[Ag-eq] Taming wild yeasties

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Sat Dec 15 18:25:02 UTC 2018 

Aaron, Susan says her sourdough-making person keeps the starter lid tight,
to keep in heat.  My book says to keep the lid loose.  What do you do?
Tracy


-----Original Message-----
From: Ag-eq [mailto:ag-eq-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon via
Ag-eq
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 12:10 PM
To: Agricultural and Equestrean Division List
Cc: Aaron Cannon
Subject: Re: [Ag-eq] Taming wild yeasties

I've heard of folks decreasing the amount and still having things go fine. I
suspect that the overall quantity doesn't matter nearly as much as the
feeding schedule and the ratios. Anyway, if you decide to try that, just use
a smaller container.

Keep us posted.

Aaron

--
This message was sent from a mobile device


> On Dec 15, 2018, at 11:04, Tracy Carcione via Ag-eq <ag-eq at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> 
> Thanks Aaron.
> The house drops down to around 65 at night, so I suspect that's what's
> slowing down the process.
> Your method sounds much more flour-intensive than mine.  I'll have to
think
> about that.
> Good to know I don't have to be so careful about weighing out just the
right
> amount of flour.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ag-eq [mailto:ag-eq-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon
via
> Ag-eq
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:24 AM
> To: Agricultural and Equestrean Division List
> Cc: Aaron Cannon
> Subject: Re: [Ag-eq] Taming wild yeasties
> 
> There are about as many ways to start a starter as there are to make
bread,
> so I suspect that that method would probably work eventually. However, I
> will say, based on all of my reading, that that is rather unusual.
> Generally, the formula I like to use for starting starters is a simple 1:1
> ratio. So on the first day, I'd mix 50 grams of flour with 50 grams of
> water. Then I'd let that sit for 48 hours.
> 
> On day 3, and all subsequent days, I'd toss out roughly half the starter,
> then add 50 grams of flour, and 50 grams of water.
> 
> I'd do the same on day 4, and day 5, and so on. You should have something
> you can bake with between day 14 and day 21.
> 
> Since you've already got something going, I'd probably keep around 50 to
100
> grams of starter, and feed with water and flour, 50 grams of each, and
then
> do the same the next day, and so on.
> 
> When making measurements when making starter, precision is not nearly as
> important as it is when making bread. Rough estimates are likely fine. 
> 
> Summer or winter shouldn't really matter much, as long as you have a
> kitchen, or another room where you can keep the starter, that stays around
> 70 degrees. a little warmer than that is probably fine, but if you get too
> much cooler than that, it will probably just take a bit longer.
> 
> The concern I have with the method you are using is that you are trying to
> establish a balance, and I worry that throwing out so much of the starter
> each time is going to make that balance very difficult to reach.
> 
> The hardest part of creating a starter I think is sticking with it. There
> will be days when it will smell terrible, like a bad batch of sauerkraut.
> There will be days where it seems like nothing at all is happening, and
you
> are just wasting your time, energy, and flour. But eventually, if you
> persist, you will eventually find yourself with something that smells
> amazing, and does a great job with levening your loaves.
> 
> Good luck. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with, or if
you
> would like some additional resources to read. It's a fascinating and
> delicious topic. :)
> 
> Aaron
> 
> --
> This message was sent from a mobile device
> 
> 
>> On Dec 15, 2018, at 09:04, Tracy Carcione via Ag-eq <ag-eq at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Aaron.  How long did it take for your starter to get going?  Did
> you
>> start it in winter or summer?
>> My book does say that the flour should have enough yeast to get started,
>> with patience.
>> The method I'm using is to combine 100 grams of water and 50 grams of
> flour,
>> stir them up good, and put the mix in a clean jar or bowl, cover it
> loosely,
>> and leave it on the counter for as long as it takes to smell/taste right.
>> Then mix it up, take a tablespoonful, and add it to another 100 grams of
>> water and 50 grams of flour.  Repeat until it actually leavens, and still
>> tastes and smells good.
>> Mine does taste and smell good, kind of like wine or beer with no hops.
>> It's zingy, and not bitter.  But so far it doesn't leaven.
>> I'm happy to keep trying, though.  It's only about half a cup of flour at
> a
>> time, so it's not a big investment.
>> If you think it makes a difference, and mine doesn't take off in the next
>> couple weeks, I'll hold off until the weather gets warmer.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ag-eq [mailto:ag-eq-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon
> via
>> Ag-eq
>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 7:03 PM
>> To: Agricultural and Equestrean Division List
>> Cc: Aaron Cannon
>> Subject: Re: [Ag-eq] Taming wild yeasties
>> 
>> My wife and I have been making sourdough for years, and we love it!
>> Unfortunately, the reality is that there is a lot of bad advice that's
> been
>> passed down through the years that just isn't true. One of the biggest
>> misconceptions is that you can help jumpstart your starter by adding
yeast
>> from other sources, such as grapes, leaves or other things. I've even
> heard
>> of an old guy who swore that he kept his starter very healthy by spitting
> in
>> it every so often. :) The truth is that there are hundreds of thousands
of
>> types of yeast, and you are only interested in a very few kinds. Namely,
> you
>> want the ones that are adapted to living on wheat. You're also looking
for
>> lactobacilli, which is a type of bacteria that consumes the dead yeast,
> and
>> produces lactic acid. These acids are what give your bread the sour
> flavor,
>> and that also act as a type of antibiotic, to keep your culture from
being
>> invaded by less desirable microorganisms, such as mold and such. Anyway,
> the
>> best place to find this 
>> type of bacteria and yeast is on the plants they are adapted for, I.E.
>> wheat/flour.
>> 
>> They did a study a while back, where they heated the flour to kill off
all
>> the yeast on it. They wanted to see if the yeast in sourdough starter
were
>> caught from the air, or already found on the grain. The result was that
> they
>> were unable to get a starter started from the staralized flour, but
> feeding
>> that already staralized flour to an existing starter showed no ill
> effects.
>> 
>> I'd be happy to mail you some of our starter. It can sometimes be easier
> to
>> start out with an established starter, and then try creating your own,
> once
>> you know what healthy starter smells/feels like.
>> 
>> Can you tell me more about the process you used to create your own
> starter?
>> Perhaps I can offer some tips.
>> 
>> Once you get a starter going, unless you plan to make bread with it
often,
>> you should probably keep it in the fridge. Keeping it on the counter
>> requires at least daily feedings, whereas with starter kept in the
fridge,
>> you are fine with once every week or two.
>> 
>> Good luck. Sourdough is amazing!
>> 
>> Aaron
>> 
>> --
>> This message was sent from a mobile device
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2018, at 14:06, dogwood farm via Ag-eq <ag-eq at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Tracy,
>>> 
>>> I don't know much about wild yeast except when it comes to fruit wines
>>> and some beers that are brewed in Germany.  However, reference yeast
>>> starters for breads, you need to put your starter in a warm place and
>>> covered.  Matt puts his starter in a container with an airtight lid.
>>> This traps the heat from the yeast as it firments and that also helps
>>> keep it warm.  His starters, which have different names depending on
>>> the process and what kind of bread he is making.
>>> 
>>> Susan
>>> dogwoodfarm62 at gmail.com
>>> 
>>>> On 12/14/18, Tracy Carcione via Ag-eq <ag-eq at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> I'm having some fun, running experiments in microbiology, aka creating
> my
>>>> own sourdough starter, trying to convince wild yeasts to come play with
>> me.
>>>> 
>>>> I have a guidebook, The Sullivan Street Bakery cookbook.  It describes
>> well
>>>> how the starter should smell and taste when it's ready to use.  I
> thought
>>>> mine could be ready to go, but it didn't actually leaven, so I added
> some
>>>> store-bought yeast and made bread anyway.  Even so, it added a nice
> taste
>>>> to
>>>> the bread.
>>>> 
>>>> The book says that, when the yeasts have done their thing, there will
be
>> a
>>>> foamy residue of flour on the side of the jar.  I thought I could feel
>>>> that,
>>>> but maybe I'm mistaken.
>>>> 
>>>> The book also says that I could catch more yeast by getting some off
>> leaves
>>>> in the garden, like kale or cabbage leaves.  It says the yeast is a
>>>> powdery,
>>>> water-resistant layer on the underside of a leaf, but I'm not sure how
> to
>>>> tell that from dirt or whatever.  Not to mention that most of my leaves
>>>> have
>>>> now frozen.  I'm sure the cold isn't helping my experiments, even
> inside.
>>>> 
>>>> However, it's a small investment in time and flour, so I'll keep
> carrying
>>>> on.  According to the book, I can create a starter that is to my taste,
>> and
>>>> not as sour and sharp as the stuff sold commercially.
>>>> 
>>>> Tracy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
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