[Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.

[Patricia A. Lipovsky]

I agree Marian.  The only reason I did it was because he was not a member of 
either list, and could not respond directly himself.  Believe me, I would 
much rather stay out of the middle, and probably will from here on.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.


> Marion, I so agree with you on this one my good man! KH
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "FLAGDU List"
> <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>
>
> Patricia,
>    I think that, if Charles wants to engage in this discussion, he ought 
> to
> join the list! Otherwise, I believe we ought to ignore his messages as
> irrelevant electronic hearsay!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>
>
>> Hi guys.
>>
>> I will be happy to forward David's message on to Charles.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>>
>>
>>> Marion,
>>>
>>> Yes I seen where the post was forwarded from and I sent Charles a copy 
>>> as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> Thanks for checking. Have a Great Day.
>>>
>>> David Wermuth
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 3:00 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>>>
>>>
>>>> David,
>>>>    Did you notice that the message writer and the message sender were
>>>> not one and the same? I hope your message gets to the writer! At least
>>>> it is getting to some of those who can help make a difference, perhaps
>>>> altering their perceptions. I, too, saw this message as bureaucratic
>>>> rhetoric! It takes considerable energy and motivation to change
>>>> perceptions.
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> First of all Thanks for your opinion Charles.  and thanks for your
>>>>> service to the blind community over your 17 year tenure.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, a few opinions you have that you have expressed that I have to
>>>>> respectfully disagree with.
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all I have heard while working as a "insider" in the past is
>>>>> that I have heard many times, "I have 15 years experience, 12 yrs, 17
>>>>> yrs..."
>>>>>
>>>>> All that means to most of the blind -low vision consumers is that most
>>>>> if not all of the employees should have been fired years ago.  and
>>>>> while I have worked as most of the job titles: VRT, ILS, Child and
>>>>> Family and sat on many boards myselfFloridas Division of the Blind
>>>>> needs to clean house. You say you have worked in the field of BVI for
>>>>> 17 years we'll just a little hint, we bvi people don't get our sight
>>>>> back after five and on weekends.  So I am asking who has more
>>>>> experience?  I have 19 years of blind experience, 24 hours a day
>>>>> includeing holidays, weekends.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad that you made the effort to go thru immersion for 3 weeks
>>>>> under blindfold.  Employees of the prior Texas Commission for the 
>>>>> Blind
>>>>> go thru immersion for thirty days as new employees.  and I am also
>>>>> encouraged that you encouraged your new sighted employees to make a
>>>>> effort to work on learning or at the very least trying to understand
>>>>> the everyday struggles of living b-vi.  That makes me feel all warm 
>>>>> and
>>>>> fuzzy inside.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've like I said in previous post's observe and communicate with
>>>>> consumers of the blind community and DBS before I make my comments.
>>>>> and I'll say it again  "DBS needs to change it's philosophy to better
>>>>> serve the BVI in Florida."
>>>>>
>>>>> There are ways to do this and number 1 is to start employing B-VI
>>>>> person's into DBS, unless the philosophy from DBS is that sighted
>>>>> people can do it better?  and if that is the opinion of DBS then the
>>>>> whole slate of employees serving the B-VI should be cleaned or then
>>>>> what is the use of even giving you all pay checks at the expense of 
>>>>> our
>>>>> tax dollars.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the topic of scholarships: are you kidding me?  Those student's
>>>>> worked their rear ends off to earn them and I know what it takes as
>>>>> during my educational learning from the University of Washington I
>>>>> earned a few myself.    They are a mark of hard work and excellence
>>>>> giving to them for all their hard work.   If they want to spend it on
>>>>> more equipment, food to have enough energy to get to school the next
>>>>> day, clothes...  then so be it. We as tax payers do not ask state
>>>>> employees to return the money it cost's to feed a lunch to a agency
>>>>> during a training class, pay back the many Holidays, accumidated sick
>>>>> leave, vacation, and all the other perks.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem with most state employee's is after a short time after
>>>>> tenure they forget where the money is coming from  (tax payers)  and
>>>>> forget who they are working for.  The more money they don't spend and
>>>>> yes I know about the Federal payback ratio but they start thinking
>>>>> about how nice their Christmas party can be and all along pat each
>>>>> other on the back saying, "isn't it nice we are helping those 
>>>>> blind-low
>>>>> vision people"
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank You again for your long thought out opinions and it sounds like 
>>>>> a
>>>>> couple blanket statements other state rehabilitation offices send out
>>>>> that comes directly from the top.  Hmm
>>>>>
>>>>> Enough already,
>>>>>
>>>>> David Wermuth
>>>>> Brooksville, FL
>>>>> dwermuth1 at earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S  Everyone have a nice day, I know I will.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:59 PM
>>>>> Subject: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Charles Randall" <randybns at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:06 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have worked at the O&A Center for 17 years. I can tell you that we
>>>>>> did not
>>>>>> serve that many clients during the switch to NFB concepts. We had
>>>>>> clients
>>>>>> who did not wish to use the sleep shades. Because of the slow down 
>>>>>> due
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> having a set period of time, six to nine months in the general
>>>>>> program,
>>>>>> clients had ato wait a long period for service. Just because one's
>>>>>> philosophy was being implemented doesn't mean service was better. The
>>>>>> use of
>>>>>> sleep shades can be a very useful tool and should be both an option
>>>>>> and a
>>>>>> suggestion to certain clients. However, it is not always necessary.
>>>>>> Refusing
>>>>>> to offer such a tool is as unfortunate as forcing it on clients. As 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> employee at the Center, I can tell you that we tried to be sure that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> customer received quality training and recommended additional
>>>>>> instruction
>>>>>> when needed. In regards to being a revolving door, it is my opinion
>>>>>> that if
>>>>>> a client came back to the Center not for new training, it was
>>>>>> unfortunately
>>>>>> because a councelor in the field didn't know what to do with the
>>>>>> client and
>>>>>> in some cases, wasn't assisting with job development. I appreciate
>>>>>> learning
>>>>>> about different methods for teaching blindness skills and in 2004, I
>>>>>> spent
>>>>>> three weeks at the Louisianna Center for the Blind in what they call
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> immersion. What I learned best was that what they do is what we do at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Daytona Center. Good people , concerned about and respectful of the
>>>>>> customers, teaching skills for travel, daily living and technology.
>>>>>> One of
>>>>>> the instructors I enjoyed getting to know, was very strong in his NFB
>>>>>> philosophy, he felt it was the best way to work, but he was an
>>>>>> open-minded
>>>>>> person who was willing to dialog and show respect to people with 
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> ideas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding scholarships, I worked with a woman who had a number of
>>>>>> scholarships. DBS didn't as a result pay for her school but they did
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> her with equipment she needed to accomplish her goals. Remember, that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> pot is not unending and those scholarships should be used first
>>>>>> allowing
>>>>>> funds to be used for those clients not so fortunate. In the case
>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>> where the client was asked to pay the money to the agency. I don't
>>>>>> know for
>>>>>> sure what happened but I can speculate. Unfortunately, some offices
>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>> run as well as they should be. They should not have paid the money to
>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>> but rather used it for further education knowing that DBS would not
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> requirement to give additional funds until the scholarship was used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> During Craig's administration, he made some very useful 
>>>>>> contributions.
>>>>>> Providing the opportunity for clients and training facilities to
>>>>>> access more
>>>>>> technology was one I felt was long overdue. However, in a speech he
>>>>>> made,
>>>>>> later published in the Braille Monitor, he made it appear that blind
>>>>>> rehab
>>>>>> in Florida was totally underserved until his changes and the things 
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> about the Daytona Center were, shall we say, inaccurate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It continues to be the responsibility of the consumer groups and the
>>>>>> customers to make their voices heard and have an influence on the
>>>>>> Division
>>>>>> of Blind Services. And all due respect to one of my colleagues, and 
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> besmirching  of his integrity, in my opinion, no employee of the
>>>>>> agency
>>>>>> should serve on the Rehab Council. It is not essential that all
>>>>>> employees of
>>>>>> DBS be blind to ably provide good service, as we gain new employees
>>>>>> who have
>>>>>> no background in the blindness field, they need to be encouraged to
>>>>>> educate
>>>>>> themselves in order to understand their customers and the community
>>>>>> around
>>>>>> themselves in order to provide quality services, not just manage
>>>>>> paperwork.
>>>>>> Such education should involve not just course work but taking part in
>>>>>> activities alongside their customers and the consumer groups.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes it is understood that I am an insider; I am also an officer in my
>>>>>> local
>>>>>> chapter of the FCB. What is more important to me is my responsibility
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> express what I feel is a more accurate picture of how some matters
>>>>>> have been
>>>>>> dealt with between clients and the Division. I am not a spokesman for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> agency, only one man with an opinion. I appreciate the chance these
>>>>>> channels
>>>>>> offer to interact with differing ideas. May I continue to learn from
>>>>>> those I
>>>>>> don't always agree with. As iron sharpens iron,
>>>>>> so one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27-17 NIV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles "Randy" Randall
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:32 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Fw: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:19 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I appreciate your thoughtful observations David and I still say that
>>>>>>>as an
>>>>>>>organization, one of the things we can do is get NAC out of Florida. 
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>do
>>>>>>>not understand the need of Florida agencies to be accredited by NAC. 
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>then
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>think that if we know of individual cases of people whose cases are
>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>being handled well, we work on them on a chapter-by-chapter basis and
>>>>>>>involve others in the state affiliate if need be. I hate to see
>>>>>>>Florids'd
>>>>>>>rehab system slip back into the dark ages. Again, just my thoughts!
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:41 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Sherri,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have the personality and knowledge to sometimes kick back and
>>>>>>>> observe
>>>>>>>> before putting myself in unknowledgeable situations. The reason I
>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>> these questions is to learn and figure out ways to positively 
>>>>>>>> asisst
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the areas that might be takeing a wrong way. We all know that
>>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>>> people blind or not have issues with advocateing for themselves and
>>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>>> it is frustrateing at times but that is the way it is, and 
>>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> end up with egg on our face but...   I have sat and listened to
>>>>>>>> consumer's of DBS and heard some story's of how VRC's don't have
>>>>>>>> time to
>>>>>>>> fill out the ppw for O and M and they just say OK and fade away
>>>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>>>> in their homes because...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It disturbs me and yes I am done observeing, so I ask all of you
>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>> next?  We all know the rehabilitation system here in Florida isn't
>>>>>>>> working, so????
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>; "Florida
>>>>>>>> Association of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:31 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David and list, I agree with most of what Marion says and was
>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>> going to answer in a similar way, but let me add that years ago,
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> serving as president of the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>>> Greater
>>>>>>>>> Orlando Chapter and vice-president of the NFBF, I did advocate 
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> local scholarship winners in Orlando when DBS insisted that 
>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>>>> helps them procure equipment and pay for school, the scholarship
>>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>>> should return the scholarship from NFB-GOC to DBS. I was furious
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> went all the way to the top on that one. One person did give her
>>>>>>>>> winnings to DBS, but it was after much advice from me not to do 
>>>>>>>>> so.
>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> was in the pre Craig Kiser era.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do believe that DBS was making many progressive strides when
>>>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>>>> Kiser was director. I am acquainted with their present director 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>> frankly surprised at the turn the O&A center in Daytona has taken.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> believe that advocacy from NFBF for those seeking help from DBS is
>>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>>> more on an individual case-by-case basis rather than having some
>>>>>>>>> sort of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> state-wide policy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have, however, participated in phone conferences with FAASB so
>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>> input is noted, though not necessarily acted upon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also think we need to take into careful consideration our
>>>>>>>>> advocacy
>>>>>>>>> efforts. How much can we really advocate for the blind when 
>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>> people are employed by DBS. This also spills over into
>>>>>>>>> transportation as
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> there are those who also work for transportation companies who
>>>>>>>>> serve the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> disabled in Florida.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would actually like to see NFB work to drive NAC out of Florida,
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> accreditation by this organization holds no validity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why should you joiner NFB? Primarily because if you want to change
>>>>>>>>> something about an organization--if you want to move it forward--
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> can only do so from the inside out. Putting forth negativity from
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> outside-in only hurts that organization and minimizes your own
>>>>>>>>> view.
>>>>>>>>> Having been both more and less involved with NFB over the years, I
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> found that my views are noted far more if I am working in the
>>>>>>>>> organization to change what it means to be blind, rather than just
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> an outside observer. Whether I agree or disagree with policies, I
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> my choice is to do what I can to help the blind throughout Florida
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> this country and I can do that more effectively being part of NFB
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>> by being out there on my own.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts and I thank you for asking these questions.
>>>>>>>>> Sherri
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "FLAGDU List"
>>>>>>>>> <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:04 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>>>    The questions you ask are very valid ones! There was a time
>>>>>>>>>> when the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>>>> had a greater influence with the Division of Blind Services.
>>>>>>>>>> During
>>>>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>>>>> Kiser's administration, DBS was moving in a more positive
>>>>>>>>>> direction.
>>>>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>>>>> is a very progressive thinker, understanding, living, and
>>>>>>>>>> implementing
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> NFB's philosophy, in spite of a great deal of opposition from
>>>>>>>>>> those who
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> content with the status quo. The Orientation & Adjustment center
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> blind in Daytona Beach began implementing NFB-style training,
>>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> use of sleep shades, in an effort to close the revolving door of
>>>>>>>>>> rehabilitation that once and now, again, exists. His goal was to
>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>> excellent training once, not bits and pieces as consumers lose
>>>>>>>>>> more and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> eyesight, returning to the O&A Center to improve their lacking
>>>>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> should have been taught from the beginning. Unfortunately, 
>>>>>>>>>> Craig's
>>>>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>>>>> necessitated his retirement as the Director.
>>>>>>>>>>    We now have a Director who cannot even use the word "blind", 
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> evidenced by her presentation at our last NFBF convention. Though
>>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>> words
>>>>>>>>>> seemed to indicate that she is turning to the NFB for direction
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> support,
>>>>>>>>>> I believe these words are only political rhetoric. The status quo
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>> returned to the O&A Center, taking two giant steps backward,  and
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Florida Association of Agencies Serving the Blind (FAASB) has 
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> influence and control over our lives as it
>>>>>>>>>> pertains to DBS than do we, the blind consumer! Florida has the
>>>>>>>>>> unfortunate distinction of having more NAC accreditted
>>>>>>>>>> institutions
>>>>>>>>>> than any other state
>>>>>>>>>> and FAASB proports itself - and is accepted - to be the
>>>>>>>>>> authoritative
>>>>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>>> on issues of blindness. This is no surprise, as the Director of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Division of Blind Services is a former Director of a NAC
>>>>>>>>>> accreditted
>>>>>>>>>> institution - Lighthouse of Central Florida!
>>>>>>>>>>    As for the NFBF's involvement in consumer advocacy, I am of 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> opinion that this is one of our major roles! I also feel that too
>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>> are too close
>>>>>>>>>> to agency people to be effective consumer advocates. When 
>>>>>>>>>> crossing
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> lines from colleagues to friends, we diminish our capacity to be
>>>>>>>>>> effective consumer advocates and succumb to the pressures of 
>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>> doing the
>>>>>>>>>> pressuring! Our purpose is not to
>>>>>>>>>> be popular with the agencies, but to advance consumer rights of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> individual with the goal of helping consumers reach for and
>>>>>>>>>> achieve
>>>>>>>>>> their highest potential!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:00 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> First a little background on me.  I've worked for the state of
>>>>>>>>>>> Texas
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Washington in the Rehabilitation for the blind and moved to
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>>>> May.  I am not asking these question's to cause waves or insult
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> anyway
>>>>>>>>>>> as I don't know the answers or how much the NFB has influence
>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>>>>>> here and I am just trying to understand.  I have noticed that
>>>>>>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>>>>>>> many people on this list just read the post's and for some 
>>>>>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> participate in the conversation's and I totally understand but
>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>> are a
>>>>>>>>>>> couple question's and comments:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1.  Does the NFB of Florida meet with the DBS for (Division of
>>>>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>>>>> Services) in making decisions for the low vision-blind for
>>>>>>>>>>> employment
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> for their future goals?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In other words do you as leaders  of the blind community stand 
>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> rights for equal opportunity.  I've sat at many meeting's
>>>>>>>>>>> negotiateing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> (throwing my fist down a few times on occasion" for the right's
>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>> rehab act and the right of "choice"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2.  Does the NFB of Florida demand that all VRC's (Vocational
>>>>>>>>>>> Rehabilitation Counselers have the professionalism to asisst
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> consumers in obtaining their goals?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I sat there at the leadership convention and heard at least 
>>>>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>>>> times to
>>>>>>>>>>> paraphase" when we getting a commission for the blind" and heard
>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>> comment.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And I only ask not to be insultive or arogant in any way I
>>>>>>>>>>> promise you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> for those whom are wondering where to turn when DBS trys and as
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>> most of the time intimidates them can they turn to the NFB of
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been to a lot of NFB and ACB meetings through out the USA
>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>> concerned that the majority of them have just been a lot of bull
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>>>>> frankly butt-kissing their members to have numbers in their
>>>>>>>>>>> chapters.
>>>>>>>>>>> What makes you different and why should I join the NFB of
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida?
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> remember many people are reading this for leadership.
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Wermuth
>>>>>>>>>>> A to Z Adaptive Aids
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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>>>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40veriz
>>>>>> on.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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