help from DBS
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>>>>> more on an individual case-by-case basis rather than having some
>>>>>>>>>>> sort of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> state-wide policy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We have, however, participated in phone conferences with FAASB
>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>> input is noted, though not necessarily acted upon.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I also think we need to take into careful consideration our
>>>>>>>>>>> advocacy
>>>>>>>>>>> efforts. How much can we really advocate for the blind when
>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>> people are employed by DBS. This also spills over into
>>>>>>>>>>> transportation as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> there are those who also work for transportation companies who
>>>>>>>>>>> serve the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> disabled in Florida.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would actually like to see NFB work to drive NAC out of
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida,
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> accreditation by this organization holds no validity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why should you joiner NFB? Primarily because if you want to
>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>> something about an organization--if you want to move it
>>>>>>>>>>> forward--
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> can only do so from the inside out. Putting forth negativity
>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> outside-in only hurts that organization and minimizes your own
>>>>>>>>>>> view.
>>>>>>>>>>> Having been both more and less involved with NFB over the years,
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> found that my views are noted far more if I am working in the
>>>>>>>>>>> organization to change what it means to be blind, rather than
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> an outside observer. Whether I agree or disagree with policies,
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> my choice is to do what I can to help the blind throughout
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> this country and I can do that more effectively being part of
>>>>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>> by being out there on my own.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts and I thank you for asking these questions.
>>>>>>>>>>> Sherri
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "FLAGDU List"
>>>>>>>>>>> <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:04 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>>>>> The questions you ask are very valid ones! There was a time
>>>>>>>>>>>> when the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>>>>>> had a greater influence with the Division of Blind Services.
>>>>>>>>>>>> During
>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kiser's administration, DBS was moving in a more positive
>>>>>>>>>>>> direction.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>>>>>>> is a very progressive thinker, understanding, living, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> implementing
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> NFB's philosophy, in spite of a great deal of opposition from
>>>>>>>>>>>> those who
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> content with the status quo. The Orientation & Adjustment
>>>>>>>>>>>> center
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind in Daytona Beach began implementing NFB-style training,
>>>>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> use of sleep shades, in an effort to close the revolving door
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> rehabilitation that once and now, again, exists. His goal was
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>> excellent training once, not bits and pieces as consumers lose
>>>>>>>>>>>> more and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> eyesight, returning to the O&A Center to improve their lacking
>>>>>>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> should have been taught from the beginning. Unfortunately,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig's
>>>>>>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>>>>>>> necessitated his retirement as the Director.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We now have a Director who cannot even use the word "blind",
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> evidenced by her presentation at our last NFBF convention.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Though
>>>>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>>>> words
>>>>>>>>>>>> seemed to indicate that she is turning to the NFB for direction
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> support,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe these words are only political rhetoric. The status
>>>>>>>>>>>> quo
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>> returned to the O&A Center, taking two giant steps backward,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida Association of Agencies Serving the Blind (FAASB) has
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> influence and control over our lives as it
>>>>>>>>>>>> pertains to DBS than do we, the blind consumer! Florida has the
>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunate distinction of having more NAC accreditted
>>>>>>>>>>>> institutions
>>>>>>>>>>>> than any other state
>>>>>>>>>>>> and FAASB proports itself - and is accepted - to be the
>>>>>>>>>>>> authoritative
>>>>>>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>>>>> on issues of blindness. This is no surprise, as the Director of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Division of Blind Services is a former Director of a NAC
>>>>>>>>>>>> accreditted
>>>>>>>>>>>> institution - Lighthouse of Central Florida!
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the NFBF's involvement in consumer advocacy, I am of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion that this is one of our major roles! I also feel that
>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>> are too close
>>>>>>>>>>>> to agency people to be effective consumer advocates. When
>>>>>>>>>>>> crossing
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> lines from colleagues to friends, we diminish our capacity to
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> effective consumer advocates and succumb to the pressures of
>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>> doing the
>>>>>>>>>>>> pressuring! Our purpose is not to
>>>>>>>>>>>> be popular with the agencies, but to advance consumer rights of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> individual with the goal of helping consumers reach for and
>>>>>>>>>>>> achieve
>>>>>>>>>>>> their highest potential!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:00 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> First a little background on me. I've worked for the state of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Texas
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington in the Rehabilitation for the blind and moved to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>>>>>> May. I am not asking these question's to cause waves or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> insult
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I don't know the answers or how much the NFB has influence
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> here and I am just trying to understand. I have noticed that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many people on this list just read the post's and for some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> participate in the conversation's and I totally understand but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple question's and comments:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Does the NFB of Florida meet with the DBS for (Division of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services) in making decisions for the low vision-blind for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their future goals?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words do you as leaders of the blind community stand
>>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights for equal opportunity. I've sat at many meeting's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> negotiateing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (throwing my fist down a few times on occasion" for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> right's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rehab act and the right of "choice"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Does the NFB of Florida demand that all VRC's (Vocational
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rehabilitation Counselers have the professionalism to asisst
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumers in obtaining their goals?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I sat there at the leadership convention and heard at least
>>>>>>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>>>>>> times to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> paraphase" when we getting a commission for the blind" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> heard
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> comment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And I only ask not to be insultive or arogant in any way I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> promise you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for those whom are wondering where to turn when DBS trys and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of the time intimidates them can they turn to the NFB of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been to a lot of NFB and ACB meetings through out the USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>>>> concerned that the majority of them have just been a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bull
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>> frankly butt-kissing their members to have numbers in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chapters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What makes you different and why should I join the NFB of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember many people are reading this for leadership.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Wermuth
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A to Z Adaptive Aids
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40veriz
>>>>>>>> on.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Flagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/flmom2006%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Flagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/dwermuth1%40earthlink.ne
>>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Flagdu:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/flmom2006%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Flagdu:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/plipovsky%40cfl.rr.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Flagdu:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/dwermuth1%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Flagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>>>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Nfbf-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/dwermuth1%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Nfbf-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/plipovsky%40cfl.rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Nfbf-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfbf-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/kvharmon54%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfbf-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/plipovsky%40cfl.rr.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfbf-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/dwermuth1%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbf-l mailing list
> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbf-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/plipovsky%40cfl.rr.com
More information about the NFBF-L
mailing list