[Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted foryour Approval --ProposedConstitutional Amendment.

David Clarke dbclarke99 at gmail.com
Sun May 20 21:21:24 UTC 2012 

Hi Kirk,

It is not unusual in most organizations for someone defeated for a higher
office to then run for a lower office (which is why the highest office is
elected first.) This wouldn't be possible under your method.  You are
absolutely correct that most government organizations don't allow this.
 But our government DOES allow write-in ballots.  A person's name does not
have to be on a ballot for you to vote for them -- therefore, our
government does allow floor nominations in a way.  I forget the last time a
person ran

The bigger problem would be if there were several people running for one
office.  What would happen if no one gained a majority?  It would have to
be changed to a plurality instead of a majority.

Coming up with new ideas for discussion is never a bad thing, though.

Dave Clarke

On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Kirk <kvharmon54 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I so agree, however when I sent this out originally I honestly forgot about
> this very important fact! However, we could do like our very own government
> does and that is to claim your candidacy for any open positions early
> enough
> prior to the convention and election so that all that might wish to run
> will
> be on the ballot along with all the others.We would then have no need for
> floor nominations and we could simply just drop the floor nominations
> completely! OUCH! Already everybody, calm down, it was just some conceptual
> fodder for our thought process, nothing more! LOL! KH
>
>
> Kirk Harmon
> DA V national blind chapter
> Life member
>
> BVA/FRG
> Life member
>
> NFB & FCB
> member
> " A smile can change a persons life, try it sometime!"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Hicks" <danjhicks at yahoo.com>
> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 3:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted foryour
> Approval --ProposedConstitutional Amendment.
>
>
> Very good point. And I don't think National would approve any changes which
> did not include nominations fr the floor.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 20, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Cathy Koyanagi <cakoyanagi at samobile.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Kirk,
> > This sounds like a good idea, except it would cause a conflict with the
> > part of the consistution that says nominations must be allowed from the
> > floor.
> > Cathy-Alice
> > Original message:
> >> Dan, Let  me throw this at all to ponder! What if we had a set time
> frame
> >> in
> >> which all Florida chapters held an election locally for their state
> >> candidates prior to the convention and elected a delegate to attend the
> >> general assembly representing those votes in their prospective
> >> chapters(perhaps the  delegate could be one of their chapter board
> >> members?(. This would give our less financially able, or members with
> ill
> >> health  the ability to feel like they are still able to contribute to a
> >> part
> >> of our state decisions as well as bring less people, more votes to the
> >> floor! I do not believe this will reduce our attendance any, as most
> that
> >> wish to go will continue. It will just simplify our voting and the time
> >> involved as well as allow all of us when we cannot attend the good
> >> feeling
> >> of at least being able to contribute our vote and still be heard, albeit
> >> it
> >> silently if prefered. It would be Democracy at it's best! The individual
> >> chapters could even  vote  by secret ballot if necessary, and their
> >> chapter
> >> board could tally them and submit a ssealed count for the state
> >> conventions
> >> general assembly to validate! Just an idea from one  ,member. Kirk
> >
> >
> >
> >> Kirk Harmon
> >> DA V national blind chapter
> >> Life member
> >
> >> BVA/FRG
> >> Life member
> >
> >> NFB & FCB
> >> member
> >> " A smile can change a persons life, try it sometime!"
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Cathy Koyanagi" <cakoyanagi at samobile.net>
> >> To: <kdavisnfbf at cfl.rr.com>
> >> Cc: <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 11:23 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted for your
> >> Approval --ProposedConstitutional Amendment.
> >
> >
> >> Easy fix is to have each person put their ballot into an envelope and
> >> seal it, then they can be picked up by designated election officials.
> >> Cathy-Alice
> >
> >> Original message:
> >>> Holly,
> >>>        Do you mean that you observed people tearing off an additional
> >>> corner or tearing off a corner when there was no corners torn off? I
> >>> really
> >>> do not see any way around that. I want each person to put their ballot
> >>> in
> >>> the container for counting so there can be no alterations.
> >
> >>> Kathy
> >
> >
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of Holly
> >>> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:26 PM
> >>> To: NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted for your Approval
> >>> --ProposedConstitutional Amendment.
> >
> >>> Kathy,
> >>> I tend to agree with you. I would also like a different way to collect
> >>> the
> >>> secret ballot, as well. I have seen people change the ballots as they
> >>> were
> >>> past down the isle. At that point, I did not feel that I could do
> >>> anything
> >>> about it.
> >>> Holly
> >
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >>> On May 19, 2012, at 7:18 PM, "Kathy Davis" <kdavisnfbf at cfl.rr.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >
> >>>> Hi Dan,
> >>>>   I totally oppose your proposed amendment to the NFBF Constitution.
> >>>> You and I have always held differing opinions on the matter of secret
> >>>> ballots.
> >>>>   The fact is that I do not want to stand up publically or even raise
> >>>> my hand so members will know exactly how I vote. I may respect several
> >>>> members running for office but I do not want them to be cognizant of
> >>>> how I choose to vote.  Hurt feelings that can be long-lasting in
> >>>> nature would likely result.
> >>>>   Even though the majority of the voting members are blind, many have
> >>>> enough vision to see how folks cast their votes and of course, we have
> >>>> many sighted members who will also be part of the election process.
> >>>> Don't think for a minute that a given candidate will not learn from
> >>>> other
> >>> members what
> >>>> they observed pertaining to how others cast their votes
> >>>>   To take my position a bit further and a little more concrete, let
> >>>> me add an example. It's a really terrible situation when two of my
> >>>> really good friends are running for the same office such as Second
> >>>> Vice President. This situation has occurred on numerous occasions
> >>>> throughout the years I have been part of the NFBF. For example, let's
> >>>> say that Sherrill O'Brien is running against Gloria Hicks. I may
> >>>> choose to vote for Gloria but I would feel horrible for Sherrill to
> >>>> know that I voted against her because I value both candidates'
> >>>> friendship. After all, we are an organization that has worked for
> >>>> years and years for voters to have the right to vote in secret and in
> >>> private.
> >>>>   Sorry my friend, but I can never support your amendment! Moreover,
> >>>> elections are far too important to get caught up in making our
> >>>> elections be over and done with in the quickest manner possible. If
> >>>> only one voting member is uncomfortable about voting publically, that
> >>>> member should have the right to call for a secret ballot. I hope
> >>>> others will jump in and share their views on this matter.
> >
> >
> >>>> Your friend and longtime colleague,
> >
> >>>> Kathy Davis
> >
> >
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>>> Behalf Of Dan Hicks
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 1:47 PM
> >>>> To: 'NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List'
> >>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted for your Approval --
> >>>> ProposedConstitutional Amendment.
> >
> >>>> Fellow NFBF Members,
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> As Rod Serling used to say in the beginning minutes of "The Twilight
> >>> Zone,"
> >>>> 'Submitted for your approval."
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Some of you may recall that at our 2011 NFBF Convention, we approved
> >>>> an amendment to the constitution which changed and simplified the way
> >>>> chapters designate their representatives.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> During this convention, I mentioned another amendment that I wish to
> >>>> see passed, and will be voted on at this year's convention.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> ARTICLE IV:  ELECTIONS
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Now reads:
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> ARTICLE IV:  ELECTIONS
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Elections shall be conducted by a majority vote of the active members
> >>>> present and voting at an annually held business meeting.  Election
> >>>> shall be by voice vote, standing vote, show of hands, roll call vote,
> >>>> or secret ballot.  Secret marked ballots shall be required upon the
> >>>> request of any active member present and voting.  There shall be no
> >>>> proxy voting.  If no nominee receives a majority vote on the first
> >>>> ballot, the name of the person receiving the fewest votes shall be
> >>>> dropped from the list of nominees, and a second ballot shall be taken.
> >>>> This procedure shall continue until one of the nominees has received a
> >>>> majority vote from the active members present and voting.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Proposed Change:
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> ARTICLE IV:  ELECTIONS
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Elections shall be conducted by a majority vote of the active members
> >>>> present and voting at an annually held business meeting.  Election
> >>>> shall be by voice vote, standing vote, show of hands, roll call vote,
> >>>> or secret ballot.  Secret marked ballots shall be required upon the
> >>>> request of a majority of the active member present and voting.  There
> >>>> shall be no proxy voting.  If no nominee receives a majority vote on
> >>>> the first ballot, the name of the person receiving the fewest votes
> >>>> shall be dropped from the list of nominees, and a second ballot shall
> >>>> be taken.  This procedure shall continue until one of the nominees has
> >>>> received a majority vote from the active members present and voting.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> I am putting this out now so that we can talk about it and debate its
> >>>> merits via NFBF-L before the start of convention.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Let me just say that we spend something like 45 minutes each
> >>>> convention passing out, collecting, and counting secret ballots at our
> >>> conventions.
> >>>> This year, the number of offices up for vote could make this time grow
> >>>> to an hour or more. We usually have about 120 people voting the final
> >>>> day of convention. That's 120 collective hours - the equivalent of
> >>>> five twenty-four hour days - of valuable convention time that we waste
> >>>> on a procedure which a majority of us may not want.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Please note that my proposed amendment does not eliminate secret
> >>>> balloting; it just changes our constitution to call for a secret
> >>>> ballot only if the majority of the members present and voting wish to
> >>>> have
> >>> it.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Please take a look at this and give it your consideration. Feel free
> >>>> to share your thoughts.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Dan Hicks, President
> >
> >>>> NFB of Florida
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> "It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars."
> >
> >
> >>>>                                                    -Garrison Keillor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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