[Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6

[Patricia C. Estes]

Linda-this was a fun spin you put on my experience...and when you mentioned 
"weight", I heard Mom's words,"OK, you have shown me the shape...but objects 
take up space and have weight! I don't see that it-anchor it!"
Patty
PS A few weeks ago I was told that my dentist sold his practice. I've been 
seeing  him for twenty years and my reaction was relief!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
<artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6


> Patty, this was so funny! There you are, a captive audience for a one 
> person art show - right there in your dentist's office!  This could be a 
> comic skit on SNL. But, I do understand what you are saying, seriously. 
> If the artist would just spend some time getting to know those objects in 
> a personal way, it would make a difference. She could just sit and hold 
> them, feel their weight, explore the surfaces and how they move in space, 
> and things like this.  The way you describe them makes it seem to me as 
> though they don't have a sense of "touch" to them and as a viewer you 
> cannot get that feeling from the paintings, so something is amiss.  The 
> scary part is that this is really how she sees them herself.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 7:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 
> 6
>
>
>> Linda, what you just expressed about understanding the object, whatever, 
>> one is painting totally explains something to me. We have a local artist 
>> who has many, many still life paintings and the subjects are interesting 
>> and the colors dramatic and she is truly hailed around these parts. But I 
>> have such trouble with her work-after the color, the subject and the 
>> presentation. (and here it is, my personal perspective presented as 
>> fact!) In my opinion, all of her objects seem to be floating-no sense of 
>> dimension. Which goes back to the time spent learning to draw (her 
>> shadowing is confusing and these are not abstracts) and, she may not 
>> "understand" her subjects and relies on vision alone to define it...just 
>> thinking out loud.
>> Evry time I go to my dentist's for cleanings, the paintings around the 
>> place are all different...oh, this artist is married to my dentist. So, I 
>> am confronted with these large canvases and I just stare at one painting 
>> at a time to try to "see" what she is doing and why it is that it bothers 
>> me-grapes and wine bottles just don't float! OK...back to the no rules 
>> thing, I love that, but...hmmm...I think I'll rethink this.Maybe these do 
>> float... Maybe I don't need a reason to be distracted by her lack of 
>> grounding things, in my view. Maybe I just don't like her work!
>>
>> Yes, the energy here is nice-the clearer we can be about what we are 
>> doing, want to do, etc...that clarity is quite fresh. But this applies in 
>> all endeavors, of course. That is until one comes to the point that there 
>> just aren't the words for what we think/feel.  the space and energy 
>> around creating from the self are nebulous-like trying to tack jello to a 
>> tree. But we just love trying, don't we? -loving the subjects here has 
>> been very energizing.
>> Patty
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 7:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, 
>> Issue 6
>>
>>
>>> As a drawing teacher, I understood that if my sighted students did not 
>>> understand the object they were drawing by using all their senses, then 
>>> they did not understand that thing at all. Because the sense of sight is 
>>> so powerful and takes over all the other senses, a sighted person just 
>>> takes a very quick glance at things and THINKS she understands it and 
>>> she does not at all.  The drawing will be merely superficial and will 
>>> not show the nuances of it, as it is in space, it's weight, etc. When 
>>> blindfolded, the student begins to understand the object on deeper 
>>> levels of understanding. What happens is that by relying only on sight, 
>>> the student cannot really SEE a thing at all - but they think they can. 
>>> So blindfolding the student had nothing to do with how a blind person 
>>> experiences the thing, it had to do with really SEEING the thing. Seeing 
>>> is something that is experienced over a very long period of time - it 
>>> required that the person slow way down, and focus on the moment in time 
>>> as they touch the object - and they are at the same time, learning how 
>>> it really looks.  Sight alone cannot do this for us. This is very 
>>> intersting to me because I had never been around a blind person in my 
>>> life, with the exception of two different people whom I had only very 
>>> limited time with. I would not have made the connection between sight 
>>> loss and the drawing experience at that time at all.  Only in hind 
>>> sight, after my own sight loss, can I truly understand how important 
>>> these lessons were.
>>>
>>> Lynda
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Laurie Porter" <free.spirit1 at live.com>
>>> To: <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 6:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, 
>>> Issue 6
>>>
>>>
>>>> The idea that all children blind or sighted can draw pictures 
>>>> fascinates me. I was legally blind all my life until 2003 when I lost 
>>>> all my sight. both of my parents  were blind, and I recall them never 
>>>> knowing how to draw anything However, fundimentally  all children, 
>>>> blind or sighted learn basics like drawing a circle or square then 
>>>> later other shapes. I might have been a better drawer  if I had access 
>>>> to tactual shapes. I was encouraged to use my vision to do everything 
>>>> but my parents lacked the ability to teach me how to process things 
>>>> visually which comes to all children at a very early age. this is a 
>>>> very interesting t,   -----Original Message----- 
>>>> From: artists-making-art-request at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 2:03 PM
>>>> To: artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6
>>>>
>>>> Send Artists-making-art mailing list submissions to
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>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>>   1. Re: drawing the internal dialogue (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>   2. Re: drawing the internal dialogue (Sahar's Beaded Creations)
>>>>   3. Re: drawing the internal dialogue (Patricia C. Estes)
>>>>   4. Re: Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5 (Laurie Porter)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 08:56:25 -0500
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>> Message-ID: <2E945A7FA30F4110A726835349F4841D at Lambert>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Patricia, you bring up the most fascinating things. This is another one 
>>>> of those things that is so enjoyable to think about. Drawing!  We do 
>>>> not need sight to draw, I am absolutely sure of that. In fact, in many 
>>>> of my drawing courses, I had students draw blindfolded. They had to 
>>>> feel the objects, then return to the easel to do their drawings. They 
>>>> could walk over to feel it as often as they liked during the process, 
>>>> but they were not permitted to have a physical "look" at it with the 
>>>> eyes. The drawings they made were astounding - so full of livingness 
>>>> and so magical. You are making me remember those things that I had not 
>>>> thought of for a very long time - and this is great for me because I am 
>>>> going to be a speaker at a conference on disabilities and inclusion in 
>>>> March, and this is exactly what I needed to be thinking about as I prep 
>>>> for that lecture.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone else has some examples of experiences for me, that I could 
>>>> share with the audience, please let me know.  I want to really make my 
>>>> audience understand that blind people have the same passions for art 
>>>> and art making as anyone else. We just have to learn adaptive ways of 
>>>> working, but we can do it, and we love to do it and it brings us great 
>>>> joy.
>>>>
>>>> yes, I used Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain as a textbook for 
>>>> Drawing courses at the college! I also used "The Natural Way to Draw" 
>>>> by Nicolaides.  I have worked my way through both of these books for 
>>>> years on end. Drawing is the core of everything we do as artists and 
>>>> without a good foundation in drawing, it's difficult to move on - it is 
>>>> the structure on which we build everything else no matter the medium we 
>>>> work with. Drawing puts us in touch with the internal dialogue and we 
>>>> become more aware and connected with the object we are drawing.
>>>>
>>>> The interesting thing about drawing, to me, has always been that all 
>>>> children seem to know how to draw by instinct. How does that "fit" in 
>>>> your experience, Patricia?  I have never encountered a child who did 
>>>> not know how to draw and make pictures - I have always thought we are 
>>>> born with these abilities.  I think a child born blind would have this 
>>>> same inclination, if provided with the tools and opportunities early 
>>>> on, but that is a guess on my part. I would love to know more about 
>>>> this by someone who has had the experience as a very small child 
>>>> without sight. Drawing is more, far more, than the thing that is left 
>>>> on the page after the person has made it. It is a whole body 
>>>> experience - physical and spiritual experience, in my experiences.  So, 
>>>> it seems to me that no sight is needed to make drawings. I like to say, 
>>>> about my own work, that the "thing that is on display on the gallery 
>>>> wall is the residue left behind as I was making art."  It is not the 
>>>> art itself, it is the tracks that show I was there.  The art was what 
>>>> transpired within me as I worked on it and the piece in the gallery is 
>>>> the evidence that I was there.
>>>>
>>>> I have to say that without my extensive drawing background, I would not 
>>>> be who I am today as a blind person. I have a small amount of 
>>>> peripheral vision that is enough that I can detect movement. Those 
>>>> movements are "gestures" and it is through the gestures around me that 
>>>> I navigate the world and that I identify people and things. It is the 
>>>> essence of everything - gesture. When I am making my art these days, it 
>>>> is because I am accustomed to using gesture and can continue to do that 
>>>> without sight. Touch is gesture, and that is how I understand what I 
>>>> touch. I feel it's internal and external gesture.
>>>>
>>>> OH, that is so funny about your 5 year old's comment about using his 
>>>> "girl brain."  This is what I found so fascinating when I was reading 
>>>> this book, that the entire structure of the brain is very different in 
>>>> males and females. Each individual part of the brain is different 
>>>> between the sexes - so it is a physical as well as psychological 
>>>> difference. She explored many different nuances that really helped me 
>>>> as a blind person as well, as I was reading. It gave me new insight 
>>>> into different aspects we encounter due to sight loss. I would highly 
>>>> recommend it to anyone who has interest in learning more about how the 
>>>> brain functions, and it is explored in a way that a non-science person 
>>>> like me coulnd understand and enjoy.
>>>>
>>>> This is all certainly another aspect of  the discussion on difference 
>>>> between art and crafts thought process and ways of "seeing."  Lynda
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>  From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:54 PM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real 
>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy 
>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>> that five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt 
>>>> out emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>  Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, and 
>>>> we didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>  Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>> example is that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and 
>>>> she noticed that she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter 
>>>> Relationship" and he was reading "How to get the most out of your Band 
>>>> Saw."
>>>>  To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>> book,"Drawing on the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if 
>>>> one has time to complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing 
>>>> things upside down.
>>>>  Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym says 
>>>> to "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel lines.
>>>>
>>>>  OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>  Patty
>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>    From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>> Luann Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a 
>>>> long time ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much 
>>>> easier if I had known these things about the differences between male 
>>>> and female brains. And, my goodness, I would have been a much better 
>>>> teacher, too. I would have a better understanding of my fellow human 
>>>> beings - but at least I do understand a lot more about it now since 
>>>> reading this book. It was so enlightening to me and I was telling my 
>>>> husband all about it as we would ride along in the truck. One day he 
>>>> said to me, "I guess it is like this conversation we are having right 
>>>> now in this truck."  This was his insight as I was rapidly sharing so 
>>>> much information as he sat quietly listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now I 
>>>> understand this conversation here in this truck so much better."  We 
>>>> laughed.
>>>>
>>>>    Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>> other. We all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother 
>>>> taking an afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and 
>>>> to creat a picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. 
>>>> Then, it continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each 
>>>> morning, one summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew a 
>>>> blouse, skirt, and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn 
>>>> from those around us, and how lucky we were to have them in our life. 
>>>> What I do today, is an homage to those women in my life so long ago. I 
>>>> celebrate them with every stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I 
>>>> say "thank you" to them for giving me the beginnings of who I am today, 
>>>> and who I am becoming with each new day and each new idea I work with.
>>>>
>>>>    Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>      From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>      I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>> simultaneously. I am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I 
>>>> will admit, my left brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl 
>>>> Brain is winning! (no put down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>
>>>>      Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>      pece out
>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>        From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>        To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>        Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better 
>>>> get back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>> place for a discussion like this.
>>>>
>>>>        That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>> between the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter 
>>>> can take the exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is 
>>>> quite different and the results are quite different. It's really about 
>>>> "ideas" and "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and 
>>>> where we go with the materials in our process of working.  In 
>>>> Pittsburgh, PA there is a very fine museum/gallery called the Society 
>>>> of Contemporary Crafts - now, what is done there, and shown there is 
>>>> high art. So there is crafts and there is CRAFT, too.  There is the 
>>>> "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very distinct differences 
>>>> between them - and as a sculptor you would be very aware of this, too.
>>>>
>>>>        I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>> College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, 
>>>> as I have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English 
>>>> Literature. Because of this background, I was very marketable for a 
>>>> good position.  I was able to create multi-discipline courses - alway a 
>>>> combination of literature and art, as well as studio courses in 
>>>> painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a job, 
>>>> working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so many projects with 
>>>> profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in conferences on 
>>>> interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for art 
>>>> and literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>> traveled to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria 
>>>> for my students every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and 
>>>> out on location every day, and at the end of the month they had a 
>>>> show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and students 
>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico 
>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I am 
>>>> now retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>
>>>>        OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a 
>>>> piece done today!
>>>>        Lynda
>>>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>          From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>          To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>          Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>          Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading 
>>>> this is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all 
>>>> sorts of shades in the continuum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off 
>>>> on a tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. 
>>>> They started laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it 
>>>> from day to day. And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a 
>>>> good pilot you know and follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I 
>>>> am an artist and I am paid to break the rules. No one wants to hear 
>>>> from me if it has already been done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          Ann Cunningham
>>>>          Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>          303 238 4760
>>>>          ann at acunningham.com
>>>>          http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>          http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            -------- Original Message --------
>>>>            Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>            From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>            Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>            To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>            <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>>            ?
>>>>            Hi Laurie,
>>>>            So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, 
>>>> I am like you, I just came on to ask a question about something I 
>>>> needed to know and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my 
>>>> question.  I am furiously working right now (oops, split that 
>>>> infinitive!) getting work done for the opening of a two-person 
>>>> exhibition at a museum - the show is called _Vision and Revision:  Two 
>>>> artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ It is my pottery and 
>>>> mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It opens one 
>>>> month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be done 
>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>> working on the details. The show will appear at two locations this year 
>>>> and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the art works, 
>>>> Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the 
>>>> gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at Geneva 
>>>> College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine arts and 
>>>> humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical 
>>>> context of my work and where the ideas have come from when creating it.
>>>>
>>>>            To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak 
>>>> at a conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>> day before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be 
>>>> working on every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 
>>>> 1/2 years ago, but I am still very much involved in everything but 
>>>> being in the classroom.
>>>>
>>>>            Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>> between an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that 
>>>> wide. Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most things 
>>>> are very far apart philisophically.
>>>>
>>>>            Both work with the hands, and both love working with the 
>>>> hands and most have done it all their life.
>>>>            Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>
>>>>            While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>> something and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no 
>>>> notion of where the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has 
>>>> a clearly defined path to the finished product. The artist has only 
>>>> some inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>
>>>>            The other very big thing I see as a difference between them 
>>>> is that the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate 
>>>> from those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other 
>>>> hand, the mature artist has learned that there are no rules at all. 
>>>> They may begin in the early stages by learning techniques, but 
>>>> eventually with the years of working, the light comes on in her brain 
>>>> when she discovers one day - she is free of all rules when making art. 
>>>> Everything can be challenged, everything can be changed, and everything 
>>>> is fair game, for the artist. Is there any other profession in this 
>>>> world where there are no rules? It's the most exhilerating feeling to 
>>>> know that there are absolutely no rules whatsoever for me. Wow, makes 
>>>> me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, free, at last!
>>>>
>>>>            Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is 
>>>> where the person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>
>>>>            A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>> usually content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then 
>>>> moves on to learn something else and does that again with it. The 
>>>> artist can take crafts materials (which is what you and I both do) and 
>>>> techniques, and then take them far beyond because they will combine 
>>>> their techniques and materials with the imagination.  If you can teach 
>>>> it, it is usually a craft. If you cannot teach it, it is normally art. 
>>>> Art can begin by learning some techniques, or using craft materials, 
>>>> but then the person begins to ask the "what if" questions, and takes 
>>>> lots of risks, failures, and bends in the road on the way to it 
>>>> becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that is never satisfied with 
>>>> just the learning of something new, but one that constantly questions, 
>>>> experiments, and never knows where the "end" will be, or even if it 
>>>> will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have just said and 
>>>> will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it.  An "artist" 
>>>> is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that simple, and 
>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>> and each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new 
>>>> discoveries.
>>>>
>>>>            One can see the difference when you look at work in types of 
>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of 
>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>> on display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>> and each is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, 
>>>> with different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one 
>>>> has decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the 
>>>> decision she has made.
>>>>
>>>>            Lynda
>>>>
>>>>            Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>              ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>              From: Laurie Porter
>>>>              To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>              Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>              Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>              Hi Folks:
>>>>
>>>>              I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>> wisconsin who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is 
>>>> beadwork. I make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads 
>>>> sewn together with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but 
>>>> I have always looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>
>>>>              so, I have a basic question. What is the difference 
>>>> between an art and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of 
>>>> art  but are all arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you 
>>>> for getting this list going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of 
>>>> seeing in our efforts to bring blind people together who love to both 
>>>> create and appreciate the visual arts.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>              _______________________________________________
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>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 09:41:10 -0600
>>>> From: "Sahar's Beaded Creations" <sahar at inebraska.com>
>>>> To: "'An exploration of art by and for blind persons'"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>> Message-ID: <024c01cf24e4$31086190$931924b0$@inebraska.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Hello, Lynda,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I remember drawing as a small child, and I really think I would have 
>>>> been able to develop the skill had that skill been cultivated.  I think 
>>>> that the teachers figured blind people couldn?t draw, so I don?t 
>>>> remember them involving us in that after Kindergarten.  However, that?s 
>>>> not why I wrote. I wrote because I wondered if you?d ever heard of the 
>>>> totally blind Turkish painter, Asraf.  Apparently, who can paint in 
>>>> vivid detail. I find that truly fascinating.  He might be someone you 
>>>> might want to look up.  Take care.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>
>>>> Sahar Husseini
>>>>
>>>> For hand-crafted, one-of-a-kind jewelry, please visit my Website at 
>>>> <http://www.saharscreations.com> www.saharscreations.com Find me on 
>>>> Facebook at  <http://www.facebook.com/saharscreations> 
>>>> www.facebook.com/saharscreations And remember, "Obstacles don't have to 
>>>> stop you.
>>>>
>>>> If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up.
>>>>
>>>> Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it."
>>>>
>>>> Michael Jordan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Artists-making-art [mailto:artists-making-art-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 7:56 AM
>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Patricia, you bring up the most fascinating things. This is another one 
>>>> of those things that is so enjoyable to think about. Drawing!  We do 
>>>> not need sight to draw, I am absolutely sure of that. In fact, in many 
>>>> of my drawing courses, I had students draw blindfolded. They had to 
>>>> feel the objects, then return to the easel to do their drawings. They 
>>>> could walk over to feel it as often as they liked during the process, 
>>>> but they were not permitted to have a physical "look" at it with the 
>>>> eyes. The drawings they made were astounding - so full of livingness 
>>>> and so magical. You are making me remember those things that I had not 
>>>> thought of for a very long time - and this is great for me because I am 
>>>> going to be a speaker at a conference on disabilities and inclusion in 
>>>> March, and this is exactly what I needed to be thinking about as I prep 
>>>> for that lecture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If anyone else has some examples of experiences for me, that I could 
>>>> share with the audience, please let me know.  I want to really make my 
>>>> audience understand that blind people have the same passions for art 
>>>> and art making as anyone else. We just have to learn adaptive ways of 
>>>> working, but we can do it, and we love to do it and it brings us great 
>>>> joy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> yes, I used Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain as a textbook for 
>>>> Drawing courses at the college! I also used "The Natural Way to Draw" 
>>>> by Nicolaides.  I have worked my way through both of these books for 
>>>> years on end. Drawing is the core of everything we do as artists and 
>>>> without a good foundation in drawing, it's difficult to move on - it is 
>>>> the structure on which we build everything else no matter the medium we 
>>>> work with. Drawing puts us in touch with the internal dialogue and we 
>>>> become more aware and connected with the object we are drawing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The interesting thing about drawing, to me, has always been that all 
>>>> children seem to know how to draw by instinct. How does that "fit" in 
>>>> your experience, Patricia?  I have never encountered a child who did 
>>>> not know how to draw and make pictures - I have always thought we are 
>>>> born with these abilities.  I think a child born blind would have this 
>>>> same inclination, if provided with the tools and opportunities early 
>>>> on, but that is a guess on my part. I would love to know more about 
>>>> this by someone who has had the experience as a very small child 
>>>> without sight. Drawing is more, far more, than the thing that is left 
>>>> on the page after the person has made it. It is a whole body 
>>>> experience - physical and spiritual experience, in my experiences.  So, 
>>>> it seems to me that no sight is needed to make drawings. I like to say, 
>>>> about my own work, that the "thing that is on display on the gallery 
>>>> wall is the residue left behind as I was making art."  It is not the 
>>>> art itself, it is the tracks that show I was there.  The art was what 
>>>> transpired within me as I worked on it and the piece in the gallery is 
>>>> the evidence that I was there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have to say that without my extensive drawing background, I would not 
>>>> be who I am today as a blind person. I have a small amount of 
>>>> peripheral vision that is enough that I can detect movement. Those 
>>>> movements are "gestures" and it is through the gestures around me that 
>>>> I navigate the world and that I identify people and things. It is the 
>>>> essence of everything - gesture. When I am making my art these days, it 
>>>> is because I am accustomed to using gesture and can continue to do that 
>>>> without sight. Touch is gesture, and that is how I understand what I 
>>>> touch. I feel it's internal and external gesture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OH, that is so funny about your 5 year old's comment about using his 
>>>> "girl brain."  This is what I found so fascinating when I was reading 
>>>> this book, that the entire structure of the brain is very different in 
>>>> males and females. Each individual part of the brain is different 
>>>> between the sexes - so it is a physical as well as psychological 
>>>> difference. She explored many different nuances that really helped me 
>>>> as a blind person as well, as I was reading. It gave me new insight 
>>>> into different aspects we encounter due to sight loss. I would highly 
>>>> recommend it to anyone who has interest in learning more about how the 
>>>> brain functions, and it is explored in a way that a non-science person 
>>>> like me coulnd understand and enjoy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is all certainly another aspect of  the discussion on difference 
>>>> between art and crafts thought process and ways of "seeing."  Lynda
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>
>>>> From: Patricia C. Estes <mailto:pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:54 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real 
>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy 
>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>> that five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt 
>>>> out emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, and 
>>>> we didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>
>>>> Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her example 
>>>> is that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and she 
>>>> noticed that she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter 
>>>> Relationship" and he was reading "How to get the most out of your Band 
>>>> Saw."
>>>>
>>>> To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>> book,"Drawing on the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if 
>>>> one has time to complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing 
>>>> things upside down.
>>>>
>>>> Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym says 
>>>> to "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel lines.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>
>>>> Patty
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>
>>>> From: Lynda Lambert <mailto:llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>
>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by Luann 
>>>> Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a long 
>>>> time ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much easier 
>>>> if I had known these things about the differences between male and 
>>>> female brains. And, my goodness, I would have been a much better 
>>>> teacher, too. I would have a better understanding of my fellow human 
>>>> beings - but at least I do understand a lot more about it now since 
>>>> reading this book. It was so enlightening to me and I was telling my 
>>>> husband all about it as we would ride along in the truck. One day he 
>>>> said to me, "I guess it is like this conversation we are having right 
>>>> now in this truck."  This was his insight as I was rapidly sharing so 
>>>> much information as he sat quietly listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now I 
>>>> understand this conversation here in this truck so much better."  We 
>>>> laughed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the other. 
>>>> We all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother taking an 
>>>> afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and to creat a 
>>>> picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. Then, it 
>>>> continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each morning, one 
>>>> summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew a blouse, 
>>>> skirt, and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn from those 
>>>> around us, and how lucky we were to have them in our life. What I do 
>>>> today, is an homage to those women in my life so long ago. I celebrate 
>>>> them with every stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I say "thank 
>>>> you" to them for giving me the beginnings of who I am today, and who I 
>>>> am becoming with each new day and each new idea I work with.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400 
>>>> <http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1> 
>>>> &sr=1-1
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>
>>>> From: Patricia C. Estes <mailto:pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>
>>>> I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter simultaneously. 
>>>> I am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my 
>>>> left brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is 
>>>> winning! (no put down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>
>>>> pece out
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>
>>>> From: Lynda Lambert <mailto:llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>
>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get 
>>>> back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>> place for a discussion like this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>> the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can 
>>>> take the exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is 
>>>> quite different and the results are quite different. It's really about 
>>>> "ideas" and "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and 
>>>> where we go with the materials in our process of working.  In 
>>>> Pittsburgh, PA there is a very fine museum/gallery called the Society 
>>>> of Contemporary Crafts - now, what is done there, and shown there is 
>>>> high art. So there is crafts and there is CRAFT, too.  There is the 
>>>> "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." very distinct differences 
>>>> between them - and as a sculptor you would be very aware of this, too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva College, 
>>>> in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I have 
>>>> my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature. 
>>>> Because of this background, I was very marketable for a good position. 
>>>> I was able to create multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of 
>>>> literature and art, as well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, 
>>>> printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a job, working in 
>>>> interdisciplinary studies and doing so many projects with profs in 
>>>> other disciplines.  I was very active in conferences on 
>>>> interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for art 
>>>> and literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>> traveled to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria 
>>>> for my students every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and 
>>>> out on location every day, and at the end of the month they had a 
>>>> show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and students 
>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico 
>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I am 
>>>> now retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>> done today!
>>>>
>>>> Lynda
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>
>>>> From: Ann at acunningham.com <mailto:Ann at acunningham.com>
>>>>
>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this is 
>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of 
>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a 
>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>> started laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from 
>>>> day to day. And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good 
>>>> pilot you know and follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an 
>>>> artist and I am paid to break the rules. No one wants to hear from me 
>>>> if it has already been done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ann Cunningham
>>>>
>>>> Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>
>>>> 303 238 4760
>>>>
>>>> ann at acunningham.com <mailto:ann at acunningham.com>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>
>>>> http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net 
>>>> <mailto:llambert at zoominternet.net> >
>>>> Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org> >
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>
>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am like 
>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to know 
>>>> and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>> furiously working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work 
>>>> done for the opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show 
>>>> is called _Vision and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not 
>>>> limited vision_ It is my pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a 
>>>> legally blind painter. It opens one month from today, and if I stop to 
>>>> think about what else has to be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't 
>>>> do that, but just will keep on working on the details. The show will 
>>>> appear at two locations this year and will have a video that plays in 
>>>> the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I 
>>>> will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in 
>>>> the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught when I was a 
>>>> professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll be 
>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas have 
>>>> come from when creating it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a 
>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day 
>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>> on every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>> ago, but I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>> classroom.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between an 
>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. Some 
>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are very 
>>>> far apart philisophically.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and most 
>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>
>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the satisfaction 
>>>> of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>> and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>> where the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>> defined path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings 
>>>> of possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that the 
>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from those 
>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the 
>>>> mature artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may 
>>>> begin in the early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with 
>>>> the years of working, the light comes on in her brain when she 
>>>> discovers one day - she is free of all rules when making art. 
>>>> Everything can be challenged, everything can be changed, and everything 
>>>> is fair game, for the artist. Is there any other profession in this 
>>>> world where there are no rules? It's the most exhilerating feeling to 
>>>> know that there are absolutely no rules whatsoever for me. Wow, makes 
>>>> me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, free, at last!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the 
>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually 
>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>> to learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can 
>>>> take crafts materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, 
>>>> and then take them far beyond because they will combine their 
>>>> techniques and materials with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it 
>>>> is usually a craft. If you cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art 
>>>> can begin by learning some techniques, or using craft materials, but 
>>>> then the person begins to ask the "what if" questions, and takes lots 
>>>> of risks, failures, and bends in the road on the way to it becoming a 
>>>> work of art. It is a "mind set" that is never satisfied with just the 
>>>> learning of something new, but one that constantly questions, 
>>>> experiments, and never knows where the "end" will be, or even if it 
>>>> will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have just said and 
>>>> will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. An "artist" 
>>>> is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that simple, and 
>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>> and each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new 
>>>> discoveries.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of 
>>>> environments. One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of 
>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>> on display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>> and each is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, 
>>>> with different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one 
>>>> has decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the 
>>>> decision she has made.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>
>>>> From: Laurie Porter <mailto:free.spirit1 at live.com>
>>>>
>>>> To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org 
>>>> <mailto:Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin who is 
>>>> a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I make 
>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>> with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>> looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art and 
>>>> a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>> arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>> list going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our 
>>>> efforts to bring blind people together who love to both create and 
>>>> appreciate the visual arts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _____
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Artists-making-art:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _____
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 11:28:45 -0500
>>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>> Message-ID: <FBEE8CE951524EB0A97347CAF39B9E92 at Wellness>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Good morning,
>>>> Linda, I am glad to be of some "help" in your preparation!! I guess I 
>>>> needed a Job!
>>>> The discussions have been intriguing...in the sense that I am being 
>>>> reminded of things I already know. Everyone's input has been fun!
>>>> About drawing: APH has a tactile board for raised line drawings/math 
>>>> assignments, etc. This is what I would put in the hands of a blind 
>>>> child-the stylus can be used for lines and a type of "shading." And of 
>>>> course, it would also be useful for a blind child to do the same thing 
>>>> as a sighted child, as you mentioned: feel the object and draw it.
>>>> (OK, get ready, I digress a bit: This reminds me of the work I have 
>>>> done as an Infant Massage Instructor-there are certain, simple strokes 
>>>> that we teach the parents and the result is calming, of course ...well, 
>>>> unless said baby being massaged is done!... but one of the many 
>>>> objectives of this massage stroke is "to help the infant to organize 
>>>> his/her world." In this case:"These things are part of me...legs, 
>>>> arms...and this is me here and that is someone else over there." At 
>>>> which point the baby realizes that they are getting some undivided 
>>>> attention and they get all excited! And with a blind child, especially, 
>>>> or the newly blinded, this art exercise in observing one's world would 
>>>> be really helpful in sorting out, organizing and internalizing. But it 
>>>> would be helpful for *anyone* to do, and for the same reasons!)
>>>> I like that your intent is not to try to get students to experience 
>>>> what life is like as a blind person!! It is just an art play!
>>>>
>>>> OK...about drawing/sketching, I think that is as essential as learning 
>>>> the basics of music before playing in an orchestra. As much as we'd 
>>>> love to skip right over the practice sessions, that just is no other 
>>>> way. And I do think that there are "work arounds" for blind artists of 
>>>> any age who have never seen, to learn perspective and to share it. (Ann 
>>>> would know lots about this). Because of my background in classical 
>>>> sketching with my mom, I could branch out to design and suggest/gesture 
>>>> the images...like fashion design and even like impressionistic 
>>>> painting. Reducing the "story" to the most interesting lines/colors. 
>>>> (which will be different for each artist and viewer).
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes-
>>>> Patty
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>  From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>  Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 8:56 AM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Patricia, you bring up the most fascinating things. This is another 
>>>> one of those things that is so enjoyable to think about. Drawing!  We 
>>>> do not need sight to draw, I am absolutely sure of that. In fact, in 
>>>> many of my drawing courses, I had students draw blindfolded. They had 
>>>> to feel the objects, then return to the easel to do their drawings. 
>>>> They could walk over to feel it as often as they liked during the 
>>>> process, but they were not permitted to have a physical "look" at it 
>>>> with the eyes. The drawings they made were astounding - so full of 
>>>> livingness and so magical. You are making me remember those things that 
>>>> I had not thought of for a very long time - and this is great for me 
>>>> because I am going to be a speaker at a conference on disabilities and 
>>>> inclusion in March, and this is exactly what I needed to be thinking 
>>>> about as I prep for that lecture.
>>>>
>>>>  If anyone else has some examples of experiences for me, that I could 
>>>> share with the audience, please let me know.  I want to really make my 
>>>> audience understand that blind people have the same passions for art 
>>>> and art making as anyone else. We just have to learn adaptive ways of 
>>>> working, but we can do it, and we love to do it and it brings us great 
>>>> joy.
>>>>
>>>>  yes, I used Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain as a textbook for 
>>>> Drawing courses at the college! I also used "The Natural Way to Draw" 
>>>> by Nicolaides.  I have worked my way through both of these books for 
>>>> years on end. Drawing is the core of everything we do as artists and 
>>>> without a good foundation in drawing, it's difficult to move on - it is 
>>>> the structure on which we build everything else no matter the medium we 
>>>> work with. Drawing puts us in touch with the internal dialogue and we 
>>>> become more aware and connected with the object we are drawing.
>>>>
>>>>  The interesting thing about drawing, to me, has always been that all 
>>>> children seem to know how to draw by instinct. How does that "fit" in 
>>>> your experience, Patricia?  I have never encountered a child who did 
>>>> not know how to draw and make pictures - I have always thought we are 
>>>> born with these abilities.  I think a child born blind would have this 
>>>> same inclination, if provided with the tools and opportunities early 
>>>> on, but that is a guess on my part. I would love to know more about 
>>>> this by someone who has had the experience as a very small child 
>>>> without sight. Drawing is more, far more, than the thing that is left 
>>>> on the page after the person has made it. It is a whole body 
>>>> experience - physical and spiritual experience, in my experiences.  So, 
>>>> it seems to me that no sight is needed to make drawings. I like to say, 
>>>> about my own work, that the "thing that is on display on the gallery 
>>>> wall is the residue left behind as I was making art."  It is not the 
>>>> art itself, it is the tracks that show I was there.  The art was what 
>>>> transpired within me as I worked on it and the piece in the gallery is 
>>>> the evidence that I was there.
>>>>
>>>>  I have to say that without my extensive drawing background, I would 
>>>> not be who I am today as a blind person. I have a small amount of 
>>>> peripheral vision that is enough that I can detect movement. Those 
>>>> movements are "gestures" and it is through the gestures around me that 
>>>> I navigate the world and that I identify people and things. It is the 
>>>> essence of everything - gesture. When I am making my art these days, it 
>>>> is because I am accustomed to using gesture and can continue to do that 
>>>> without sight. Touch is gesture, and that is how I understand what I 
>>>> touch. I feel it's internal and external gesture.
>>>>
>>>>  OH, that is so funny about your 5 year old's comment about using his 
>>>> "girl brain."  This is what I found so fascinating when I was reading 
>>>> this book, that the entire structure of the brain is very different in 
>>>> males and females. Each individual part of the brain is different 
>>>> between the sexes - so it is a physical as well as psychological 
>>>> difference. She explored many different nuances that really helped me 
>>>> as a blind person as well, as I was reading. It gave me new insight 
>>>> into different aspects we encounter due to sight loss. I would highly 
>>>> recommend it to anyone who has interest in learning more about how the 
>>>> brain functions, and it is explored in a way that a non-science person 
>>>> like me coulnd understand and enjoy.
>>>>
>>>>  This is all certainly another aspect of  the discussion on difference 
>>>> between art and crafts thought process and ways of "seeing."  Lynda
>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>    From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:54 PM
>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real 
>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy 
>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>> that five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt 
>>>> out emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>    Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, 
>>>> and we didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>    Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>> example is that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and 
>>>> she noticed that she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter 
>>>> Relationship" and he was reading "How to get the most out of your Band 
>>>> Saw."
>>>>    To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>> book,"Drawing on the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if 
>>>> one has time to complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing 
>>>> things upside down.
>>>>    Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym 
>>>> says to "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel 
>>>> lines.
>>>>
>>>>    OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>    Patty
>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>      From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>> Luann Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a 
>>>> long time ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much 
>>>> easier if I had known these things about the differences between male 
>>>> and female brains. And, my goodness, I would have been a much better 
>>>> teacher, too. I would have a better understanding of my fellow human 
>>>> beings - but at least I do understand a lot more about it now since 
>>>> reading this book. It was so enlightening to me and I was telling my 
>>>> husband all about it as we would ride along in the truck. One day he 
>>>> said to me, "I guess it is like this conversation we are having right 
>>>> now in this truck."  This was his insight as I was rapidly sharing so 
>>>> much information as he sat quietly listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now I 
>>>> understand this conversation here in this truck so much better."  We 
>>>> laughed.
>>>>
>>>>      Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>> other. We all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother 
>>>> taking an afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and 
>>>> to creat a picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. 
>>>> Then, it continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each 
>>>> morning, one summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew a 
>>>> blouse, skirt, and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn 
>>>> from those around us, and how lucky we were to have them in our life. 
>>>> What I do today, is an homage to those women in my life so long ago. I 
>>>> celebrate them with  every stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I 
>>>> say "thank you" to them for giving me the beginnings of who I am today, 
>>>> and who I am becoming with each new day and each new idea I work with.
>>>>
>>>>      Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>        From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>        To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>        Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>        I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>> simultaneously. I am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I 
>>>> will admit, my left brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl 
>>>> Brain is winning! (no put down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>
>>>>        Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>        pece out
>>>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>          From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>          To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>          Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>          Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I 
>>>> better get back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be 
>>>> a good place for a discussion like this.
>>>>
>>>>          That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>> between the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter 
>>>> can take the exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is 
>>>> quite different and the results are quite different. It's really about 
>>>> "ideas" and "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and 
>>>> where we go with the materials in our process of working.  In 
>>>> Pittsburgh, PA there is a very fine museum/gallery called the Society 
>>>> of Contemporary Crafts - now, what is done there, and shown there is 
>>>> high art. So there is crafts and there is CRAFT, too.  There is the 
>>>> "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very distinct differences 
>>>> between them - and as a sculptor you would be very aware of this, too.
>>>>
>>>>          I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>> College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, 
>>>> as I have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English 
>>>> Literature. Because of this background, I was very marketable for a 
>>>> good position.  I was able to create multi-discipline courses - alway a 
>>>> combination of literature and art, as well as studio courses in 
>>>> painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a job, 
>>>> working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so many projects with 
>>>> profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in conferences on 
>>>> interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for art 
>>>> and literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>> traveled to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria 
>>>> for my students every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and 
>>>> out on location every day, and at the end of the month they had a 
>>>> show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and students 
>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico 
>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I am 
>>>> now retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>
>>>>          OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a 
>>>> piece done today!
>>>>          Lynda
>>>>            ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>            From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>            To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>            Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>            Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is 
>>>> reading this is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there 
>>>> are all sorts of shades in the continuum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went 
>>>> off on a tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. 
>>>> They started laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it 
>>>> from day to day. And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a 
>>>> good pilot you know and follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I 
>>>> am an artist and I am paid to break the rules. No one wants to hear 
>>>> from me if it has already been done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            Ann Cunningham
>>>>            Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>            303 238 4760
>>>>            ann at acunningham.com
>>>>            http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>            http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>              -------- Original Message --------
>>>>              Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new 
>>>> member
>>>>              From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>              Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>              To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>              <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>>              ?
>>>>              Hi Laurie,
>>>>              So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group 
>>>> though, I am like you, I just came on to ask a question about something 
>>>> I needed to know and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my 
>>>> question.  I am furiously working right now (oops, split that 
>>>> infinitive!) getting work done for the opening of a two-person 
>>>> exhibition at a museum - the show is called _Vision and Revision:  Two 
>>>> artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ It is my pottery and 
>>>> mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It opens one 
>>>> month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be done 
>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>> working on the details. The show will appear at two locations this year 
>>>> and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the art works, 
>>>> Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the 
>>>> gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at Geneva 
>>>> College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine arts and 
>>>> humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical 
>>>> context of my work and where the ideas have come from when creating it.
>>>>
>>>>              To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to 
>>>> speak at a conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two 
>>>> sessions, the day before we hang our show. So, I have those 
>>>> presentations to be working on every day now, too.  I officially 
>>>> retired from teaching 5 1/2 years ago, but I am still very much 
>>>> involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>
>>>>              Here is my response to the question you have asked. The 
>>>> gap between an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is 
>>>> that wide. Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most 
>>>> things are very far apart philisophically.
>>>>
>>>>              Both work with the hands, and both love working with the 
>>>> hands and most have done it all their life.
>>>>              Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>
>>>>              While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>> something and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no 
>>>> notion of where the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has 
>>>> a clearly defined path to the finished product. The artist has only 
>>>> some inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>
>>>>              The other very big thing I see as a difference between 
>>>> them is that the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever 
>>>> deviate from those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the 
>>>> other hand, the mature artist has learned that there are no rules at 
>>>> all. They may begin in the early stages by learning techniques, but 
>>>> eventually with the years of working, the light comes on in her brain 
>>>> when she discovers one day - she is free of all rules when making art. 
>>>> Everything can be challenged, everything can be changed, and everything 
>>>> is fair game, for the artist. Is there any other profession in this 
>>>> world where there are no rules? It's the most exhilerating feeling to 
>>>> know that there are absolutely no rules whatsoever for me. Wow, makes 
>>>> me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, free, at last!
>>>>
>>>>              Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is 
>>>> where the person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>
>>>>              A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>> usually content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then 
>>>> moves on to learn something else and does that again with it. The 
>>>> artist can take crafts materials (which is what you and I both do) and 
>>>> techniques, and then take them far beyond because they will combine 
>>>> their techniques and materials with the imagination.  If you can teach 
>>>> it, it is usually a craft. If you cannot teach it, it is normally art. 
>>>> Art can begin by learning some techniques, or using craft materials, 
>>>> but then the person begins to ask the "what if" questions, and takes 
>>>> lots of risks, failures, and bends in the road on the way to it 
>>>> becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that is never satisfied with 
>>>> just the learning of something new, but one that constantly questions, 
>>>> experiments, and never knows where the "end" will be, or even if it 
>>>> will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have just said and 
>>>> will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it.  An "artist" 
>>>> is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that simple, and 
>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>> and each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new 
>>>> discoveries.
>>>>
>>>>              One can see the difference when you look at work in types 
>>>> of environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>> of things that are basically all the same while the other will have 
>>>> work on display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they 
>>>> "fit" and each is very happy with where they are. They are different 
>>>> animals, with different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. 
>>>> Each one has decided their own path and each one is comfortable with 
>>>> the decision she has made.
>>>>
>>>>              Lynda
>>>>
>>>>              Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>                From: Laurie Porter
>>>>                To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>                Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>                Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                Hi Folks:
>>>>
>>>>                I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>> wisconsin who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is 
>>>> beadwork. I make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads 
>>>> sewn together with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but 
>>>> I have always looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>
>>>>                so, I have a basic question. What is the difference 
>>>> between an art and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of 
>>>> art but are all arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for 
>>>> getting this list going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of 
>>>> seeing in our efforts to bring blind people together who love to both 
>>>> create and appreciate the visual arts.
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>                _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 14:03:46 -0600
>>>> From: Laurie Porter <free.spirit1 at live.com>
>>>> To: <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16,
>>>> Issue 5
>>>> Message-ID: <BLU177-DS22E118870BD6FD8E1EEB3AD960 at phx.gbl>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>
>>>> Linda:
>>>>
>>>> thanks so much for this definition of the difference between art and 
>>>> craft.
>>>> I think I am now truly where I belong, and given this explanation, I 
>>>> know
>>>> now why I have never been satisfied with just finishing a crafting 
>>>> project.
>>>> I've always found it to be decidedly limiting in imagination, 
>>>> creativity and
>>>> origionality. .
>>>>
>>>> I have been so impressed with the messages I've read on this  list so 
>>>> far.
>>>> It sounds like there is some wonderful energy on this listand am 
>>>> looking
>>>> forward  read ing more.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>> From: artists-making-art-request at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 6:00 AM
>>>> To: artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5
>>>>
>>>> Send Artists-making-art mailing list submissions to
>>>> artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> artists-making-art-owner at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Artists-making-art digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>>   1. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>   2. Re: arts or crafts new member (Ann at acunningham.com)
>>>>   3. Re: arts or crafts new member (Jewel)
>>>>   4. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>   5. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>   6. Re: arts or crafts new member (Patricia C. Estes)
>>>>   7. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>   8. Re: arts or crafts new member (Patricia C. Estes)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 08:03:18 -0500
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>> Message-ID: <6FA5C73038C44B4D9FE3E40F647EF6C7 at Lambert>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am like 
>>>> you,
>>>> I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to know and 
>>>> was so
>>>> glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am furiously 
>>>> working
>>>> right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for the 
>>>> opening
>>>> of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called _Vision and
>>>> Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It is 
>>>> my
>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>> opens
>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>> done
>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>> working on
>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>> have a
>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>> and
>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>> for
>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>> when
>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>> be
>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas have 
>>>> come
>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>
>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a 
>>>> conference
>>>> at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day before we 
>>>> hang
>>>> our show. So, I have those presentations to be working on every day 
>>>> now,
>>>> too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years ago, but I am 
>>>> still
>>>> very much involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>
>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between an
>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. Some 
>>>> basic
>>>> things may be similar between the two, but most things are very far 
>>>> apart
>>>> philisophically.
>>>>
>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and most 
>>>> have
>>>> done it all their life.
>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the satisfaction 
>>>> of
>>>> the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>
>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>> and
>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>> where the
>>>> end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly defined 
>>>> path
>>>> to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of possible
>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>
>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that the
>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from those 
>>>> rules,
>>>> as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the mature 
>>>> artist
>>>> has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in the 
>>>> early
>>>> stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of 
>>>> working, the
>>>> light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - she is free of 
>>>> all
>>>> rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, everything can be
>>>> changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any 
>>>> other
>>>> profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>> whatsoever
>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>> free,
>>>> at last!
>>>>
>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the 
>>>> person
>>>> eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>
>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually 
>>>> content to
>>>> learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on to learn
>>>> something else and does that again with it. The artist can take crafts
>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>> take
>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>> materials
>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>> you
>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to ask 
>>>> the
>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>> the
>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>> is
>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" will 
>>>> be,
>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>> just
>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it.  An
>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>> simple, and
>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>> and
>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>> discoveries.
>>>>
>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of 
>>>> environments.
>>>> One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of things that 
>>>> are
>>>> basically all the same while the other will have work  on display in a
>>>> gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and each is very 
>>>> happy
>>>> with where they are. They are different animals, with different ideas, 
>>>> and
>>>> different end results and outcomes. Each one has decided their own path 
>>>> and
>>>> each one is comfortable with the decision she has made.
>>>>
>>>> Lynda
>>>>
>>>> Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>  From: Laurie Porter
>>>>  To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>  Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>  Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Folks:
>>>>
>>>>  I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin who is 
>>>> a
>>>> fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I make
>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>> with
>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>> looked
>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>
>>>>  so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art and 
>>>> a
>>>> craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all arts
>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>> going
>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>> bring
>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the visual
>>>> arts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 07:08:33 -0700
>>>> From: <Ann at acunningham.com>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <20140207070833.c623b2ae39646abf92d04cdf9b47d475.1411573672.wbe at email06.secureserver.net>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 11:23:35 -0500
>>>> From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <CABORmNtm3Wu6C=MnMC68NHdt1eSgDN2T1hyq7dvCWkbROEPn8A at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>
>>>> I absolutely loved this explanation of arts versus crafts. I was also
>>>> wondering the difference, so this really makes it clear to me. I do
>>>> polymer clay. While I start with an expectation that it will be some
>>>> sort of elephant or a horse or whatever, who knows what twists and
>>>> turns will happen along the way. By the way, I'm currently working on
>>>> a Harry Potter style house elf holding a tray that can hold business
>>>> ccards. The house elf is done, but the tray still needs to be
>>>> finished.
>>>> Jewel
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/14, Ann at acunningham.com <Ann at acunningham.com> wrote:
>>>>> Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this is
>>>>> still
>>>>> torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of 
>>>>> shades in
>>>>> the continuum.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a 
>>>>> tangent
>>>>> tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They started
>>>>> laughing
>>>>> and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to day. And I
>>>>> said
>>>>> you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know and follow
>>>>> rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid to
>>>>> break
>>>>> the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>
>>>>> What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>
>>>>> Ann Cunningham
>>>>> Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>> 303 238 4760
>>>>> ann at acunningham.com
>>>>> http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>> http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>> Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called
>>>>>> _Vision and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited
>>>>>> vision_  It is my pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> painter. It opens one month from today, and if I stop to think about 
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> else has to be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> will keep on working on the details. The show will appear at two
>>>>>> locations
>>>>>> this year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the 
>>>>>> art
>>>>>> works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be teaching 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at Geneva
>>>>>> College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine arts 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical 
>>>>>> context
>>>>>> of my work and where the ideas have come from when creating it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>>> ago,
>>>>>> but I am still very much involved in everything but being in the
>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>> Some
>>>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are very 
>>>>>> far
>>>>>> apart philisophically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>> satisfaction
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>>>> defined
>>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of
>>>>>> possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from those
>>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the
>>>>>> mature
>>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of
>>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day
>>>>>> - she is free of all rules when making art. Everything can be 
>>>>>> challenged,
>>>>>> everything can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the 
>>>>>> artist.
>>>>>> Is
>>>>>> there any other profession in this world where there are no rules? 
>>>>>> It's
>>>>>> the most exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no 
>>>>>> rules
>>>>>> whatsoever for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. 
>>>>>> Free,
>>>>>> free, free, at last!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually 
>>>>>> content
>>>>>> to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on to 
>>>>>> learn
>>>>>> something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>> materials
>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>> ask
>>>>>> the "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be, or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I 
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with 
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that
>>>>>> simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making 
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> discoveries and each work leads to other querstions and more change 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> more new discoveries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> each is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>>> she
>>>>>> has made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>> To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a blind person from wisconsin who 
>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>> fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I make
>>>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always
>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art 
>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>> craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>>>> arts
>>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list
>>>>>>> going as it is something I've always dreamed of seeing in our 
>>>>>>> efforts to
>>>>>>> bring blind people together who love to both create and appreciate 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> visual arts.
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 11:44:39 -0500
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>> Message-ID: <00EE5DF7276148B7B8D3EE072C8258A0 at Lambert>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get 
>>>> back to
>>>> the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good place for a
>>>> discussion like this.
>>>>
>>>> That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>> the
>>>> two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can take 
>>>> the
>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>> different
>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>> with
>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is a 
>>>> very
>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>> what is
>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>> is
>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very
>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be very
>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>
>>>> I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva College, 
>>>> in
>>>> western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I have my 
>>>> MFA
>>>> in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.  Because of 
>>>> this
>>>> background, I was very marketable for a good position.  I was able to 
>>>> create
>>>> multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of literature and art, 
>>>> as
>>>> well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. 
>>>> It was
>>>> a dream of a job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so 
>>>> many
>>>> projects with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in 
>>>> conferences
>>>> on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for 
>>>> art and
>>>> literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>> traveled
>>>> to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria for my 
>>>> students
>>>> every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and out on location 
>>>> every
>>>> day, and at the end of the month they had a show - so much fun.  I also 
>>>> did
>>>> this with Puerto Rico, and students came to PR with me each spring as 
>>>> part
>>>> of their course in Puerto Rico Culture - which I have continued to 
>>>> visit
>>>> every March even though I am now retired. It bacame how we spent our 
>>>> spring
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>> done
>>>> today!
>>>> Lynda
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>  From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this is
>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of
>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a 
>>>> tangent
>>>> tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They started 
>>>> laughing
>>>> and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to day. And I 
>>>> said
>>>> you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know and follow
>>>> rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid to 
>>>> break
>>>> the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Ann Cunningham
>>>>  Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>  303 238 4760
>>>>  ann at acunningham.com
>>>>  http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>  http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    -------- Original Message --------
>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>    From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>    Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>    To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>    <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>>    ?
>>>>    Hi Laurie,
>>>>    So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>> like
>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to know 
>>>> and
>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am furiously
>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for 
>>>> the
>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>> _Vision
>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It 
>>>> is my
>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>> opens
>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>> done
>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>> working on
>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>> have a
>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>> and
>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>> for
>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>> when
>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>> be
>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas have 
>>>> come
>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>
>>>>    To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day
>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>> on
>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>> ago, but
>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>
>>>>    Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between 
>>>> an
>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. Some 
>>>> basic
>>>> things may be similar between the two, but most things are very far 
>>>> apart
>>>> philisophically.
>>>>
>>>>    Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>> most
>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>    Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>> satisfaction
>>>> of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>
>>>>    While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>> and
>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>> where the
>>>> end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly defined 
>>>> path
>>>> to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of possible
>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>
>>>>    The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>> the
>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from those 
>>>> rules,
>>>> as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the mature 
>>>> artist
>>>> has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in the 
>>>> early
>>>> stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of 
>>>> working, the
>>>> light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - she is free of 
>>>> all
>>>> rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, everything can be
>>>> changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any 
>>>> other
>>>> profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>> whatsoever
>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>> free,
>>>> at last!
>>>>
>>>>    Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the
>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>
>>>>    A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually
>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>> to
>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>> crafts
>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>> take
>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>> materials
>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>> you
>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to ask 
>>>> the
>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>> the
>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>> is
>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" will 
>>>> be,
>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>> just
>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it.  An
>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>> simple, and
>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>> and
>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>> discoveries.
>>>>
>>>>    One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of
>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>> on
>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and 
>>>> each
>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>> she has
>>>> made.
>>>>
>>>>    Lynda
>>>>
>>>>    Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>      From: Laurie Porter
>>>>      To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>      Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>      Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Hi Folks:
>>>>
>>>>      I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin 
>>>> who is
>>>> a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I make
>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>> with
>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>> looked
>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>
>>>>      so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art 
>>>> and
>>>> a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>> arts
>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>> going
>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>> bring
>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the visual
>>>> arts.
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>> URL:
>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140207/4e3190f0/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 5
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 11:47:54 -0500
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>> Message-ID: <687BD2626016484AB96E97E715BA11BD at Lambert>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Jewell, the material does not matter - we can go any way we want 
>>>> to
>>>> with it.  It is the ideas we work with that determine what will happen 
>>>> along
>>>> the way, plus allowing the medium to lead us - finding that "life of 
>>>> it's
>>>> own" that is there for us - a surprise or two along the way. Your 
>>>> project
>>>> sounds wonderful.  Lynda
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Jewel" <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:23 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I absolutely loved this explanation of arts versus crafts. I was also
>>>>> wondering the difference, so this really makes it clear to me. I do
>>>>> polymer clay. While I start with an expectation that it will be some
>>>>> sort of elephant or a horse or whatever, who knows what twists and
>>>>> turns will happen along the way. By the way, I'm currently working on
>>>>> a Harry Potter style house elf holding a tray that can hold business
>>>>> ccards. The house elf is done, but the tray still needs to be
>>>>> finished.
>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/14, Ann at acunningham.com <Ann at acunningham.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of 
>>>>>> shades
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the continuum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a
>>>>>> tangent
>>>>>> tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They started
>>>>>> laughing
>>>>>> and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to day. And 
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know and 
>>>>>> follow
>>>>>> rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid to
>>>>>> break
>>>>>> the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ann Cunningham
>>>>>> Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>> 303 238 4760
>>>>>> ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>> http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>> http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called
>>>>>>> _Vision and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited
>>>>>>> vision_  It is my pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> painter. It opens one month from today, and if I stop to think about
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> else has to be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but 
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> will keep on working on the details. The show will appear at two
>>>>>>> locations
>>>>>>> this year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the 
>>>>>>> art
>>>>>>> works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be teaching 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at 
>>>>>>> Geneva
>>>>>>> College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine arts 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical
>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>> of my work and where the ideas have come from when creating it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be 
>>>>>>> working on
>>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>>>> ago,
>>>>>>> but I am still very much involved in everything but being in the
>>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between 
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are 
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>> apart philisophically.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>>> satisfaction
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly
>>>>>>> defined
>>>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of
>>>>>>> possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the
>>>>>>> mature
>>>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day
>>>>>>> - she is free of all rules when making art. Everything can be
>>>>>>> challenged,
>>>>>>> everything can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the 
>>>>>>> artist.
>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>> there any other profession in this world where there are no rules? 
>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>> the most exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no 
>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>> whatsoever for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it.
>>>>>>> Free,
>>>>>>> free, free, at last!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually
>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>> to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on to 
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>>> materials
>>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. 
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>> the "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and 
>>>>>>> bends in
>>>>>>> the road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set"
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be, or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with 
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that
>>>>>>> simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making 
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> discoveries and each work leads to other querstions and more change 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> more new discoveries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have 
>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> each is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, 
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one 
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>> has made.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>>> To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a blind person from wisconsin who 
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>>>>> together
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always
>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>>>>> arts
>>>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>> going as it is something I've always dreamed of seeing in our 
>>>>>>>> efforts
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> bring blind people together who love to both create and appreciate 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> visual arts.
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 6
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 13:26:55 -0500
>>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>> Message-ID: <95E84F42EA7F4ADFA9DF888A9D45EA90 at Wellness>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>> articulate
>>>> these distinctions.
>>>> I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter simultaneously. 
>>>> I am
>>>> back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my left 
>>>> brain
>>>> does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is winning! (no put 
>>>> down
>>>> to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>
>>>> Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>> pece out
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>  From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get 
>>>> back
>>>> to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good place 
>>>> for a
>>>> discussion like this.
>>>>
>>>>  That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>> the
>>>> two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can take 
>>>> the
>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>> different
>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>> with
>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is a 
>>>> very
>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>> what is
>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>> is
>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very
>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be very
>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>
>>>>  I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>> College, in
>>>> western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I have my 
>>>> MFA
>>>> in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.  Because of 
>>>> this
>>>> background, I was very marketable for a good position.  I was able to 
>>>> create
>>>> multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of literature and art, 
>>>> as
>>>> well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. 
>>>> It was
>>>> a dream of a job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so 
>>>> many
>>>> projects with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in 
>>>> conferences
>>>> on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for 
>>>> art and
>>>> literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>> traveled
>>>> to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria for my 
>>>> students
>>>> every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and out on location 
>>>> every
>>>> day, and at the end of the month they had a show - so much fun.  I also 
>>>> did
>>>> this with Puerto Rico, and students came to PR with me each spring as 
>>>> part
>>>> of their course in Puerto Rico Culture - which I have continued to 
>>>> visit
>>>> every March even though I am now retired. It bacame how we spent our 
>>>> spring
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>>  OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>> done
>>>> today!
>>>>  Lynda
>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>    From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>> is
>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of
>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a
>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>> started
>>>> laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to 
>>>> day.
>>>> And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know 
>>>> and
>>>> follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am 
>>>> paid to
>>>> break the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>> done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Ann Cunningham
>>>>    Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>    303 238 4760
>>>>    ann at acunningham.com
>>>>    http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>    http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      -------- Original Message --------
>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>      From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>      Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>      To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>      <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>>      ?
>>>>      Hi Laurie,
>>>>      So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>> like
>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to know 
>>>> and
>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am furiously
>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for 
>>>> the
>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>> _Vision
>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It 
>>>> is my
>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>> opens
>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>> done
>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>> working on
>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>> have a
>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>> and
>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>> for
>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>> when
>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>> be
>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas have 
>>>> come
>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>
>>>>      To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day
>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>> on
>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>> ago, but
>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>
>>>>      Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>> between an
>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. Some 
>>>> basic
>>>> things may be similar between the two, but most things are very far 
>>>> apart
>>>> philisophically.
>>>>
>>>>      Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and
>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>      Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the
>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>
>>>>      While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>> something
>>>> and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>> where
>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>> defined
>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of 
>>>> possible
>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>
>>>>      The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is 
>>>> that
>>>> the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>> those
>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the 
>>>> mature
>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in 
>>>> the
>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of
>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - 
>>>> she is
>>>> free of all rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, 
>>>> everything
>>>> can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there 
>>>> any
>>>> other profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>> whatsoever
>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>> free,
>>>> at last!
>>>>
>>>>      Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where 
>>>> the
>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>
>>>>      A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually
>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>> to
>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>> crafts
>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>> take
>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>> materials
>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>> you
>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to ask 
>>>> the
>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>> the
>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>> is
>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" will 
>>>> be,
>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>> just
>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it.  An
>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>> simple, and
>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>> and
>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>> discoveries.
>>>>
>>>>      One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of
>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>> on
>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and 
>>>> each
>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>> she has
>>>> made.
>>>>
>>>>      Lynda
>>>>
>>>>      Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>        From: Laurie Porter
>>>>        To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>        Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>        Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        Hi Folks:
>>>>
>>>>        I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin 
>>>> who
>>>> is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>> make
>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>> with
>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>> looked
>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>
>>>>        so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an 
>>>> art
>>>> and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>> arts
>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>> going
>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>> bring
>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the visual
>>>> arts.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>        Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>        Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>        http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>        To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>> info
>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 7
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 13:48:48 -0500
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>> Message-ID: <0C82603A06C14829A1FDF9CA9822F0BB at Lambert>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by Luann
>>>> Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a long 
>>>> time
>>>> ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much easier if I 
>>>> had
>>>> known these things about the differences between male and female 
>>>> brains.
>>>> And, my goodness, I would have been a much better teacher, too. I would 
>>>> have
>>>> a better understanding of my fellow human beings - but at least I do
>>>> understand a lot more about it now since reading this book. It was so
>>>> enlightening to me and I was telling my husband all about it as we 
>>>> would
>>>> ride along in the truck. One day he said to me, "I guess it is like 
>>>> this
>>>> conversation we are having right now in this truck."  This was his 
>>>> insight
>>>> as I was rapidly sharing so much information as he sat quietly
>>>> listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now I understand this conversation here 
>>>> in
>>>> this truck so much better."  We laughed.
>>>>
>>>> Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the other. 
>>>> We
>>>> all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother taking an
>>>> afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and to creat a
>>>> picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. Then, it
>>>> continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each morning, one
>>>> summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew a blouse, 
>>>> skirt,
>>>> and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn from those around 
>>>> us,
>>>> and how lucky we were to have them in our life. What I do today, is an
>>>> homage to those women in my life so long ago. I celebrate them with 
>>>> every
>>>> stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I say "thank you" to them for
>>>> giving me the beginnings of who I am today, and who I am becoming with 
>>>> each
>>>> new day and each new idea I work with.
>>>>
>>>> Lynda
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>  From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to
>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>  I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter simultaneously. 
>>>> I
>>>> am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my 
>>>> left
>>>> brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is winning! 
>>>> (no put
>>>> down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>
>>>>  Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>  pece out
>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>    From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get
>>>> back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>> place
>>>> for a discussion like this.
>>>>
>>>>    That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>> the
>>>> two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can take 
>>>> the
>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>> different
>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>> with
>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is a 
>>>> very
>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>> what is
>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>> is
>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very
>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be very
>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>
>>>>    I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>> College,
>>>> in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I have 
>>>> my
>>>> MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.  Because 
>>>> of
>>>> this background, I was very marketable for a good position.  I was able 
>>>> to
>>>> create multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of literature and 
>>>> art,
>>>> as well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, 
>>>> drawing. It
>>>> was a dream of a job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so 
>>>> many
>>>> projects with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in 
>>>> conferences
>>>> on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for 
>>>> art and
>>>> literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>> traveled
>>>> to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria for my 
>>>> students
>>>> every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and out on location 
>>>> every
>>>> day, and at the end of the month they had a show - so much fun.  I also 
>>>> did
>>>> this with Puerto Rico, and students came to PR with me each spring as 
>>>> part
>>>> of their course in Puerto Rico Culture - which I have continued to 
>>>> visit
>>>> every March even though I am now retired. It bacame how we spent our 
>>>> spring
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>>    OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>> done
>>>> today!
>>>>    Lynda
>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>      From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading 
>>>> this is
>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of
>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a
>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>> started
>>>> laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to 
>>>> day.
>>>> And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know 
>>>> and
>>>> follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am 
>>>> paid to
>>>> break the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>> done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Ann Cunningham
>>>>      Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>      303 238 4760
>>>>      ann at acunningham.com
>>>>      http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>      http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        -------- Original Message --------
>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>        From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>        Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>        To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>        <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>>        ?
>>>>        Hi Laurie,
>>>>        So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I 
>>>> am
>>>> like you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>> know
>>>> and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>> furiously
>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for 
>>>> the
>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>> _Vision
>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It 
>>>> is my
>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>> opens
>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>> done
>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>> working on
>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>> have a
>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>> and
>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>> for
>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>> when
>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>> be
>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas have 
>>>> come
>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>
>>>>        To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at 
>>>> a
>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day
>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>> on
>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>> ago, but
>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>
>>>>        Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>> between
>>>> an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>> Some
>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are very 
>>>> far
>>>> apart philisophically.
>>>>
>>>>        Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands 
>>>> and
>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>        Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the
>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>
>>>>        While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>> something
>>>> and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>> where
>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>> defined
>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of 
>>>> possible
>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>
>>>>        The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is 
>>>> that
>>>> the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>> those
>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the 
>>>> mature
>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in 
>>>> the
>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of
>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - 
>>>> she is
>>>> free of all rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, 
>>>> everything
>>>> can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there 
>>>> any
>>>> other profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>> whatsoever
>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>> free,
>>>> at last!
>>>>
>>>>        Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where 
>>>> the
>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>
>>>>        A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>> usually
>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>> to
>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>> crafts
>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>> take
>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>> materials
>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>> you
>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to ask 
>>>> the
>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>> the
>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>> is
>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" will 
>>>> be,
>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>> just
>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it.  An
>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>> simple, and
>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>> and
>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>> discoveries.
>>>>
>>>>        One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of
>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>> on
>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and 
>>>> each
>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>> she has
>>>> made.
>>>>
>>>>        Lynda
>>>>
>>>>        Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>          From: Laurie Porter
>>>>          To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>          Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>          Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          Hi Folks:
>>>>
>>>>          I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>> wisconsin
>>>> who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. 
>>>> I
>>>> make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>> together
>>>> with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always
>>>> looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>
>>>>          so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an 
>>>> art
>>>> and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>> arts
>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>> going
>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>> bring
>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the visual
>>>> arts.
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>          Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>          To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>> info
>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>        Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>        Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>        http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>        To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>> info
>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>> URL:
>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140207/585678f3/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 8
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 20:54:43 -0500
>>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>> Message-ID: <35AF1D7D30354C14A11963A2A17E797B at Wellness>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real
>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy
>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>> that
>>>> five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt out
>>>> emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>> Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, and 
>>>> we
>>>> didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>> Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her example 
>>>> is
>>>> that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and she noticed 
>>>> that
>>>> she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter Relationship" and he was
>>>> reading "How to get the most out of your Band Saw."
>>>> To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>> book,"Drawing on
>>>> the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if one has time to
>>>> complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing things upside down.
>>>> Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym says 
>>>> to
>>>> "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel lines.
>>>>
>>>> OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>> Patty
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>  From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by Luann
>>>> Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a long 
>>>> time
>>>> ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much easier if I 
>>>> had
>>>> known these things about the differences between male and female 
>>>> brains.
>>>> And, my goodness, I would have been a much better teacher, too. I would 
>>>> have
>>>> a better understanding of my fellow human beings - but at least I do
>>>> understand a lot more about it now since reading this book. It was so
>>>> enlightening to me and I was telling my husband all about it as we 
>>>> would
>>>> ride along in the truck. One day he said to me, "I guess it is like 
>>>> this
>>>> conversation we are having right now in this truck."  This was his 
>>>> insight
>>>> as I was rapidly sharing so much information as he sat quietly
>>>> listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now I understand this conversation here 
>>>> in
>>>> this truck so much better."  We laughed.
>>>>
>>>>  Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the other. 
>>>> We
>>>> all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother taking an
>>>> afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and to creat a
>>>> picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. Then, it
>>>> continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each morning, one
>>>> summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew a blouse, 
>>>> skirt,
>>>> and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn from those around 
>>>> us,
>>>> and how lucky we were to have them in our life. What I do today, is an
>>>> homage to those women in my life so long ago. I celebrate them with 
>>>> every
>>>> stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I say "thank you" to them for
>>>> giving me the beginnings of who I am today, and who I am becoming with 
>>>> each
>>>> new day and each new idea I work with.
>>>>
>>>>  Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>    From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to
>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>    I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>> simultaneously. I
>>>> am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my 
>>>> left
>>>> brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is winning! 
>>>> (no put
>>>> down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>
>>>>    Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>    pece out
>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>      From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better 
>>>> get
>>>> back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>> place
>>>> for a discussion like this.
>>>>
>>>>      That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>> between
>>>> the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can 
>>>> take the
>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>> different
>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>> with
>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is a 
>>>> very
>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>> what is
>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>> is
>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very
>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be very
>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>
>>>>      I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva
>>>> College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, 
>>>> as I
>>>> have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.
>>>> Because of this background, I was very marketable for a good position. 
>>>> I
>>>> was able to create multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of
>>>> literature and art, as well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts,
>>>> printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a job, working in 
>>>> interdisciplinary
>>>> studies and doing so many projects with profs in other disciplines.  I 
>>>> was
>>>> very active in conferences on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an
>>>> European experience for art and literature students and we lived in 
>>>> Austria
>>>> every summer and then traveled to other countries. I even had an art
>>>> exhibition in Austria for my students every summer.  They worked so 
>>>> hard in
>>>> the studio and out on location every day, and at the end of the month 
>>>> they
>>>> had a show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and 
>>>> students
>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico
>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I am 
>>>> now
>>>> retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>
>>>>      OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a 
>>>> piece
>>>> done today!
>>>>      Lynda
>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>        From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>        To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>        Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading 
>>>> this
>>>> is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts 
>>>> of
>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on 
>>>> a
>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>> started
>>>> laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to 
>>>> day.
>>>> And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know 
>>>> and
>>>> follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am 
>>>> paid to
>>>> break the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>> done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        Ann Cunningham
>>>>        Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>        303 238 4760
>>>>        ann at acunningham.com
>>>>        http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>        http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          -------- Original Message --------
>>>>          Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>          From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>          Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>          To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>          <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>>          ?
>>>>          Hi Laurie,
>>>>          So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I 
>>>> am
>>>> like you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>> know
>>>> and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>> furiously
>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for 
>>>> the
>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>> _Vision
>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It 
>>>> is my
>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>> opens
>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>> done
>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>> working on
>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>> have a
>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>> and
>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>> for
>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>> when
>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>> be
>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas have 
>>>> come
>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>
>>>>          To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak 
>>>> at a
>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day
>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>> on
>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>> ago, but
>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>
>>>>          Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap
>>>> between an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that 
>>>> wide.
>>>> Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are 
>>>> very
>>>> far apart philisophically.
>>>>
>>>>          Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands 
>>>> and
>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>          Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the
>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>
>>>>          While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning
>>>> something and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no
>>>> notion of where the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has 
>>>> a
>>>> clearly defined path to the finished product. The artist has only some
>>>> inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>
>>>>          The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is
>>>> that the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate 
>>>> from
>>>> those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, 
>>>> the
>>>> mature artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may 
>>>> begin in
>>>> the early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years 
>>>> of
>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - 
>>>> she is
>>>> free of all rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, 
>>>> everything
>>>> can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there 
>>>> any
>>>> other profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>> whatsoever
>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>> free,
>>>> at last!
>>>>
>>>>          Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is 
>>>> where
>>>> the person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>
>>>>          A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>> usually
>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>> to
>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>> crafts
>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>> take
>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>> materials
>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>> you
>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to ask 
>>>> the
>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>> the
>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>> is
>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" will 
>>>> be,
>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>> just
>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it.  An
>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>> simple, and
>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>> and
>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>> discoveries.
>>>>
>>>>          One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of
>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>> on
>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and 
>>>> each
>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>> she has
>>>> made.
>>>>
>>>>          Lynda
>>>>
>>>>          Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>            From: Laurie Porter
>>>>            To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>            Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>            Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            Hi Folks:
>>>>
>>>>            I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>> wisconsin
>>>> who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. 
>>>> I
>>>> make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>> together
>>>> with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always
>>>> looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>
>>>>            so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between 
>>>> an
>>>> art and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are 
>>>> all
>>>> arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>> list
>>>> going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts 
>>>> to
>>>> bring blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the
>>>> visual arts.
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
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