[nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
joe harcz Comcast
joeharcz at comcast.net
Mon Sep 26 15:14:01 UTC 2011
Hacks always hate the truth...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
> Truth is always best Joe! Even though sometimes its sort of hard to
> swallow!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>
>
>> Oh my here you denote your own innate hypocritical nature. for on the one
>> hand you openly attack me for my documentation and then condemn me for
>> the same thing. which's it Fred?
>>
>> Man I'm just not into this "Brave New World" of "double-speak".
>>
>> But, again on the one hand you seem to condemn me for documentation of
>> the public trust by the likes of Cannon, et al, and on the other hand you
>> appear to condemn me in the very same message for same.
>>
>> What is it?
>>
>> Peace with Justice,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "fred olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>
>>
>>> You can call it what you want, Joe, but if you haven't the guts to back
>>> up what you say by putting it in a public forum where it could be acted
>>> upon then the facts speak for themselves.
>>>
>>> Fred Olver
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 8:48 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>
>>>
>>>> This is blaming the victims of perfidy for the very perfidy documented
>>>> over and over again Msir.
>>>>
>>>> This isn't any longer a matter of simple opinion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But you now strike out at the likes of me for "whistle blowing" and
>>>> then blame me for the fact that corrupted powers are still in power?
>>>>
>>>> How does this make even one iota of sense, even common sense?
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "fred olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:12 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Joe, I will not comment on Faith Meadows, however if your overall
>>>>> dispute is with the leadership of MCB, that being Pat Cannon and you
>>>>> believe and can substantiate his improprieties as director of MCB then
>>>>> you as a citizen have an obligation to seek his removal as director.
>>>>> If you do not then the responsibility for his remaining in office
>>>>> falls on your head for ignoring the illegalities which he as director
>>>>> has perpetrated on the citizens of Michigan who are blind. Your words
>>>>> are like arrows, to me. You can, at will seem to use them for good or
>>>>> you can choose to use them for evil, at best, though, at this point
>>>>> I'm beginning to think they are just words and I haven't seen anything
>>>>> to point up the fact that you think Pat Cannon is a bad director. I
>>>>> hear lots of words and some small actions to get the MCB to provide
>>>>> you with specific materials, but I don't see you causing or ensighting
>>>>> change in policy. Again, I would state, if you think Mr. Cannon is not
>>>>> good for the commission than find the ammunition to remove him from
>>>>> office. This talk about people wetting on the heads of others etc.
>>>>> becomes very old after a while. In other words, Joe, and I regret to
>>>>> feel a need to say this, put your money where your mouth is. Get him
>>>>> out, or take the necessary steps to rid the commission of him and do
>>>>> it well, so no one has any cause for regret. If his work, ethics,
>>>>> decisions are so bad, and you can prove that he has violated the law
>>>>> and the edicts put forth with regard to rehabilitation of blind folks
>>>>> by Congress then show us, and everyone else where he has gone wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Use your words for the good of one and all, not to create devisiveness
>>>>> and anger. Nothing you say on this list is going to make a difference
>>>>> to Pat Cannon or anyone else who works for MCB, however if you put
>>>>> your words to use in a public forum and create a series of debating
>>>>> points and an avenue for change then you have done your best. I dare
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:35 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Fred,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I substantially agree I'm compelled to point out that Faith
>>>>>> acted publicly and in her public capacity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She did after all pen official board correspondence. If these were
>>>>>> simple words between a debating society or even amongst friendly
>>>>>> comrades over an adult beverage or two it wouldn't amount to much
>>>>>> and, I'd agree with you. But, that isn't the case here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This said, I've got no other axe to grind with Faith per se. And in
>>>>>> fact have ironically stood for her in the past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The real issue as you and I and all know is that Pat Cannon fueled
>>>>>> this dog fight for his own Machiavellian purposes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is the core to his "patronage" game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is all about jobs after all. And those jobs aren't based upon
>>>>>> merit, but rather, allegiance and fealty to a petty dictator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The evil of it all is that our times in general are as desperate to a
>>>>>> degree as they've ever been for we in America are indeed in a Great
>>>>>> Recession. times are tough for anyone out there especially in
>>>>>> Michigan and times certainly are tougher for people with any
>>>>>> disability let alone those who are blind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Except for the fact that many have the rightful social safety net of
>>>>>> social security the bulk of us would be living on some localized
>>>>>> public assistance or begging literally in the streets of America.
>>>>>> Those are indeed factual statements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is why the words of this professional, paid for at again the
>>>>>> public teet is so hypocritical; so ironic; and indeed, so dangerous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact that Faith is blind, and I think generally competent makes
>>>>>> this all the more insidious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an extreme moral issue in my mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not unlike the fact that many Jews in Nazi Germany sold out
>>>>>> their brethren to save their own skins during those troubled times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand why those folks did what they did. But we must call
>>>>>> gross immorality even under duress what it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, of course as in that moral illustration we must go to the root
>>>>>> cause of it all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm pretty well convinced that under better leadership, for example
>>>>>> that Faith might well be a positive force for good and positive
>>>>>> change. I won't dispute that for a moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, that supports my fundamental premise pointing out the elephant
>>>>>> in the room. For until Dictator Cannon is gone then nothing will
>>>>>> change positively for the blind of Michigan. And, btw things are
>>>>>> going to be tough enough with the way things are in the over all
>>>>>> economy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In these troubled times the activities of publicofficials or those
>>>>>> acting in public capacity that are corrupted give fodder to those who
>>>>>> wish to eliminate programs altogether.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That, Fred is why the actions of Faith are so perfidious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, while I'm sensitive again to a degree I'm not going to weep
>>>>>> and moan for someone making $60,000 plus while the bulk of the blind
>>>>>> are unemployed. I certainly won't weep for such an individual when
>>>>>> she denigrates en masse those very people she is charged and paid for
>>>>>> to serve. She publicly urinated upon the heads of all blind people
>>>>>> regardless as to race, color, creed, or affiliation. That is
>>>>>> intolerable. It is indeed class treason in her own chosen and, again
>>>>>> public words.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is because the times are so desperate and that moral issues are
>>>>>> so profound in desperate times that this issue is so important..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, yes, Faith made a public policy issue very personal to all of us
>>>>>> in word, fact, and deed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Fred wurtzel" <f.wurtzel at comcast.net>
>>>>>> To: "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 10:18 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am a little reluctant to get into this thread. joe,, though I
>>>>>>> disagree
>>>>>>> with Faith regarding her comments, I feel it is just what our
>>>>>>> enemies want,
>>>>>>> that is, to fight with each other and sew emnity among us when we
>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>> focus on the real issues of lack of direction and leadership from
>>>>>>> top MCB
>>>>>>> management. It appears that Faith is falling into this same trap.
>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>> clients are called back, have their cases opened in a timely manner,
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> show up in Kalamazoo at the Center without having ever met a MCB
>>>>>>> client,
>>>>>>> blind people are not fired and bullied and intimidated for their
>>>>>>> desire to
>>>>>>> make things better and we have 250-300 placements on a regular
>>>>>>> basis, then
>>>>>>> we will know that things are improving at MCB. No matter what
>>>>>>> anyone says
>>>>>>> about our motives, these are facts and cannot be denied. It cannot
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> denied who is the top manager and who is in a position to change
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>> dismal facts. We need not beat up on one another or compare who is
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> trampled on when, in fact, when 1 blind person is trampled on, all
>>>>>>> of us are
>>>>>>> trampled on, even those who feel privileged and somehow above the
>>>>>>> fray.
>>>>>>> Faith has a record to stand on and we all do to. None of us need
>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>> superior or better because some of us have been blessed with
>>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>>>> while others have been held back. Except for the Grace of God,
>>>>>>> there go I.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> warmest Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fred
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of joe harcz Comcast
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 7:37 PM
>>>>>>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meadows isn't living poor. Her salary and credentials are a part of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> public record as again is her nominal code of ethics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Listen one and all I've been easy on Faith as I've been on many
>>>>>>> others. But
>>>>>>> this is corructed bullshit in a word.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This garbage is again beyond her code of ethics ethicllly speaking
>>>>>>> and her
>>>>>>> own given premise in the field.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, yes when people make sixty thousand per year plus at the public
>>>>>>> teet
>>>>>>> then they must be held accountable to their own proprofessionaland
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> standards for sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used to feel a bit sorry for the likes of Faith Meadows. I don't
>>>>>>> at all
>>>>>>> nowadays for she is a traitor and a direct hypocrite as to her words
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> actions as if she would ever have a job in the private sector?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I ddidn't wish for this to devolve into a blind upon blind campaign,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> dangnit it has and I didn't shoot the first shot across the bow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This professional, so-called counselior who makes more than sixty
>>>>>>> thousand
>>>>>>> per year at the public teet has the unmitigated temerity to slander
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> entire clas for its so-called lack of responsability whilst she and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> entire agency in documented fashion has sucked not only at our very
>>>>>>> blood,
>>>>>>> but also violated the very laws that give this crank her paycheck?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Listen, one and all she slanderrred and attacked me personally in
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> innuendo and conjecture while again she suck up federal/state
>>>>>>> taxpayer
>>>>>>> dollars. Now, I'll remin all I'm not a hypocrite. I am decidedly
>>>>>>> left of
>>>>>>> center. Yet for all of my own career, with the exception of three
>>>>>>> years in
>>>>>>> the mid-seventies wilst working for the Genesesse count ISD as a
>>>>>>> para-aide
>>>>>>> at below union wages until I founded a union in fact I've always
>>>>>>> worked for
>>>>>>> the private sector.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How ironic is that eh?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will no longer work for sellouts, incompetents and discriminatory
>>>>>>> actors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just won't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:24 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christy, What I'm mostly responding to is that this person whom I
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> well, can attack us and think we are just complaining to do so. I
>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>> involved with the NFB because I'm job hunting and am not getting
>>>>>>>> anywhere!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This isn't the first time that MS. Meadows has let loose like this.
>>>>>>>> She
>>>>>>>> certainly has a right to her oppinion but sence she works in the
>>>>>>>> rehab
>>>>>>>> field she should be supporting us in our efforts. Beeing a person
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> would LOVE!!! to have a job and is doing everything possible to
>>>>>>>> obtain
>>>>>>>> that goal. Well, I guess I am getting tired of being stereotyped as
>>>>>>>> someone who would rather live of the government than contribute to
>>>>>>>> it!
>>>>>>>> MS. Meadows also claims or was a member of our organization as
>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>> Finally, she has become one of those folks who are doing alright
>>>>>>>> and at
>>>>>>>> least seem to have most of what we want. This is a good thin
>>>>>>>> unless you
>>>>>>>> do what she has done and judge those of us who are trying and
>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>> nowhere! I, like Mr. Harcz, do believe that They are doing the
>>>>>>>> best they
>>>>>>>> can down in Kalamazoo but some folks are not doing the jobs they
>>>>>>>> have well
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and in fact are not giving deserving blind folks as good a service
>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can. Most of the counsellors are well intentioned. But training
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> counsellors and clients does need to improve! I'm very happy that
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> don't really need the services but some folks do and that's what we
>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>> to improve!
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: <christywitte at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can definitely see why some people are frustrated and even
>>>>>>>>> angry.
>>>>>>>>> However, last time I checked, our job is not to judge others our
>>>>>>>>> spout
>>>>>>>>> off. If people could use that energy they feel to accomplish a
>>>>>>>>> goal, like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> getting a job it would be great. I'm not responding specifically
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> anyone on the list. I know that sometimes there are misconceptions
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> the commission and what it does and what it does not do. Try to
>>>>>>>>> turn your
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tragedies to triumphs. Also, blindness is just one adjective to
>>>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>>>> us; beyond that, we come from all walks of life and so we have
>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>> experiences and abilities. Sometimes, we have to take things in
>>>>>>>>> our own
>>>>>>>>> hands. If we do not believe in our own abilities, how do we expect
>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to believe in our abilities. We all must forge ahead to achieve
>>>>>>>>> success;
>>>>>>>>> means something to everybody. Some of us are very young or very
>>>>>>>>> old, may
>>>>>>>>> have other disabilities, difficult lives, varying levels of
>>>>>>>>> skills. We
>>>>>>>>> are all given a different lot in life but we need to work within
>>>>>>>>> our own
>>>>>>>>> parameters to get things done. The commission can be lacking, this
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> true, but blaming an organization, which is composed of many
>>>>>>>>> people,
>>>>>>>>> doesn't get us a paycheck or whatever we feel we want and need
>>>>>>>>> individually and as a group. We must forge together and stand
>>>>>>>>> together to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> win our battles. By the way, I've never gotten assistance from
>>>>>>>>> anybody. I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> think about what I would do in their shoes; I also consider how
>>>>>>>>> much I
>>>>>>>>> would want to help or assist someone who has attacked me. I am not
>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to offend others nor am I condoning people who don't get the job
>>>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>>>> I've also observed that many people in my generation may not fully
>>>>>>>>> comprehend their own role in finding employment or understand what
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> job is going to involve. You have ask yourself: do I have the
>>>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>>>> necessary for this job and if I want this job, or one similar to
>>>>>>>>> it, how
>>>>>>>>> am I going to personally acquire the skills that are lacking. Many
>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>> people in my age group are unemployed, and many of those aren't
>>>>>>>>> hitting
>>>>>>>>> the pavement every day looking for enjoyable employment. I'm not
>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>> about the reasons. They may feel overwhelmed by the process; they
>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>> feel like they are not equipped with the tools necessary to
>>>>>>>>> perform this
>>>>>>>>> job. It is kind of like climbing a mountain. You have to locate
>>>>>>>>> and climb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to the higher level.
>>>>>>>>> Sorry about the length.
>>>>>>>>> Christy
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List"
>>>>>>>>> <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:09 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, I'm concerned about her and others who think our commission
>>>>>>>>>> board
>>>>>>>>>> is to aggressive! Does this mean it didn't do much before? I
>>>>>>>>>> thaught
>>>>>>>>>> our board was supposed to actually do something! Just being the
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>> man in the street, and correct me if I'm wrong at least 2 of the
>>>>>>>>>> commissioners had very good jobs. I don't really know Lydia but
>>>>>>>>>> if she
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't have one she would deffinetly have experience enough for
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> board. Both of the commissioners who quit had good jobs but
>>>>>>>>>> decided to
>>>>>>>>>> quit anyway because they were out numbered and in my humble
>>>>>>>>>> oppinion
>>>>>>>>>> didn't really have enough interest in making things better for
>>>>>>>>>> the blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> population as a whole. It seems to me that when some blind folks
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> lucky and get good jobs they forget that most of us are still
>>>>>>>>>> struggling
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for the security and respect they think they have earned! I am
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> slamming everyone that has gotten jobs iether but people like
>>>>>>>>>> Faith and
>>>>>>>>>> Donna Rose must feel secure in ther jobs so they find us
>>>>>>>>>> especially the
>>>>>>>>>> NFB tiresome because we still have to scratch and claw for every
>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>>> rite we gett! If joblessness and respect were not issues then we
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have to be aggressive about themm! But we should always
>>>>>>>>>> insist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> on fair play! At least the current board wants to do things
>>>>>>>>>> right and
>>>>>>>>>> abov board!
>>>>>>>>>> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/christywitte%40sbcgl
>>>>>>> obal.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
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>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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