[nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

Sun Aug 25 23:09:31 UTC 2013

They can still have them though if you request them say in your 
neighborhood, etc., especiallly if they already have a visual pedestrian 
signal.

The tricky thing, of course is in locating them for they don't have locator 
tones, for obvious reasons. But, once you are oriented to them they seem to 
work fine.

Peace,

Joe
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marcus Simmons" <president at map-n.org>
To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

> When I was at Leader Dogs many years ago, they had a cross-walk signal 
> that would vibrate when it was safe to cross the street. I don't know if 
> that system was adopted elseware.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 8:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>
>
>> Hi Chris, Doug, and All,
>>
>>
>> While all of these perspectives have validity and while I personally 
>> oppose the "chirping" ped signals and, by the way they are not compliant 
>> with Americans with Disabilities Act Guidelines, I take a strong stance 
>> in favor of consumer controlled ped signals that are accessible from a 
>> civil rights standpoint. In short they now are the law of the land 
>> whenever a conventional ped signal is used, and we the blind have the 
>> same right to visually deliverred information to use or ignore as the 
>> sighted world has.
>>
>> It is the same issue now law (since the 2010 Title III regulations) that 
>> requires all ATMs at all banks to be accessible to us.
>>
>> The ADA does not require that peds or ATMs, for that matter are provided, 
>> but when they are they must be accessible to all. It is as simple as 
>> that.
>>
>> This does not, however mean that appropriate travel training should not 
>> take place, or that blind people, or sighted folks for that matter, don't 
>> really solely on a pedestrian signal to know when it is safe to cross any 
>> street.
>>
>> For we all know those crazy sighted drivers out there don't always follow 
>> the rules of the road. And we know pedestrians are somehow second class 
>> citizens. But, that is another issue for another day.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Christine Boone" <christineboone2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>>
>>
>>> This message is from Doug Boone with some additions from me:
>>>
>>> For starters we must ask ourselves: How do you define a complex 
>>> intersection? Doug and I have both worked with folks who have received 
>>> blindness skill training that they believe is excellent-- most people 
>>> really love their travel teacher, because no matter how far he or she 
>>> has taken them toward independent travel, they enjoy more freedom after 
>>> training than they did before:
>>>
>>> Some of these good folks have come to us requesting assistance with 
>>> intersections that they define as extremely complex-- and we have 
>>> discovered that in many cases the intersections are actually simple to 
>>> moderate crossings.
>>>
>>> That said however, both of us have encountered some truly odd 
>>> intersections that would benefit from accessible pedestrian signals. 
>>> This is often the case when there is an excessive amount of ambient 
>>> noise in the surrounding environment, or when the intersection has 3 or 
>>> more streets converging- especially when 1 or more of the streets have 
>>> only intermittent traffic. When traffic is heavy and consistent, even 
>>> really complex, multi-street intersections can be successfully navegated 
>>> without accessible pedestrian signals.
>>>
>>> But no matter how we define a complex intersection, and no matter how 
>>> well an individual has trained in blindness travel skills, the 
>>> accessible pedestrian signal gives only one part of the equation: when 
>>> the light changes from green to red, and whether the walk sign is 
>>> lighted.  The signal does not give any indication of what traffic is 
>>> doing, and whether or not drivers are obeying the law. Indeed audible 
>>> pedestrian signals can create a sense of complacency that lowers the 
>>> blind persons attention level so that they are less aware of traffic 
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> One positive thing that has happened in recent years is that the noise 
>>> produced by the signals themselves has been considerably reduced. The 
>>> older louder signals actually created a hazard because they were noisy 
>>> enough to mask the sound of traffic almost entirely.
>>>
>>> So those are our thoughts. It will be good for J.J. to meet with the 
>>> MDOT people and to discuss these things...but the ultimate fix is a 
>>> quality rehabilitation agency that offers consistent, superior training 
>>> to its customers and can consult effectively with MDOT on when and where 
>>> accessible signals should be installed.  An agency that is run and 
>>> managed by individuals who are not acquainted with the practices and/or 
>>> the profession of vocational rehabilitation will not have the ability to 
>>> provide anything in the way of meaningful partnership or consultation on 
>>> matters concerning individuals who are blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Boone Christine Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "J.J. Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Through talking to some people on Twitter, I've got a meeting set up 
>>>> with some MDOT people about accessible pedestrian signals. Their policy 
>>>> is that they'll install one if blind pedestrians regularly use that 
>>>> intersection.
>>>> I'm going to talk about the need for audible signals at complex 
>>>> intersections where traffic patterns aren't easily discernable but was 
>>>> curious as to your opinions on the matter. I know NFB has shifted 
>>>> opinion over time on the issue.
>>>> Just to clarify, I'm not claiming to represent NFB of Michigan for this 
>>>> meeting,.
>>>> Thanks much.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> J.J.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/christineboone2%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/joeharcz%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nfbmi-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/president%40map-n.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbmi-talk mailing list
> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nfbmi-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/joeharcz%40comcast.net 