[Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
davidw
dwermuth1 at earthlink.net
Mon Nov 30 11:19:14 UTC 2009
Marion,
Yes I seen where the post was forwarded from and I sent Charles a copy as
well.
Thanks for checking. Have a Great Day.
David Wermuth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
> David,
> Did you notice that the message writer and the message sender were not
> one and the same? I hope your message gets to the writer! At least it is
> getting to some of those who can help make a difference, perhaps altering
> their perceptions. I, too, saw this message as bureaucratic rhetoric! It
> takes considerable energy and motivation to change perceptions.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>
>
>> First of all Thanks for your opinion Charles. and thanks for your
>> service to the blind community over your 17 year tenure.
>>
>> OK, a few opinions you have that you have expressed that I have to
>> respectfully disagree with.
>>
>> First of all I have heard while working as a "insider" in the past is
>> that I have heard many times, "I have 15 years experience, 12 yrs, 17
>> yrs..."
>>
>> All that means to most of the blind -low vision consumers is that most if
>> not all of the employees should have been fired years ago. and while I
>> have worked as most of the job titles: VRT, ILS, Child and Family and sat
>> on many boards myselfFloridas Division of the Blind needs to clean house.
>> You say you have worked in the field of BVI for 17 years we'll just a
>> little hint, we bvi people don't get our sight back after five and on
>> weekends. So I am asking who has more experience? I have 19 years of
>> blind experience, 24 hours a day includeing holidays, weekends.
>>
>> I'm glad that you made the effort to go thru immersion for 3 weeks under
>> blindfold. Employees of the prior Texas Commission for the Blind go thru
>> immersion for thirty days as new employees. and I am also encouraged
>> that you encouraged your new sighted employees to make a effort to work
>> on learning or at the very least trying to understand the everyday
>> struggles of living b-vi. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
>>
>> I've like I said in previous post's observe and communicate with
>> consumers of the blind community and DBS before I make my comments. and
>> I'll say it again "DBS needs to change it's philosophy to better serve
>> the BVI in Florida."
>>
>> There are ways to do this and number 1 is to start employing B-VI
>> person's into DBS, unless the philosophy from DBS is that sighted people
>> can do it better? and if that is the opinion of DBS then the whole slate
>> of employees serving the B-VI should be cleaned or then what is the use
>> of even giving you all pay checks at the expense of our tax dollars.
>>
>> On the topic of scholarships: are you kidding me? Those student's worked
>> their rear ends off to earn them and I know what it takes as during my
>> educational learning from the University of Washington I earned a few
>> myself. They are a mark of hard work and excellence giving to them for
>> all their hard work. If they want to spend it on more equipment, food
>> to have enough energy to get to school the next day, clothes... then so
>> be it. We as tax payers do not ask state employees to return the money it
>> cost's to feed a lunch to a agency during a training class, pay back the
>> many Holidays, accumidated sick leave, vacation, and all the other perks.
>>
>> The problem with most state employee's is after a short time after tenure
>> they forget where the money is coming from (tax payers) and forget who
>> they are working for. The more money they don't spend and yes I know
>> about the Federal payback ratio but they start thinking about how nice
>> their Christmas party can be and all along pat each other on the back
>> saying, "isn't it nice we are helping those blind-low vision people"
>>
>> Thank You again for your long thought out opinions and it sounds like a
>> couple blanket statements other state rehabilitation offices send out
>> that comes directly from the top. Hmm
>>
>> Enough already,
>>
>> David Wermuth
>> Brooksville, FL
>> dwermuth1 at earthlink.net
>>
>> P.S Everyone have a nice day, I know I will.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:59 PM
>> Subject: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: "Charles Randall" <randybns at earthlink.net>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:06 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> I have worked at the O&A Center for 17 years. I can tell you that we did
>>> not
>>> serve that many clients during the switch to NFB concepts. We had
>>> clients
>>> who did not wish to use the sleep shades. Because of the slow down due
>>> to
>>> having a set period of time, six to nine months in the general program,
>>> clients had ato wait a long period for service. Just because one's
>>> philosophy was being implemented doesn't mean service was better. The
>>> use of
>>> sleep shades can be a very useful tool and should be both an option and
>>> a
>>> suggestion to certain clients. However, it is not always necessary.
>>> Refusing
>>> to offer such a tool is as unfortunate as forcing it on clients. As an
>>> employee at the Center, I can tell you that we tried to be sure that the
>>> customer received quality training and recommended additional
>>> instruction
>>> when needed. In regards to being a revolving door, it is my opinion that
>>> if
>>> a client came back to the Center not for new training, it was
>>> unfortunately
>>> because a councelor in the field didn't know what to do with the client
>>> and
>>> in some cases, wasn't assisting with job development. I appreciate
>>> learning
>>> about different methods for teaching blindness skills and in 2004, I
>>> spent
>>> three weeks at the Louisianna Center for the Blind in what they call an
>>> immersion. What I learned best was that what they do is what we do at
>>> the
>>> Daytona Center. Good people , concerned about and respectful of the
>>> customers, teaching skills for travel, daily living and technology. One
>>> of
>>> the instructors I enjoyed getting to know, was very strong in his NFB
>>> philosophy, he felt it was the best way to work, but he was an
>>> open-minded
>>> person who was willing to dialog and show respect to people with other
>>> ideas.
>>>
>>> Regarding scholarships, I worked with a woman who had a number of
>>> scholarships. DBS didn't as a result pay for her school but they did
>>> provide
>>> her with equipment she needed to accomplish her goals. Remember, that
>>> the
>>> pot is not unending and those scholarships should be used first allowing
>>> funds to be used for those clients not so fortunate. In the case
>>> mentioned
>>> where the client was asked to pay the money to the agency. I don't know
>>> for
>>> sure what happened but I can speculate. Unfortunately, some offices
>>> aren't
>>> run as well as they should be. They should not have paid the money to
>>> DBS
>>> but rather used it for further education knowing that DBS would not have
>>> a
>>> requirement to give additional funds until the scholarship was used.
>>>
>>> During Craig's administration, he made some very useful contributions.
>>> Providing the opportunity for clients and training facilities to access
>>> more
>>> technology was one I felt was long overdue. However, in a speech he
>>> made,
>>> later published in the Braille Monitor, he made it appear that blind
>>> rehab
>>> in Florida was totally underserved until his changes and the things he
>>> said
>>> about the Daytona Center were, shall we say, inaccurate.
>>>
>>> It continues to be the responsibility of the consumer groups and the
>>> customers to make their voices heard and have an influence on the
>>> Division
>>> of Blind Services. And all due respect to one of my colleagues, and no
>>> besmirching of his integrity, in my opinion, no employee of the agency
>>> should serve on the Rehab Council. It is not essential that all
>>> employees of
>>> DBS be blind to ably provide good service, as we gain new employees who
>>> have
>>> no background in the blindness field, they need to be encouraged to
>>> educate
>>> themselves in order to understand their customers and the community
>>> around
>>> themselves in order to provide quality services, not just manage
>>> paperwork.
>>> Such education should involve not just course work but taking part in
>>> activities alongside their customers and the consumer groups.
>>>
>>> Yes it is understood that I am an insider; I am also an officer in my
>>> local
>>> chapter of the FCB. What is more important to me is my responsibility to
>>> express what I feel is a more accurate picture of how some matters have
>>> been
>>> dealt with between clients and the Division. I am not a spokesman for
>>> the
>>> agency, only one man with an opinion. I appreciate the chance these
>>> channels
>>> offer to interact with differing ideas. May I continue to learn from
>>> those I
>>> don't always agree with. As iron sharpens iron,
>>> so one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27-17 NIV.
>>>
>>> Charles "Randy" Randall
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:32 PM
>>> Subject: Fw: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I appreciate your thoughtful observations David and I still say that as
>>>>an
>>>>organization, one of the things we can do is get NAC out of Florida. I
>>>>do
>>>>not understand the need of Florida agencies to be accredited by NAC. I
>>>>then
>>>
>>>>think that if we know of individual cases of people whose cases are not
>>>>being handled well, we work on them on a chapter-by-chapter basis and
>>>>involve others in the state affiliate if need be. I hate to see
>>>>Florids'd
>>>>rehab system slip back into the dark ages. Again, just my thoughts!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:41 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Sherri,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the personality and knowledge to sometimes kick back and
>>>>> observe
>>>>> before putting myself in unknowledgeable situations. The reason I ask
>>>>> these questions is to learn and figure out ways to positively asisst
>>>>> in
>>>>> the areas that might be takeing a wrong way. We all know that
>>>>> sometimes
>>>>> people blind or not have issues with advocateing for themselves and
>>>>> Yes
>>>>> it is frustrateing at times but that is the way it is, and sometimes
>>>>> we
>>>>> end up with egg on our face but... I have sat and listened to
>>>>> consumer's of DBS and heard some story's of how VRC's don't have time
>>>>> to
>>>>> fill out the ppw for O and M and they just say OK and fade away
>>>>> sitting
>>>>> in their homes because...
>>>>>
>>>>> It disturbs me and yes I am done observeing, so I ask all of you what
>>>>> is
>>>>> next? We all know the rehabilitation system here in Florida isn't
>>>>> working, so????
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>; "Florida Association
>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>> Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:31 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> David and list, I agree with most of what Marion says and was
>>>>>> actually
>>>>>> going to answer in a similar way, but let me add that years ago, when
>>>>>> serving as president of the National Federation of the Blind Greater
>>>>>> Orlando Chapter and vice-president of the NFBF, I did advocate with
>>>>>> local scholarship winners in Orlando when DBS insisted that because
>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>> helps them procure equipment and pay for school, the scholarship
>>>>>> winner
>>>>>> should return the scholarship from NFB-GOC to DBS. I was furious and
>>>>>> went all the way to the top on that one. One person did give her
>>>>>> winnings to DBS, but it was after much advice from me not to do so.
>>>>>> This
>>>
>>>>>> was in the pre Craig Kiser era.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do believe that DBS was making many progressive strides when Craig
>>>>>> Kiser was director. I am acquainted with their present director and
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> frankly surprised at the turn the O&A center in Daytona has taken. I
>>>>>> believe that advocacy from NFBF for those seeking help from DBS is
>>>>>> done
>>>>>> more on an individual case-by-case basis rather than having some sort
>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>> state-wide policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have, however, participated in phone conferences with FAASB so our
>>>>>> input is noted, though not necessarily acted upon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think we need to take into careful consideration our advocacy
>>>>>> efforts. How much can we really advocate for the blind when several
>>>>>> people are employed by DBS. This also spills over into transportation
>>>>>> as
>>>
>>>>>> there are those who also work for transportation companies who serve
>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>> disabled in Florida.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would actually like to see NFB work to drive NAC out of Florida, as
>>>>>> accreditation by this organization holds no validity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why should you joiner NFB? Primarily because if you want to change
>>>>>> something about an organization--if you want to move it forward-- you
>>>>>> can only do so from the inside out. Putting forth negativity from the
>>>>>> outside-in only hurts that organization and minimizes your own view.
>>>>>> Having been both more and less involved with NFB over the years, I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> found that my views are noted far more if I am working in the
>>>>>> organization to change what it means to be blind, rather than just
>>>>>> being
>>>
>>>>>> an outside observer. Whether I agree or disagree with policies, I
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> my choice is to do what I can to help the blind throughout Florida
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> this country and I can do that more effectively being part of NFB
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> by being out there on my own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my thoughts and I thank you for asking these questions.
>>>>>> Sherri
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "FLAGDU List"
>>>>>> <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:04 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>> The questions you ask are very valid ones! There was a time when
>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>> had a greater influence with the Division of Blind Services. During
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> Kiser's administration, DBS was moving in a more positive direction.
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> is a very progressive thinker, understanding, living, and
>>>>>>> implementing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> NFB's philosophy, in spite of a great deal of opposition from those
>>>>>>> who
>>>
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> content with the status quo. The Orientation & Adjustment center for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> blind in Daytona Beach began implementing NFB-style training,
>>>>>>> including
>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> use of sleep shades, in an effort to close the revolving door of
>>>>>>> rehabilitation that once and now, again, exists. His goal was to
>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>> excellent training once, not bits and pieces as consumers lose more
>>>>>>> and
>>>
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> eyesight, returning to the O&A Center to improve their lacking
>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> should have been taught from the beginning. Unfortunately, Craig's
>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>> necessitated his retirement as the Director.
>>>>>>> We now have a Director who cannot even use the word "blind", as
>>>>>>> evidenced by her presentation at our last NFBF convention. Though
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> words
>>>>>>> seemed to indicate that she is turning to the NFB for direction and
>>>>>>> support,
>>>>>>> I believe these words are only political rhetoric. The status quo
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> returned to the O&A Center, taking two giant steps backward, and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Florida Association of Agencies Serving the Blind (FAASB) has more
>>>>>>> influence and control over our lives as it
>>>>>>> pertains to DBS than do we, the blind consumer! Florida has the
>>>>>>> unfortunate distinction of having more NAC accreditted institutions
>>>>>>> than any other state
>>>>>>> and FAASB proports itself - and is accepted - to be the
>>>>>>> authoritative
>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>> on issues of blindness. This is no surprise, as the Director of the
>>>>>>> Division of Blind Services is a former Director of a NAC accreditted
>>>>>>> institution - Lighthouse of Central Florida!
>>>>>>> As for the NFBF's involvement in consumer advocacy, I am of the
>>>>>>> opinion that this is one of our major roles! I also feel that too
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> are too close
>>>>>>> to agency people to be effective consumer advocates. When crossing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> lines from colleagues to friends, we diminish our capacity to be
>>>>>>> effective consumer advocates and succumb to the pressures of those
>>>>>>> doing the
>>>>>>> pressuring! Our purpose is not to
>>>>>>> be popular with the agencies, but to advance consumer rights of the
>>>>>>> individual with the goal of helping consumers reach for and achieve
>>>>>>> their highest potential!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:00 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First a little background on me. I've worked for the state of
>>>>>>>> Texas
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Washington in the Rehabilitation for the blind and moved to Florida
>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>> May. I am not asking these question's to cause waves or insult in
>>>>>>>> anyway
>>>>>>>> as I don't know the answers or how much the NFB has influence with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>>> here and I am just trying to understand. I have noticed that
>>>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>>>> many people on this list just read the post's and for some reason
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> participate in the conversation's and I totally understand but here
>>>>>>>> are a
>>>>>>>> couple question's and comments:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Does the NFB of Florida meet with the DBS for (Division of
>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>> Services) in making decisions for the low vision-blind for
>>>>>>>> employment
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> for their future goals?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In other words do you as leaders of the blind community stand up
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> rights for equal opportunity. I've sat at many meeting's
>>>>>>>> negotiateing
>>>
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> (throwing my fist down a few times on occasion" for the right's of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> rehab act and the right of "choice"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. Does the NFB of Florida demand that all VRC's (Vocational
>>>>>>>> Rehabilitation Counselers have the professionalism to asisst their
>>>>>>>> consumers in obtaining their goals?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I sat there at the leadership convention and heard at least three
>>>>>>>> times to
>>>>>>>> paraphase" when we getting a commission for the blind" and heard no
>>>>>>>> comment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And I only ask not to be insultive or arogant in any way I promise
>>>>>>>> you
>>>
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> for those whom are wondering where to turn when DBS trys and as you
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> most of the time intimidates them can they turn to the NFB of
>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been to a lot of NFB and ACB meetings through out the USA and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>> concerned that the majority of them have just been a lot of bull
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>> frankly butt-kissing their members to have numbers in their
>>>>>>>> chapters.
>>>>>>>> What makes you different and why should I join the NFB of Florida?
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> remember many people are reading this for leadership.
>>>>>>>> Dave Wermuth
>>>>>>>> A to Z Adaptive Aids
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40veriz
>>> on.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Flagdu:
>>>>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/flmom2006%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Flagdu:
>>>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/dwermuth1%40earthlink.ne
>>> t
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Flagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/flmom2006%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Flagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/plipovsky%40cfl.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Flagdu mailing list
>>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Flagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/dwermuth1%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Flagdu mailing list
>> Flagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/flagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Flagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/flagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbf-l mailing list
> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbf-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/dwermuth1%40earthlink.net
More information about the NFBF-L
mailing list