[Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6

[Lynda Lambert]

Patty, your mother was one fantastic teacher!
OH, NO, what will you once you can no longer attend the private art 
showings? Such a loss!  l o l
Lynda
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
<artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6


> Linda-this was a fun spin you put on my experience...and when you 
> mentioned "weight", I heard Mom's words,"OK, you have shown me the 
> shape...but objects take up space and have weight! I don't see that 
> it-anchor it!"
> Patty
> PS A few weeks ago I was told that my dentist sold his practice. I've been 
> seeing  him for twenty years and my reaction was relief!!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 9:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 
> 6
>
>
>> Patty, this was so funny! There you are, a captive audience for a one 
>> person art show - right there in your dentist's office!  This could be a 
>> comic skit on SNL. But, I do understand what you are saying, seriously. 
>> If the artist would just spend some time getting to know those objects in 
>> a personal way, it would make a difference. She could just sit and hold 
>> them, feel their weight, explore the surfaces and how they move in space, 
>> and things like this.  The way you describe them makes it seem to me as 
>> though they don't have a sense of "touch" to them and as a viewer you 
>> cannot get that feeling from the paintings, so something is amiss.  The 
>> scary part is that this is really how she sees them herself.
>>
>> Lynda
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 7:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, 
>> Issue 6
>>
>>
>>> Linda, what you just expressed about understanding the object, whatever, 
>>> one is painting totally explains something to me. We have a local artist 
>>> who has many, many still life paintings and the subjects are interesting 
>>> and the colors dramatic and she is truly hailed around these parts. But 
>>> I have such trouble with her work-after the color, the subject and the 
>>> presentation. (and here it is, my personal perspective presented as 
>>> fact!) In my opinion, all of her objects seem to be floating-no sense of 
>>> dimension. Which goes back to the time spent learning to draw (her 
>>> shadowing is confusing and these are not abstracts) and, she may not 
>>> "understand" her subjects and relies on vision alone to define it...just 
>>> thinking out loud.
>>> Evry time I go to my dentist's for cleanings, the paintings around the 
>>> place are all different...oh, this artist is married to my dentist. So, 
>>> I am confronted with these large canvases and I just stare at one 
>>> painting at a time to try to "see" what she is doing and why it is that 
>>> it bothers me-grapes and wine bottles just don't float! OK...back to the 
>>> no rules thing, I love that, but...hmmm...I think I'll rethink 
>>> this.Maybe these do float... Maybe I don't need a reason to be 
>>> distracted by her lack of grounding things, in my view. Maybe I just 
>>> don't like her work!
>>>
>>> Yes, the energy here is nice-the clearer we can be about what we are 
>>> doing, want to do, etc...that clarity is quite fresh. But this applies 
>>> in all endeavors, of course. That is until one comes to the point that 
>>> there just aren't the words for what we think/feel.  the space and 
>>> energy around creating from the self are nebulous-like trying to tack 
>>> jello to a tree. But we just love trying, don't we? -loving the subjects 
>>> here has been very energizing.
>>> Patty
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 7:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, 
>>> Issue 6
>>>
>>>
>>>> As a drawing teacher, I understood that if my sighted students did not 
>>>> understand the object they were drawing by using all their senses, then 
>>>> they did not understand that thing at all. Because the sense of sight 
>>>> is so powerful and takes over all the other senses, a sighted person 
>>>> just takes a very quick glance at things and THINKS she understands it 
>>>> and she does not at all.  The drawing will be merely superficial and 
>>>> will not show the nuances of it, as it is in space, it's weight, etc. 
>>>> When blindfolded, the student begins to understand the object on deeper 
>>>> levels of understanding. What happens is that by relying only on sight, 
>>>> the student cannot really SEE a thing at all - but they think they can. 
>>>> So blindfolding the student had nothing to do with how a blind person 
>>>> experiences the thing, it had to do with really SEEING the thing. 
>>>> Seeing is something that is experienced over a very long period of 
>>>> time - it required that the person slow way down, and focus on the 
>>>> moment in time as they touch the object - and they are at the same 
>>>> time, learning how it really looks.  Sight alone cannot do this for us. 
>>>> This is very intersting to me because I had never been around a blind 
>>>> person in my life, with the exception of two different people whom I 
>>>> had only very limited time with. I would not have made the connection 
>>>> between sight loss and the drawing experience at that time at all. 
>>>> Only in hind sight, after my own sight loss, can I truly understand how 
>>>> important these lessons were.
>>>>
>>>> Lynda
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Laurie Porter" <free.spirit1 at live.com>
>>>> To: <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 6:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, 
>>>> Issue 6
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The idea that all children blind or sighted can draw pictures 
>>>>> fascinates me. I was legally blind all my life until 2003 when I lost 
>>>>> all my sight. both of my parents  were blind, and I recall them never 
>>>>> knowing how to draw anything However, fundimentally  all children, 
>>>>> blind or sighted learn basics like drawing a circle or square then 
>>>>> later other shapes. I might have been a better drawer  if I had access 
>>>>> to tactual shapes. I was encouraged to use my vision to do everything 
>>>>> but my parents lacked the ability to teach me how to process things 
>>>>> visually which comes to all children at a very early age. this is a 
>>>>> very interesting t,   -----Original Message----- 
>>>>> From: artists-making-art-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 2:03 PM
>>>>> To: artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6
>>>>>
>>>>> Send Artists-making-art mailing list submissions to
>>>>> artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Artists-making-art digest..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>>   1. Re: drawing the internal dialogue (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>   2. Re: drawing the internal dialogue (Sahar's Beaded Creations)
>>>>>   3. Re: drawing the internal dialogue (Patricia C. Estes)
>>>>>   4. Re: Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5 (Laurie Porter)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 08:56:25 -0500
>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>> Message-ID: <2E945A7FA30F4110A726835349F4841D at Lambert>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Patricia, you bring up the most fascinating things. This is another 
>>>>> one of those things that is so enjoyable to think about. Drawing!  We 
>>>>> do not need sight to draw, I am absolutely sure of that. In fact, in 
>>>>> many of my drawing courses, I had students draw blindfolded. They had 
>>>>> to feel the objects, then return to the easel to do their drawings. 
>>>>> They could walk over to feel it as often as they liked during the 
>>>>> process, but they were not permitted to have a physical "look" at it 
>>>>> with the eyes. The drawings they made were astounding - so full of 
>>>>> livingness and so magical. You are making me remember those things 
>>>>> that I had not thought of for a very long time - and this is great for 
>>>>> me because I am going to be a speaker at a conference on disabilities 
>>>>> and inclusion in March, and this is exactly what I needed to be 
>>>>> thinking about as I prep for that lecture.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone else has some examples of experiences for me, that I could 
>>>>> share with the audience, please let me know.  I want to really make my 
>>>>> audience understand that blind people have the same passions for art 
>>>>> and art making as anyone else. We just have to learn adaptive ways of 
>>>>> working, but we can do it, and we love to do it and it brings us great 
>>>>> joy.
>>>>>
>>>>> yes, I used Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain as a textbook for 
>>>>> Drawing courses at the college! I also used "The Natural Way to Draw" 
>>>>> by Nicolaides.  I have worked my way through both of these books for 
>>>>> years on end. Drawing is the core of everything we do as artists and 
>>>>> without a good foundation in drawing, it's difficult to move on - it 
>>>>> is the structure on which we build everything else no matter the 
>>>>> medium we work with. Drawing puts us in touch with the internal 
>>>>> dialogue and we become more aware and connected with the object we are 
>>>>> drawing.
>>>>>
>>>>> The interesting thing about drawing, to me, has always been that all 
>>>>> children seem to know how to draw by instinct. How does that "fit" in 
>>>>> your experience, Patricia?  I have never encountered a child who did 
>>>>> not know how to draw and make pictures - I have always thought we are 
>>>>> born with these abilities.  I think a child born blind would have this 
>>>>> same inclination, if provided with the tools and opportunities early 
>>>>> on, but that is a guess on my part. I would love to know more about 
>>>>> this by someone who has had the experience as a very small child 
>>>>> without sight. Drawing is more, far more, than the thing that is left 
>>>>> on the page after the person has made it. It is a whole body 
>>>>> experience - physical and spiritual experience, in my experiences. 
>>>>> So, it seems to me that no sight is needed to make drawings. I like to 
>>>>> say, about my own work, that the "thing that is on display on the 
>>>>> gallery wall is the residue left behind as I was making art."  It is 
>>>>> not the art itself, it is the tracks that show I was there.  The art 
>>>>> was what transpired within me as I worked on it and the piece in the 
>>>>> gallery is the evidence that I was there.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to say that without my extensive drawing background, I would 
>>>>> not be who I am today as a blind person. I have a small amount of 
>>>>> peripheral vision that is enough that I can detect movement. Those 
>>>>> movements are "gestures" and it is through the gestures around me that 
>>>>> I navigate the world and that I identify people and things. It is the 
>>>>> essence of everything - gesture. When I am making my art these days, 
>>>>> it is because I am accustomed to using gesture and can continue to do 
>>>>> that without sight. Touch is gesture, and that is how I understand 
>>>>> what I touch. I feel it's internal and external gesture.
>>>>>
>>>>> OH, that is so funny about your 5 year old's comment about using his 
>>>>> "girl brain."  This is what I found so fascinating when I was reading 
>>>>> this book, that the entire structure of the brain is very different in 
>>>>> males and females. Each individual part of the brain is different 
>>>>> between the sexes - so it is a physical as well as psychological 
>>>>> difference. She explored many different nuances that really helped me 
>>>>> as a blind person as well, as I was reading. It gave me new insight 
>>>>> into different aspects we encounter due to sight loss. I would highly 
>>>>> recommend it to anyone who has interest in learning more about how the 
>>>>> brain functions, and it is explored in a way that a non-science person 
>>>>> like me coulnd understand and enjoy.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is all certainly another aspect of  the discussion on difference 
>>>>> between art and crafts thought process and ways of "seeing."  Lynda
>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>  From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:54 PM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real 
>>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy 
>>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>>> that five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt 
>>>>> out emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>>  Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, and 
>>>>> we didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>>  Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>>> example is that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and 
>>>>> she noticed that she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter 
>>>>> Relationship" and he was reading "How to get the most out of your Band 
>>>>> Saw."
>>>>>  To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>>> book,"Drawing on the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if 
>>>>> one has time to complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing 
>>>>> things upside down.
>>>>>  Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym says 
>>>>> to "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel 
>>>>> lines.
>>>>>
>>>>>  OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>>  Patty
>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>    From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>>> Luann Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information 
>>>>> a long time ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much 
>>>>> easier if I had known these things about the differences between male 
>>>>> and female brains. And, my goodness, I would have been a much better 
>>>>> teacher, too. I would have a better understanding of my fellow human 
>>>>> beings - but at least I do understand a lot more about it now since 
>>>>> reading this book. It was so enlightening to me and I was telling my 
>>>>> husband all about it as we would ride along in the truck. One day he 
>>>>> said to me, "I guess it is like this conversation we are having right 
>>>>> now in this truck."  This was his insight as I was rapidly sharing so 
>>>>> much information as he sat quietly listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now 
>>>>> I understand this conversation here in this truck so much better."  We 
>>>>> laughed.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>>> other. We all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother 
>>>>> taking an afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and 
>>>>> to creat a picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. 
>>>>> Then, it continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each 
>>>>> morning, one summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew 
>>>>> a blouse, skirt, and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn 
>>>>> from those around us, and how lucky we were to have them in our life. 
>>>>> What I do today, is an homage to those women in my life so long ago. I 
>>>>> celebrate them with every stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I 
>>>>> say "thank you" to them for giving me the beginnings of who I am 
>>>>> today, and who I am becoming with each new day and each new idea I 
>>>>> work with.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>      From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>      I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>> simultaneously. I am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I 
>>>>> will admit, my left brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl 
>>>>> Brain is winning! (no put down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>>
>>>>>      Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>      pece out
>>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>        From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>        To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>        Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I 
>>>>> better get back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should 
>>>>> be a good place for a discussion like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>        That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>>> between the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a 
>>>>> crafter can take the exact same materials, but the mind that works 
>>>>> with them is quite different and the results are quite different. It's 
>>>>> really about "ideas" and "concepts" and what we are thinking about as 
>>>>> we work, and where we go with the materials in our process of working. 
>>>>> In Pittsburgh, PA there is a very fine museum/gallery called the 
>>>>> Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, what is done there, and shown 
>>>>> there is high art. So there is crafts and there is CRAFT, too.  There 
>>>>> is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very distinct 
>>>>> differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be very aware 
>>>>> of this, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>        I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>> College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, 
>>>>> as I have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English 
>>>>> Literature. Because of this background, I was very marketable for a 
>>>>> good position.  I was able to create multi-discipline courses - alway 
>>>>> a combination of literature and art, as well as studio courses in 
>>>>> painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a job, 
>>>>> working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so many projects with 
>>>>> profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in conferences on 
>>>>> interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for art 
>>>>> and literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>> traveled to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria 
>>>>> for my students every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and 
>>>>> out on location every day, and at the end of the month they had a 
>>>>> show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and students 
>>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico 
>>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I am 
>>>>> now retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>>
>>>>>        OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a 
>>>>> piece done today!
>>>>>        Lynda
>>>>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>          From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>          To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>          Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>          Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is 
>>>>> reading this is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there 
>>>>> are all sorts of shades in the continuum.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off 
>>>>> on a tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. 
>>>>> They started laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it 
>>>>> from day to day. And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a 
>>>>> good pilot you know and follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I 
>>>>> am an artist and I am paid to break the rules. No one wants to hear 
>>>>> from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          Ann Cunningham
>>>>>          Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>          303 238 4760
>>>>>          ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>          http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>          http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>            Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>            From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>            Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>            To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>            <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>            ?
>>>>>            Hi Laurie,
>>>>>            So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group 
>>>>> though, I am like you, I just came on to ask a question about 
>>>>> something I needed to know and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me 
>>>>> with my question.  I am furiously working right now (oops, split that 
>>>>> infinitive!) getting work done for the opening of a two-person 
>>>>> exhibition at a museum - the show is called _Vision and Revision:  Two 
>>>>> artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ It is my pottery and 
>>>>> mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It opens one 
>>>>> month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>>> done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>> working on the details. The show will appear at two locations this 
>>>>> year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the art 
>>>>> works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be teaching 
>>>>> in the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at 
>>>>> Geneva College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine 
>>>>> arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the 
>>>>> historical context of my work and where the ideas have come from when 
>>>>> creating it.
>>>>>
>>>>>            To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to 
>>>>> speak at a conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two 
>>>>> sessions, the day before we hang our show. So, I have those 
>>>>> presentations to be working on every day now, too.  I officially 
>>>>> retired from teaching 5 1/2 years ago, but I am still very much 
>>>>> involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>>
>>>>>            Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>>> between an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that 
>>>>> wide. Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most 
>>>>> things are very far apart philisophically.
>>>>>
>>>>>            Both work with the hands, and both love working with the 
>>>>> hands and most have done it all their life.
>>>>>            Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>            While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>> something and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no 
>>>>> notion of where the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter 
>>>>> has a clearly defined path to the finished product. The artist has 
>>>>> only some inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find them as she 
>>>>> works.
>>>>>
>>>>>            The other very big thing I see as a difference between them 
>>>>> is that the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate 
>>>>> from those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other 
>>>>> hand, the mature artist has learned that there are no rules at all. 
>>>>> They may begin in the early stages by learning techniques, but 
>>>>> eventually with the years of working, the light comes on in her brain 
>>>>> when she discovers one day - she is free of all rules when making art. 
>>>>> Everything can be challenged, everything can be changed, and 
>>>>> everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any other profession 
>>>>> in this world where there are no rules? It's the most exhilerating 
>>>>> feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules whatsoever for me. 
>>>>> Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, free, at 
>>>>> last!
>>>>>
>>>>>            Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is 
>>>>> where the person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>>            A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>>> usually content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then 
>>>>> moves on to learn something else and does that again with it. The 
>>>>> artist can take crafts materials (which is what you and I both do) and 
>>>>> techniques, and then take them far beyond because they will combine 
>>>>> their techniques and materials with the imagination.  If you can teach 
>>>>> it, it is usually a craft. If you cannot teach it, it is normally art. 
>>>>> Art can begin by learning some techniques, or using craft materials, 
>>>>> but then the person begins to ask the "what if" questions, and takes 
>>>>> lots of risks, failures, and bends in the road on the way to it 
>>>>> becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that is never satisfied 
>>>>> with just the learning of something new, but one that constantly 
>>>>> questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" will be, or 
>>>>> even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>> just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with 
>>>>> it.  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is 
>>>>> that simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on change and 
>>>>> making new discoveries and each work leads to other querstions and 
>>>>> more change and more new discoveries.
>>>>>
>>>>>            One can see the difference when you look at work in types 
>>>>> of environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table 
>>>>> full of things that are basically all the same while the other will 
>>>>> have work on display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where 
>>>>> they "fit" and each is very happy with where they are. They are 
>>>>> different animals, with different ideas, and different end results and 
>>>>> outcomes. Each one has decided their own path and each one is 
>>>>> comfortable with the decision she has made.
>>>>>
>>>>>            Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>            Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>              ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>              From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>              To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>              Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>              Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>              Hi Folks:
>>>>>
>>>>>              I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>>> wisconsin who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is 
>>>>> beadwork. I make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads 
>>>>> sewn together with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, 
>>>>> but I have always looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>
>>>>>              so, I have a basic question. What is the difference 
>>>>> between an art and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of 
>>>>> art  but are all arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you 
>>>>> for getting this list going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of 
>>>>> seeing in our efforts to bring blind people together who love to both 
>>>>> create and appreciate the visual arts.
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 09:41:10 -0600
>>>>> From: "Sahar's Beaded Creations" <sahar at inebraska.com>
>>>>> To: "'An exploration of art by and for blind persons'"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>> Message-ID: <024c01cf24e4$31086190$931924b0$@inebraska.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello, Lynda,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember drawing as a small child, and I really think I would have 
>>>>> been able to develop the skill had that skill been cultivated.  I 
>>>>> think that the teachers figured blind people couldn?t draw, so I don?t 
>>>>> remember them involving us in that after Kindergarten.  However, 
>>>>> that?s not why I wrote. I wrote because I wondered if you?d ever heard 
>>>>> of the totally blind Turkish painter, Asraf.  Apparently, who can 
>>>>> paint in vivid detail. I find that truly fascinating.  He might be 
>>>>> someone you might want to look up.  Take care.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sahar Husseini
>>>>>
>>>>> For hand-crafted, one-of-a-kind jewelry, please visit my Website at 
>>>>> <http://www.saharscreations.com> www.saharscreations.com Find me on 
>>>>> Facebook at  <http://www.facebook.com/saharscreations> 
>>>>> www.facebook.com/saharscreations And remember, "Obstacles don't have 
>>>>> to stop you.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it."
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Jordan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Artists-making-art 
>>>>> [mailto:artists-making-art-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
>>>>> Lambert
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 7:56 AM
>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Patricia, you bring up the most fascinating things. This is another 
>>>>> one of those things that is so enjoyable to think about. Drawing!  We 
>>>>> do not need sight to draw, I am absolutely sure of that. In fact, in 
>>>>> many of my drawing courses, I had students draw blindfolded. They had 
>>>>> to feel the objects, then return to the easel to do their drawings. 
>>>>> They could walk over to feel it as often as they liked during the 
>>>>> process, but they were not permitted to have a physical "look" at it 
>>>>> with the eyes. The drawings they made were astounding - so full of 
>>>>> livingness and so magical. You are making me remember those things 
>>>>> that I had not thought of for a very long time - and this is great for 
>>>>> me because I am going to be a speaker at a conference on disabilities 
>>>>> and inclusion in March, and this is exactly what I needed to be 
>>>>> thinking about as I prep for that lecture.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone else has some examples of experiences for me, that I could 
>>>>> share with the audience, please let me know.  I want to really make my 
>>>>> audience understand that blind people have the same passions for art 
>>>>> and art making as anyone else. We just have to learn adaptive ways of 
>>>>> working, but we can do it, and we love to do it and it brings us great 
>>>>> joy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> yes, I used Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain as a textbook for 
>>>>> Drawing courses at the college! I also used "The Natural Way to Draw" 
>>>>> by Nicolaides.  I have worked my way through both of these books for 
>>>>> years on end. Drawing is the core of everything we do as artists and 
>>>>> without a good foundation in drawing, it's difficult to move on - it 
>>>>> is the structure on which we build everything else no matter the 
>>>>> medium we work with. Drawing puts us in touch with the internal 
>>>>> dialogue and we become more aware and connected with the object we are 
>>>>> drawing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The interesting thing about drawing, to me, has always been that all 
>>>>> children seem to know how to draw by instinct. How does that "fit" in 
>>>>> your experience, Patricia?  I have never encountered a child who did 
>>>>> not know how to draw and make pictures - I have always thought we are 
>>>>> born with these abilities.  I think a child born blind would have this 
>>>>> same inclination, if provided with the tools and opportunities early 
>>>>> on, but that is a guess on my part. I would love to know more about 
>>>>> this by someone who has had the experience as a very small child 
>>>>> without sight. Drawing is more, far more, than the thing that is left 
>>>>> on the page after the person has made it. It is a whole body 
>>>>> experience - physical and spiritual experience, in my experiences. 
>>>>> So, it seems to me that no sight is needed to make drawings. I like to 
>>>>> say, about my own work, that the "thing that is on display on the 
>>>>> gallery wall is the residue left behind as I was making art."  It is 
>>>>> not the art itself, it is the tracks that show I was there.  The art 
>>>>> was what transpired within me as I worked on it and the piece in the 
>>>>> gallery is the evidence that I was there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to say that without my extensive drawing background, I would 
>>>>> not be who I am today as a blind person. I have a small amount of 
>>>>> peripheral vision that is enough that I can detect movement. Those 
>>>>> movements are "gestures" and it is through the gestures around me that 
>>>>> I navigate the world and that I identify people and things. It is the 
>>>>> essence of everything - gesture. When I am making my art these days, 
>>>>> it is because I am accustomed to using gesture and can continue to do 
>>>>> that without sight. Touch is gesture, and that is how I understand 
>>>>> what I touch. I feel it's internal and external gesture.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> OH, that is so funny about your 5 year old's comment about using his 
>>>>> "girl brain."  This is what I found so fascinating when I was reading 
>>>>> this book, that the entire structure of the brain is very different in 
>>>>> males and females. Each individual part of the brain is different 
>>>>> between the sexes - so it is a physical as well as psychological 
>>>>> difference. She explored many different nuances that really helped me 
>>>>> as a blind person as well, as I was reading. It gave me new insight 
>>>>> into different aspects we encounter due to sight loss. I would highly 
>>>>> recommend it to anyone who has interest in learning more about how the 
>>>>> brain functions, and it is explored in a way that a non-science person 
>>>>> like me coulnd understand and enjoy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is all certainly another aspect of  the discussion on difference 
>>>>> between art and crafts thought process and ways of "seeing."  Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Patricia C. Estes <mailto:pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:54 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real 
>>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy 
>>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>>> that five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt 
>>>>> out emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, and 
>>>>> we didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>>> example is that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and 
>>>>> she noticed that she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter 
>>>>> Relationship" and he was reading "How to get the most out of your Band 
>>>>> Saw."
>>>>>
>>>>> To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>>> book,"Drawing on the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if 
>>>>> one has time to complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing 
>>>>> things upside down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym says 
>>>>> to "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel 
>>>>> lines.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>>
>>>>> Patty
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Lynda Lambert <mailto:llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by Luann 
>>>>> Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a long 
>>>>> time ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much easier 
>>>>> if I had known these things about the differences between male and 
>>>>> female brains. And, my goodness, I would have been a much better 
>>>>> teacher, too. I would have a better understanding of my fellow human 
>>>>> beings - but at least I do understand a lot more about it now since 
>>>>> reading this book. It was so enlightening to me and I was telling my 
>>>>> husband all about it as we would ride along in the truck. One day he 
>>>>> said to me, "I guess it is like this conversation we are having right 
>>>>> now in this truck."  This was his insight as I was rapidly sharing so 
>>>>> much information as he sat quietly listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now 
>>>>> I understand this conversation here in this truck so much better."  We 
>>>>> laughed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the other. 
>>>>> We all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother taking 
>>>>> an afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and to 
>>>>> creat a picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. 
>>>>> Then, it continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each 
>>>>> morning, one summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew 
>>>>> a blouse, skirt, and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn 
>>>>> from those around us, and how lucky we were to have them in our life. 
>>>>> What I do today, is an homage to those women in my life so long ago. I 
>>>>> celebrate them with every stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I 
>>>>> say "thank you" to them for giving me the beginnings of who I am 
>>>>> today, and who I am becoming with each new day and each new idea I 
>>>>> work with.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400 
>>>>> <http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1> 
>>>>> &sr=1-1
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Patricia C. Estes <mailto:pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter simultaneously. 
>>>>> I am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my 
>>>>> left brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is 
>>>>> winning! (no put down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>
>>>>> pece out
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Lynda Lambert <mailto:llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get 
>>>>> back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>>> place for a discussion like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>>> the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can 
>>>>> take the exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is 
>>>>> quite different and the results are quite different. It's really about 
>>>>> "ideas" and "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and 
>>>>> where we go with the materials in our process of working.  In 
>>>>> Pittsburgh, PA there is a very fine museum/gallery called the Society 
>>>>> of Contemporary Crafts - now, what is done there, and shown there is 
>>>>> high art. So there is crafts and there is CRAFT, too.  There is the 
>>>>> "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." very distinct differences 
>>>>> between them - and as a sculptor you would be very aware of this, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>> College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, 
>>>>> as I have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English 
>>>>> Literature. Because of this background, I was very marketable for a 
>>>>> good position. I was able to create multi-discipline courses - alway a 
>>>>> combination of literature and art, as well as studio courses in 
>>>>> painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a job, 
>>>>> working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so many projects with 
>>>>> profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in conferences on 
>>>>> interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for art 
>>>>> and literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>> traveled to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria 
>>>>> for my students every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and 
>>>>> out on location every day, and at the end of the month they had a 
>>>>> show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and students 
>>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico 
>>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I am 
>>>>> now retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>>> done today!
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Ann at acunningham.com <mailto:Ann at acunningham.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this is 
>>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of 
>>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a 
>>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>>> started laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from 
>>>>> day to day. And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good 
>>>>> pilot you know and follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am 
>>>>> an artist and I am paid to break the rules. No one wants to hear from 
>>>>> me if it has already been done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ann Cunningham
>>>>>
>>>>> Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>
>>>>> 303 238 4760
>>>>>
>>>>> ann at acunningham.com <mailto:ann at acunningham.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net 
>>>>> <mailto:llambert at zoominternet.net> >
>>>>> Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org> 
>>>>>  >
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>>
>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am like 
>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to know 
>>>>> and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>> furiously working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting 
>>>>> work done for the opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the 
>>>>> show is called _Vision and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, 
>>>>> not limited vision_ It is my pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and 
>>>>> a legally blind painter. It opens one month from today, and if I stop 
>>>>> to think about what else has to be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I 
>>>>> won't do that, but just will keep on working on the details. The show 
>>>>> will appear at two locations this year and will have a video that 
>>>>> plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, and 
>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>> for the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I 
>>>>> taught when I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I 
>>>>> retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical context of my work and 
>>>>> where the ideas have come from when creating it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a 
>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day 
>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>> on every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>> ago, but I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between an 
>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. Some 
>>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are very 
>>>>> far apart philisophically.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>>> and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>> where the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a 
>>>>> clearly defined path to the finished product. The artist has only some 
>>>>> inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>> the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>> those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, 
>>>>> the mature artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They 
>>>>> may begin in the early stages by learning techniques, but eventually 
>>>>> with the years of working, the light comes on in her brain when she 
>>>>> discovers one day - she is free of all rules when making art. 
>>>>> Everything can be challenged, everything can be changed, and 
>>>>> everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any other profession 
>>>>> in this world where there are no rules? It's the most exhilerating 
>>>>> feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules whatsoever for me. 
>>>>> Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, free, at 
>>>>> last!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the 
>>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually 
>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>> to learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can 
>>>>> take crafts materials (which is what you and I both do) and 
>>>>> techniques, and then take them far beyond because they will combine 
>>>>> their techniques and materials with the imagination.  If you can teach 
>>>>> it, it is usually a craft. If you cannot teach it, it is normally art. 
>>>>> Art can begin by learning some techniques, or using craft materials, 
>>>>> but then the person begins to ask the "what if" questions, and takes 
>>>>> lots of risks, failures, and bends in the road on the way to it 
>>>>> becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that is never satisfied 
>>>>> with just the learning of something new, but one that constantly 
>>>>> questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" will be, or 
>>>>> even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>> just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with 
>>>>> it. An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is 
>>>>> that simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on change and 
>>>>> making new discoveries and each work leads to other querstions and 
>>>>> more change and more new discoveries.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of 
>>>>> environments. One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of 
>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>> on display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>> and each is very happy with where they are. They are different 
>>>>> animals, with different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. 
>>>>> Each one has decided their own path and each one is comfortable with 
>>>>> the decision she has made.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Laurie Porter <mailto:free.spirit1 at live.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> <mailto:Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin who is 
>>>>> a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I make 
>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>>> with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have 
>>>>> always looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art and 
>>>>> a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>> arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>>> list going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our 
>>>>> efforts to bring blind people together who love to both create and 
>>>>> appreciate the visual arts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _____
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>  _____
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 11:28:45 -0500
>>>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>> Message-ID: <FBEE8CE951524EB0A97347CAF39B9E92 at Wellness>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Good morning,
>>>>> Linda, I am glad to be of some "help" in your preparation!! I guess I 
>>>>> needed a Job!
>>>>> The discussions have been intriguing...in the sense that I am being 
>>>>> reminded of things I already know. Everyone's input has been fun!
>>>>> About drawing: APH has a tactile board for raised line drawings/math 
>>>>> assignments, etc. This is what I would put in the hands of a blind 
>>>>> child-the stylus can be used for lines and a type of "shading." And of 
>>>>> course, it would also be useful for a blind child to do the same thing 
>>>>> as a sighted child, as you mentioned: feel the object and draw it.
>>>>> (OK, get ready, I digress a bit: This reminds me of the work I have 
>>>>> done as an Infant Massage Instructor-there are certain, simple strokes 
>>>>> that we teach the parents and the result is calming, of course 
>>>>> ...well, unless said baby being massaged is done!... but one of the 
>>>>> many objectives of this massage stroke is "to help the infant to 
>>>>> organize his/her world." In this case:"These things are part of 
>>>>> me...legs, arms...and this is me here and that is someone else over 
>>>>> there." At which point the baby realizes that they are getting some 
>>>>> undivided attention and they get all excited! And with a blind child, 
>>>>> especially, or the newly blinded, this art exercise in observing one's 
>>>>> world would be really helpful in sorting out, organizing and 
>>>>> internalizing. But it would be helpful for *anyone* to do, and for the 
>>>>> same reasons!)
>>>>> I like that your intent is not to try to get students to experience 
>>>>> what life is like as a blind person!! It is just an art play!
>>>>>
>>>>> OK...about drawing/sketching, I think that is as essential as learning 
>>>>> the basics of music before playing in an orchestra. As much as we'd 
>>>>> love to skip right over the practice sessions, that just is no other 
>>>>> way. And I do think that there are "work arounds" for blind artists of 
>>>>> any age who have never seen, to learn perspective and to share it. 
>>>>> (Ann would know lots about this). Because of my background in 
>>>>> classical sketching with my mom, I could branch out to design and 
>>>>> suggest/gesture the images...like fashion design and even like 
>>>>> impressionistic painting. Reducing the "story" to the most interesting 
>>>>> lines/colors. (which will be different for each artist and viewer).
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes-
>>>>> Patty
>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>  From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>  Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 8:56 AM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Patricia, you bring up the most fascinating things. This is another 
>>>>> one of those things that is so enjoyable to think about. Drawing!  We 
>>>>> do not need sight to draw, I am absolutely sure of that. In fact, in 
>>>>> many of my drawing courses, I had students draw blindfolded. They had 
>>>>> to feel the objects, then return to the easel to do their drawings. 
>>>>> They could walk over to feel it as often as they liked during the 
>>>>> process, but they were not permitted to have a physical "look" at it 
>>>>> with the eyes. The drawings they made were astounding - so full of 
>>>>> livingness and so magical. You are making me remember those things 
>>>>> that I had not thought of for a very long time - and this is great for 
>>>>> me because I am going to be a speaker at a conference on disabilities 
>>>>> and inclusion in March, and this is exactly what I needed to be 
>>>>> thinking about as I prep for that lecture.
>>>>>
>>>>>  If anyone else has some examples of experiences for me, that I could 
>>>>> share with the audience, please let me know.  I want to really make my 
>>>>> audience understand that blind people have the same passions for art 
>>>>> and art making as anyone else. We just have to learn adaptive ways of 
>>>>> working, but we can do it, and we love to do it and it brings us great 
>>>>> joy.
>>>>>
>>>>>  yes, I used Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain as a textbook 
>>>>> for Drawing courses at the college! I also used "The Natural Way to 
>>>>> Draw" by Nicolaides.  I have worked my way through both of these books 
>>>>> for years on end. Drawing is the core of everything we do as artists 
>>>>> and without a good foundation in drawing, it's difficult to move on - 
>>>>> it is the structure on which we build everything else no matter the 
>>>>> medium we work with. Drawing puts us in touch with the internal 
>>>>> dialogue and we become more aware and connected with the object we are 
>>>>> drawing.
>>>>>
>>>>>  The interesting thing about drawing, to me, has always been that all 
>>>>> children seem to know how to draw by instinct. How does that "fit" in 
>>>>> your experience, Patricia?  I have never encountered a child who did 
>>>>> not know how to draw and make pictures - I have always thought we are 
>>>>> born with these abilities.  I think a child born blind would have this 
>>>>> same inclination, if provided with the tools and opportunities early 
>>>>> on, but that is a guess on my part. I would love to know more about 
>>>>> this by someone who has had the experience as a very small child 
>>>>> without sight. Drawing is more, far more, than the thing that is left 
>>>>> on the page after the person has made it. It is a whole body 
>>>>> experience - physical and spiritual experience, in my experiences. 
>>>>> So, it seems to me that no sight is needed to make drawings. I like to 
>>>>> say, about my own work, that the "thing that is on display on the 
>>>>> gallery wall is the residue left behind as I was making art."  It is 
>>>>> not the art itself, it is the tracks that show I was there.  The art 
>>>>> was what transpired within me as I worked on it and the piece in the 
>>>>> gallery is the evidence that I was there.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I have to say that without my extensive drawing background, I would 
>>>>> not be who I am today as a blind person. I have a small amount of 
>>>>> peripheral vision that is enough that I can detect movement. Those 
>>>>> movements are "gestures" and it is through the gestures around me that 
>>>>> I navigate the world and that I identify people and things. It is the 
>>>>> essence of everything - gesture. When I am making my art these days, 
>>>>> it is because I am accustomed to using gesture and can continue to do 
>>>>> that without sight. Touch is gesture, and that is how I understand 
>>>>> what I touch. I feel it's internal and external gesture.
>>>>>
>>>>>  OH, that is so funny about your 5 year old's comment about using his 
>>>>> "girl brain."  This is what I found so fascinating when I was reading 
>>>>> this book, that the entire structure of the brain is very different in 
>>>>> males and females. Each individual part of the brain is different 
>>>>> between the sexes - so it is a physical as well as psychological 
>>>>> difference. She explored many different nuances that really helped me 
>>>>> as a blind person as well, as I was reading. It gave me new insight 
>>>>> into different aspects we encounter due to sight loss. I would highly 
>>>>> recommend it to anyone who has interest in learning more about how the 
>>>>> brain functions, and it is explored in a way that a non-science person 
>>>>> like me coulnd understand and enjoy.
>>>>>
>>>>>  This is all certainly another aspect of  the discussion on difference 
>>>>> between art and crafts thought process and ways of "seeing."  Lynda
>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>    From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:54 PM
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first 
>>>>> real understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and 
>>>>> energy medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or 
>>>>> other that five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to 
>>>>> blurt out emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>>    Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, 
>>>>> and we didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>>    Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>>> example is that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and 
>>>>> she noticed that she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter 
>>>>> Relationship" and he was reading "How to get the most out of your Band 
>>>>> Saw."
>>>>>    To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>>> book,"Drawing on the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if 
>>>>> one has time to complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing 
>>>>> things upside down.
>>>>>    Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym 
>>>>> says to "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel 
>>>>> lines.
>>>>>
>>>>>    OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>>    Patty
>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>      From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>>> Luann Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information 
>>>>> a long time ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much 
>>>>> easier if I had known these things about the differences between male 
>>>>> and female brains. And, my goodness, I would have been a much better 
>>>>> teacher, too. I would have a better understanding of my fellow human 
>>>>> beings - but at least I do understand a lot more about it now since 
>>>>> reading this book. It was so enlightening to me and I was telling my 
>>>>> husband all about it as we would ride along in the truck. One day he 
>>>>> said to me, "I guess it is like this conversation we are having right 
>>>>> now in this truck."  This was his insight as I was rapidly sharing so 
>>>>> much information as he sat quietly listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now 
>>>>> I understand this conversation here in this truck so much better."  We 
>>>>> laughed.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>>> other. We all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother 
>>>>> taking an afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and 
>>>>> to creat a picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. 
>>>>> Then, it continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each 
>>>>> morning, one summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew 
>>>>> a blouse, skirt, and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn 
>>>>> from those around us, and how lucky we were to have them in our life. 
>>>>> What I do today, is an homage to those women in my life so long ago. I 
>>>>> celebrate them with  every stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I 
>>>>> say "thank you" to them for giving me the beginnings of who I am 
>>>>> today, and who I am becoming with each new day and each new idea I 
>>>>> work with.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>        From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>        To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>        Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time 
>>>>> to articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>        I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>> simultaneously. I am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I 
>>>>> will admit, my left brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl 
>>>>> Brain is winning! (no put down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>>
>>>>>        Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>        pece out
>>>>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>          From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>          To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>          Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>          Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I 
>>>>> better get back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should 
>>>>> be a good place for a discussion like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>          That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>>> between the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a 
>>>>> crafter can take the exact same materials, but the mind that works 
>>>>> with them is quite different and the results are quite different. It's 
>>>>> really about "ideas" and "concepts" and what we are thinking about as 
>>>>> we work, and where we go with the materials in our process of working. 
>>>>> In Pittsburgh, PA there is a very fine museum/gallery called the 
>>>>> Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, what is done there, and shown 
>>>>> there is high art. So there is crafts and there is CRAFT, too.  There 
>>>>> is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very distinct 
>>>>> differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be very aware 
>>>>> of this, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>          I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college 
>>>>> (Geneva College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across 
>>>>> disciplines, as I have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in 
>>>>> English Literature. Because of this background, I was very marketable 
>>>>> for a good position.  I was able to create multi-discipline courses - 
>>>>> alway a combination of literature and art, as well as studio courses 
>>>>> in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a 
>>>>> job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so many projects 
>>>>> with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in conferences on 
>>>>> interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for art 
>>>>> and literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>> traveled to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria 
>>>>> for my students every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and 
>>>>> out on location every day, and at the end of the month they had a 
>>>>> show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and students 
>>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico 
>>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I am 
>>>>> now retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>>
>>>>>          OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a 
>>>>> piece done today!
>>>>>          Lynda
>>>>>            ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>            From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>            To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>            Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>            Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is 
>>>>> reading this is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there 
>>>>> are all sorts of shades in the continuum.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went 
>>>>> off on a tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather 
>>>>> randomly. They started laughing and saying something akin to how do 
>>>>> you make it from day to day. And I said you guys are pilots and for 
>>>>> you to be a good pilot you know and follow rules. That is what they 
>>>>> pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid to break the rules. No one 
>>>>> wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            Ann Cunningham
>>>>>            Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>            303 238 4760
>>>>>            ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>            http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>            http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>              -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>              Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new 
>>>>> member
>>>>>              From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>              Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>              To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>              <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>              ?
>>>>>              Hi Laurie,
>>>>>              So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group 
>>>>> though, I am like you, I just came on to ask a question about 
>>>>> something I needed to know and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me 
>>>>> with my question.  I am furiously working right now (oops, split that 
>>>>> infinitive!) getting work done for the opening of a two-person 
>>>>> exhibition at a museum - the show is called _Vision and Revision:  Two 
>>>>> artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ It is my pottery and 
>>>>> mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It opens one 
>>>>> month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>>> done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>> working on the details. The show will appear at two locations this 
>>>>> year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the art 
>>>>> works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be teaching 
>>>>> in the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at 
>>>>> Geneva College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine 
>>>>> arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the 
>>>>> historical context of my work and where the ideas have come from when 
>>>>> creating it.
>>>>>
>>>>>              To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to 
>>>>> speak at a conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two 
>>>>> sessions, the day before we hang our show. So, I have those 
>>>>> presentations to be working on every day now, too.  I officially 
>>>>> retired from teaching 5 1/2 years ago, but I am still very much 
>>>>> involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>>
>>>>>              Here is my response to the question you have asked. The 
>>>>> gap between an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is 
>>>>> that wide. Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most 
>>>>> things are very far apart philisophically.
>>>>>
>>>>>              Both work with the hands, and both love working with the 
>>>>> hands and most have done it all their life.
>>>>>              Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and 
>>>>> the satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>              While the crafter will usually be satisfied with 
>>>>> beginning something and knowing where the end will be, the artist 
>>>>> begins with no notion of where the end will be or even if it will be. 
>>>>> the crafter has a clearly defined path to the finished product. The 
>>>>> artist has only some inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find 
>>>>> them as she works.
>>>>>
>>>>>              The other very big thing I see as a difference between 
>>>>> them is that the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever 
>>>>> deviate from those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the 
>>>>> other hand, the mature artist has learned that there are no rules at 
>>>>> all. They may begin in the early stages by learning techniques, but 
>>>>> eventually with the years of working, the light comes on in her brain 
>>>>> when she discovers one day - she is free of all rules when making art. 
>>>>> Everything can be challenged, everything can be changed, and 
>>>>> everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any other profession 
>>>>> in this world where there are no rules? It's the most exhilerating 
>>>>> feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules whatsoever for me. 
>>>>> Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, free, at 
>>>>> last!
>>>>>
>>>>>              Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is 
>>>>> where the person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>>              A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>>> usually content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then 
>>>>> moves on to learn something else and does that again with it. The 
>>>>> artist can take crafts materials (which is what you and I both do) and 
>>>>> techniques, and then take them far beyond because they will combine 
>>>>> their techniques and materials with the imagination.  If you can teach 
>>>>> it, it is usually a craft. If you cannot teach it, it is normally art. 
>>>>> Art can begin by learning some techniques, or using craft materials, 
>>>>> but then the person begins to ask the "what if" questions, and takes 
>>>>> lots of risks, failures, and bends in the road on the way to it 
>>>>> becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that is never satisfied 
>>>>> with just the learning of something new, but one that constantly 
>>>>> questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" will be, or 
>>>>> even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>> just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with 
>>>>> it.  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is 
>>>>> that simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on change and 
>>>>> making new discoveries and each work leads to other querstions and 
>>>>> more change and more new discoveries.
>>>>>
>>>>>              One can see the difference when you look at work in types 
>>>>> of environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table 
>>>>> full of things that are basically all the same while the other will 
>>>>> have work on display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where 
>>>>> they "fit" and each is very happy with where they are. They are 
>>>>> different animals, with different ideas, and different end results and 
>>>>> outcomes. Each one has decided their own path and each one is 
>>>>> comfortable with the decision she has made.
>>>>>
>>>>>              Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>              Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>                From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>                To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>                Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>                Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                Hi Folks:
>>>>>
>>>>>                I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>>> wisconsin who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is 
>>>>> beadwork. I make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads 
>>>>> sewn together with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, 
>>>>> but I have always looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>
>>>>>                so, I have a basic question. What is the difference 
>>>>> between an art and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of 
>>>>> art but are all arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you 
>>>>> for getting this list going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of 
>>>>> seeing in our efforts to bring blind people together who love to both 
>>>>> create and appreciate the visual arts.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>                _______________________________________________
>>>>>                Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>                Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>                To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>> account info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>              _______________________________________________
>>>>>              Artists-making-art mailing list
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>>>>>
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>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 14:03:46 -0600
>>>>> From: Laurie Porter <free.spirit1 at live.com>
>>>>> To: <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16,
>>>>> Issue 5
>>>>> Message-ID: <BLU177-DS22E118870BD6FD8E1EEB3AD960 at phx.gbl>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda:
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks so much for this definition of the difference between art and 
>>>>> craft.
>>>>> I think I am now truly where I belong, and given this explanation, I 
>>>>> know
>>>>> now why I have never been satisfied with just finishing a crafting 
>>>>> project.
>>>>> I've always found it to be decidedly limiting in imagination, 
>>>>> creativity and
>>>>> origionality. .
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been so impressed with the messages I've read on this  list so 
>>>>> far.
>>>>> It sounds like there is some wonderful energy on this listand am 
>>>>> looking
>>>>> forward  read ing more.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>> From: artists-making-art-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 6:00 AM
>>>>> To: artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5
>>>>>
>>>>> Send Artists-making-art mailing list submissions to
>>>>> artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>> artists-making-art-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>> artists-making-art-owner at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Artists-making-art digest..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>>   1. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>   2. Re: arts or crafts new member (Ann at acunningham.com)
>>>>>   3. Re: arts or crafts new member (Jewel)
>>>>>   4. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>   5. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>   6. Re: arts or crafts new member (Patricia C. Estes)
>>>>>   7. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>   8. Re: arts or crafts new member (Patricia C. Estes)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 08:03:18 -0500
>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>> Message-ID: <6FA5C73038C44B4D9FE3E40F647EF6C7 at Lambert>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am like 
>>>>> you,
>>>>> I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to know and 
>>>>> was so
>>>>> glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am furiously 
>>>>> working
>>>>> right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for the 
>>>>> opening
>>>>> of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called _Vision 
>>>>> and
>>>>> Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It is 
>>>>> my
>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>> opens
>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>>> done
>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>> working on
>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>> have a
>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>> for
>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>>> when
>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>> be
>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>> have come
>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>
>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a 
>>>>> conference
>>>>> at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day before we 
>>>>> hang
>>>>> our show. So, I have those presentations to be working on every day 
>>>>> now,
>>>>> too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years ago, but I am 
>>>>> still
>>>>> very much involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between an
>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. Some 
>>>>> basic
>>>>> things may be similar between the two, but most things are very far 
>>>>> apart
>>>>> philisophically.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>> most have
>>>>> done it all their life.
>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>> satisfaction of
>>>>> the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>>> and
>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>> where the
>>>>> end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly defined 
>>>>> path
>>>>> to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of possible
>>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>> the
>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from those 
>>>>> rules,
>>>>> as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the mature 
>>>>> artist
>>>>> has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in the 
>>>>> early
>>>>> stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of 
>>>>> working, the
>>>>> light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - she is free 
>>>>> of all
>>>>> rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, everything can be
>>>>> changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any 
>>>>> other
>>>>> profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>> free,
>>>>> at last!
>>>>>
>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the 
>>>>> person
>>>>> eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually 
>>>>> content to
>>>>> learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on to learn
>>>>> something else and does that again with it. The artist can take crafts
>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>> take
>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>> materials
>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>> you
>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>> ask the
>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>> is
>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>> will be,
>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>> just
>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>> An
>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>> simple, and
>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>>> and
>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>
>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of 
>>>>> environments.
>>>>> One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of things that 
>>>>> are
>>>>> basically all the same while the other will have work  on display in a
>>>>> gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and each is very 
>>>>> happy
>>>>> with where they are. They are different animals, with different ideas, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> different end results and outcomes. Each one has decided their own 
>>>>> path and
>>>>> each one is comfortable with the decision she has made.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>  From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>  To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>  Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Folks:
>>>>>
>>>>>  I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin who 
>>>>> is a
>>>>> fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I make
>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>>> with
>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>>> looked
>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>
>>>>>  so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art 
>>>>> and a
>>>>> craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all arts
>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>>> going
>>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>>> bring
>>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the 
>>>>> visual
>>>>> arts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 07:08:33 -0700
>>>>> From: <Ann at acunningham.com>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <20140207070833.c623b2ae39646abf92d04cdf9b47d475.1411573672.wbe at email06.secureserver.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140207/8ed00789/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 11:23:35 -0500
>>>>> From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <CABORmNtm3Wu6C=MnMC68NHdt1eSgDN2T1hyq7dvCWkbROEPn8A at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>
>>>>> I absolutely loved this explanation of arts versus crafts. I was also
>>>>> wondering the difference, so this really makes it clear to me. I do
>>>>> polymer clay. While I start with an expectation that it will be some
>>>>> sort of elephant or a horse or whatever, who knows what twists and
>>>>> turns will happen along the way. By the way, I'm currently working on
>>>>> a Harry Potter style house elf holding a tray that can hold business
>>>>> ccards. The house elf is done, but the tray still needs to be
>>>>> finished.
>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/14, Ann at acunningham.com <Ann at acunningham.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of 
>>>>>> shades in
>>>>>> the continuum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a 
>>>>>> tangent
>>>>>> tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They started
>>>>>> laughing
>>>>>> and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to day. And 
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know and 
>>>>>> follow
>>>>>> rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid to
>>>>>> break
>>>>>> the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ann Cunningham
>>>>>> Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>> 303 238 4760
>>>>>> ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>> http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>> http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called
>>>>>>> _Vision and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited
>>>>>>> vision_  It is my pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> painter. It opens one month from today, and if I stop to think about 
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> else has to be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but 
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> will keep on working on the details. The show will appear at two
>>>>>>> locations
>>>>>>> this year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the 
>>>>>>> art
>>>>>>> works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be teaching 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at 
>>>>>>> Geneva
>>>>>>> College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine arts 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical 
>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>> of my work and where the ideas have come from when creating it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be 
>>>>>>> working on
>>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>>>> ago,
>>>>>>> but I am still very much involved in everything but being in the
>>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between 
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are 
>>>>>>> very far
>>>>>>> apart philisophically.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>>> satisfaction
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>>>>> defined
>>>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of
>>>>>>> possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the
>>>>>>> mature
>>>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin 
>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day
>>>>>>> - she is free of all rules when making art. Everything can be 
>>>>>>> challenged,
>>>>>>> everything can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the 
>>>>>>> artist.
>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>> there any other profession in this world where there are no rules? 
>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>> the most exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no 
>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>> whatsoever for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. 
>>>>>>> Free,
>>>>>>> free, free, at last!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually 
>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>> to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on to 
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>>> materials
>>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. 
>>>>>>> If you
>>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>> the "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and 
>>>>>>> bends in
>>>>>>> the road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be, or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I 
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with 
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that
>>>>>>> simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making 
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> discoveries and each work leads to other querstions and more change 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> more new discoveries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have 
>>>>>>> work on
>>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> each is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, 
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one 
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>> has made.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>>> To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a blind person from wisconsin who 
>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>> fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>>>>> together
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always
>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art 
>>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>>> craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>>>>> arts
>>>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>> going as it is something I've always dreamed of seeing in our 
>>>>>>>> efforts to
>>>>>>>> bring blind people together who love to both create and appreciate 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> visual arts.
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 11:44:39 -0500
>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>> Message-ID: <00EE5DF7276148B7B8D3EE072C8258A0 at Lambert>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get 
>>>>> back to
>>>>> the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good place for 
>>>>> a
>>>>> discussion like this.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>>> the
>>>>> two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can take 
>>>>> the
>>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>>> different
>>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>>> with
>>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is a 
>>>>> very
>>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>>> what is
>>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>>> is
>>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." 
>>>>> very
>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>> very
>>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>> College, in
>>>>> western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I have 
>>>>> my MFA
>>>>> in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.  Because of 
>>>>> this
>>>>> background, I was very marketable for a good position.  I was able to 
>>>>> create
>>>>> multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of literature and art, 
>>>>> as
>>>>> well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. 
>>>>> It was
>>>>> a dream of a job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so 
>>>>> many
>>>>> projects with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in 
>>>>> conferences
>>>>> on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for 
>>>>> art and
>>>>> literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>> traveled
>>>>> to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria for my 
>>>>> students
>>>>> every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and out on location 
>>>>> every
>>>>> day, and at the end of the month they had a show - so much fun.  I 
>>>>> also did
>>>>> this with Puerto Rico, and students came to PR with me each spring as 
>>>>> part
>>>>> of their course in Puerto Rico Culture - which I have continued to 
>>>>> visit
>>>>> every March even though I am now retired. It bacame how we spent our 
>>>>> spring
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>>> done
>>>>> today!
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>  From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>>> is
>>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of
>>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a 
>>>>> tangent
>>>>> tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They started 
>>>>> laughing
>>>>> and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to day. And I 
>>>>> said
>>>>> you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know and follow
>>>>> rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid to 
>>>>> break
>>>>> the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Ann Cunningham
>>>>>  Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>  303 238 4760
>>>>>  ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>  http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>  http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>    From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>    Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>    To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>    <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>    ?
>>>>>    Hi Laurie,
>>>>>    So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>> like
>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to know 
>>>>> and
>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>> furiously
>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>>> _Vision
>>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It 
>>>>> is my
>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>> opens
>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>>> done
>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>> working on
>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>> have a
>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>> for
>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>>> when
>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>> be
>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>> have come
>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>
>>>>>    To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day
>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>> on
>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>> ago, but
>>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between 
>>>>> an
>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. Some 
>>>>> basic
>>>>> things may be similar between the two, but most things are very far 
>>>>> apart
>>>>> philisophically.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>> most
>>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>>    Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>> satisfaction
>>>>> of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>    While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>> something and
>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>> where the
>>>>> end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly defined 
>>>>> path
>>>>> to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of possible
>>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>
>>>>>    The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>> the
>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from those 
>>>>> rules,
>>>>> as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the mature 
>>>>> artist
>>>>> has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in the 
>>>>> early
>>>>> stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of 
>>>>> working, the
>>>>> light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - she is free 
>>>>> of all
>>>>> rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, everything can be
>>>>> changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any 
>>>>> other
>>>>> profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>> free,
>>>>> at last!
>>>>>
>>>>>    Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the
>>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>>    A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually
>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>> to
>>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>> crafts
>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>> take
>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>> materials
>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>> you
>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>> ask the
>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>> is
>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>> will be,
>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>> just
>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>> An
>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>> simple, and
>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>>> and
>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>
>>>>>    One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>> of
>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>> on
>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and 
>>>>> each
>>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>> she has
>>>>> made.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>    Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>      From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>      To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>      Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>      Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Hi Folks:
>>>>>
>>>>>      I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin 
>>>>> who is
>>>>> a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I make
>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>>> with
>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>>> looked
>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>
>>>>>      so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an 
>>>>> art and
>>>>> a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>> arts
>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>>> going
>>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>>> bring
>>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the 
>>>>> visual
>>>>> arts.
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140207/4e3190f0/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 5
>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 11:47:54 -0500
>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>> Message-ID: <687BD2626016484AB96E97E715BA11BD at Lambert>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, Jewell, the material does not matter - we can go any way we want 
>>>>> to
>>>>> with it.  It is the ideas we work with that determine what will happen 
>>>>> along
>>>>> the way, plus allowing the medium to lead us - finding that "life of 
>>>>> it's
>>>>> own" that is there for us - a surprise or two along the way. Your 
>>>>> project
>>>>> sounds wonderful.  Lynda
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Jewel" <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:23 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I absolutely loved this explanation of arts versus crafts. I was also
>>>>>> wondering the difference, so this really makes it clear to me. I do
>>>>>> polymer clay. While I start with an expectation that it will be some
>>>>>> sort of elephant or a horse or whatever, who knows what twists and
>>>>>> turns will happen along the way. By the way, I'm currently working on
>>>>>> a Harry Potter style house elf holding a tray that can hold business
>>>>>> ccards. The house elf is done, but the tray still needs to be
>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/7/14, Ann at acunningham.com <Ann at acunningham.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of 
>>>>>>> shades
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the continuum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a
>>>>>>> tangent
>>>>>>> tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They started
>>>>>>> laughing
>>>>>>> and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to day. And 
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know and 
>>>>>>> follow
>>>>>>> rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>> the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>> Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>> 303 238 4760
>>>>>>> ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>> http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>> http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called
>>>>>>>> _Vision and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited
>>>>>>>> vision_  It is my pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a 
>>>>>>>> legally
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> painter. It opens one month from today, and if I stop to think 
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> else has to be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but 
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> will keep on working on the details. The show will appear at two
>>>>>>>> locations
>>>>>>>> this year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the 
>>>>>>>> art
>>>>>>>> works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be 
>>>>>>>> teaching in
>>>>>>>> the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at 
>>>>>>>> Geneva
>>>>>>>> College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine arts 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical
>>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>>> of my work and where the ideas have come from when creating it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be 
>>>>>>>> working on
>>>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>>>>> ago,
>>>>>>>> but I am still very much involved in everything but being in the
>>>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between 
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are 
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>> apart philisophically.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>>>> satisfaction
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>>>>> something and
>>>>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly
>>>>>>>> defined
>>>>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of
>>>>>>>> possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the
>>>>>>>> mature
>>>>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin 
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day
>>>>>>>> - she is free of all rules when making art. Everything can be
>>>>>>>> challenged,
>>>>>>>> everything can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the 
>>>>>>>> artist.
>>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>>> there any other profession in this world where there are no rules? 
>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>> the most exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no 
>>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>>> whatsoever for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it.
>>>>>>>> Free,
>>>>>>>> free, free, at last!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually
>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>> to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on to 
>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>> something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and 
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>>>> materials
>>>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. 
>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning 
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>> the "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and 
>>>>>>>> bends in
>>>>>>>> the road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind 
>>>>>>>> set"
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> be, or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what 
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry 
>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making 
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>> discoveries and each work leads to other querstions and more change 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> more new discoveries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table 
>>>>>>>> full of
>>>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have 
>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> each is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, 
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one 
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the 
>>>>>>>> decision she
>>>>>>>> has made.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>>>> To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a blind person from wisconsin 
>>>>>>>>> who is
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>>>>>> together
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always
>>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>>>>>> arts
>>>>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>> going as it is something I've always dreamed of seeing in our 
>>>>>>>>> efforts
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> bring blind people together who love to both create and appreciate 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> visual arts.
>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 6
>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 13:26:55 -0500
>>>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>> Message-ID: <95E84F42EA7F4ADFA9DF888A9D45EA90 at Wellness>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>>> articulate
>>>>> these distinctions.
>>>>> I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter simultaneously. 
>>>>> I am
>>>>> back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my left 
>>>>> brain
>>>>> does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is winning! (no put 
>>>>> down
>>>>> to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>>
>>>>> Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>> pece out
>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>  From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get 
>>>>> back
>>>>> to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good place 
>>>>> for a
>>>>> discussion like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>  That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>>> the
>>>>> two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can take 
>>>>> the
>>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>>> different
>>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>>> with
>>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is a 
>>>>> very
>>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>>> what is
>>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>>> is
>>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." 
>>>>> very
>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>> very
>>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>> College, in
>>>>> western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I have 
>>>>> my MFA
>>>>> in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.  Because of 
>>>>> this
>>>>> background, I was very marketable for a good position.  I was able to 
>>>>> create
>>>>> multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of literature and art, 
>>>>> as
>>>>> well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. 
>>>>> It was
>>>>> a dream of a job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so 
>>>>> many
>>>>> projects with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in 
>>>>> conferences
>>>>> on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for 
>>>>> art and
>>>>> literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>> traveled
>>>>> to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria for my 
>>>>> students
>>>>> every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and out on location 
>>>>> every
>>>>> day, and at the end of the month they had a show - so much fun.  I 
>>>>> also did
>>>>> this with Puerto Rico, and students came to PR with me each spring as 
>>>>> part
>>>>> of their course in Puerto Rico Culture - which I have continued to 
>>>>> visit
>>>>> every March even though I am now retired. It bacame how we spent our 
>>>>> spring
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>>  OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>>> done
>>>>> today!
>>>>>  Lynda
>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>    From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>>> is
>>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of
>>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a
>>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>>> started
>>>>> laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to 
>>>>> day.
>>>>> And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know 
>>>>> and
>>>>> follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am 
>>>>> paid to
>>>>> break the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>>> done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Ann Cunningham
>>>>>    Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>    303 238 4760
>>>>>    ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>    http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>    http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>      From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>      Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>      To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>      <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>      ?
>>>>>      Hi Laurie,
>>>>>      So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>> like
>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to know 
>>>>> and
>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>> furiously
>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>>> _Vision
>>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It 
>>>>> is my
>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>> opens
>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>>> done
>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>> working on
>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>> have a
>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>> for
>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>>> when
>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>> be
>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>> have come
>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>
>>>>>      To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day
>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>> on
>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>> ago, but
>>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>>> between an
>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. Some 
>>>>> basic
>>>>> things may be similar between the two, but most things are very far 
>>>>> apart
>>>>> philisophically.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands 
>>>>> and
>>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>>      Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the
>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>      While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>> something
>>>>> and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>> where
>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>>> defined
>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of 
>>>>> possible
>>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>
>>>>>      The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is 
>>>>> that
>>>>> the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>> those
>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the 
>>>>> mature
>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of
>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - 
>>>>> she is
>>>>> free of all rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, 
>>>>> everything
>>>>> can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there 
>>>>> any
>>>>> other profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>> free,
>>>>> at last!
>>>>>
>>>>>      Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where 
>>>>> the
>>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>>      A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually
>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>> to
>>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>> crafts
>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>> take
>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>> materials
>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>> you
>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>> ask the
>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>> is
>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>> will be,
>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>> just
>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>> An
>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>> simple, and
>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>>> and
>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>
>>>>>      One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>> of
>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>> on
>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and 
>>>>> each
>>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>> she has
>>>>> made.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>      Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>        From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>        To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>        Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>        Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        Hi Folks:
>>>>>
>>>>>        I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin 
>>>>> who
>>>>> is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>>> make
>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>>> with
>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>>> looked
>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>
>>>>>        so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an 
>>>>> art
>>>>> and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are 
>>>>> all arts
>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>>> going
>>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>>> bring
>>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the 
>>>>> visual
>>>>> arts.
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>>        Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>        Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>        To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>> info
>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140207/08273715/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 7
>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 13:48:48 -0500
>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>> Message-ID: <0C82603A06C14829A1FDF9CA9822F0BB at Lambert>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by Luann
>>>>> Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a long 
>>>>> time
>>>>> ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much easier if I 
>>>>> had
>>>>> known these things about the differences between male and female 
>>>>> brains.
>>>>> And, my goodness, I would have been a much better teacher, too. I 
>>>>> would have
>>>>> a better understanding of my fellow human beings - but at least I do
>>>>> understand a lot more about it now since reading this book. It was so
>>>>> enlightening to me and I was telling my husband all about it as we 
>>>>> would
>>>>> ride along in the truck. One day he said to me, "I guess it is like 
>>>>> this
>>>>> conversation we are having right now in this truck."  This was his 
>>>>> insight
>>>>> as I was rapidly sharing so much information as he sat quietly
>>>>> listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now I understand this conversation here 
>>>>> in
>>>>> this truck so much better."  We laughed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the other. 
>>>>> We
>>>>> all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother taking an
>>>>> afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and to creat 
>>>>> a
>>>>> picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. Then, it
>>>>> continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each morning, 
>>>>> one
>>>>> summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew a blouse, 
>>>>> skirt,
>>>>> and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn from those around 
>>>>> us,
>>>>> and how lucky we were to have them in our life. What I do today, is an
>>>>> homage to those women in my life so long ago. I celebrate them with 
>>>>> every
>>>>> stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I say "thank you" to them 
>>>>> for
>>>>> giving me the beginnings of who I am today, and who I am becoming with 
>>>>> each
>>>>> new day and each new idea I work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>  From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to
>>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>  I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>> simultaneously. I
>>>>> am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my 
>>>>> left
>>>>> brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is winning! 
>>>>> (no put
>>>>> down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>>
>>>>>  Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>  pece out
>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>    From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better 
>>>>> get
>>>>> back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>>> place
>>>>> for a discussion like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>    That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>>> between the
>>>>> two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can take 
>>>>> the
>>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>>> different
>>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>>> with
>>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is a 
>>>>> very
>>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>>> what is
>>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>>> is
>>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." 
>>>>> very
>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>> very
>>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>    I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>> College,
>>>>> in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I 
>>>>> have my
>>>>> MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.  Because 
>>>>> of
>>>>> this background, I was very marketable for a good position.  I was 
>>>>> able to
>>>>> create multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of literature 
>>>>> and art,
>>>>> as well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, 
>>>>> drawing. It
>>>>> was a dream of a job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing 
>>>>> so many
>>>>> projects with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in 
>>>>> conferences
>>>>> on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for 
>>>>> art and
>>>>> literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>> traveled
>>>>> to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria for my 
>>>>> students
>>>>> every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and out on location 
>>>>> every
>>>>> day, and at the end of the month they had a show - so much fun.  I 
>>>>> also did
>>>>> this with Puerto Rico, and students came to PR with me each spring as 
>>>>> part
>>>>> of their course in Puerto Rico Culture - which I have continued to 
>>>>> visit
>>>>> every March even though I am now retired. It bacame how we spent our 
>>>>> spring
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>>    OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>>> done
>>>>> today!
>>>>>    Lynda
>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>      From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading 
>>>>> this is
>>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of
>>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on 
>>>>> a
>>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>>> started
>>>>> laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to 
>>>>> day.
>>>>> And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know 
>>>>> and
>>>>> follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am 
>>>>> paid to
>>>>> break the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>>> done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Ann Cunningham
>>>>>      Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>      303 238 4760
>>>>>      ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>      http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>      http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>        From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>        Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>        To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>        <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>        ?
>>>>>        Hi Laurie,
>>>>>        So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I 
>>>>> am
>>>>> like you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>> know
>>>>> and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>> furiously
>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>>> _Vision
>>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It 
>>>>> is my
>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>> opens
>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>>> done
>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>> working on
>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>> have a
>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>> for
>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>>> when
>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>> be
>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>> have come
>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>
>>>>>        To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at 
>>>>> a
>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day
>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>> on
>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>> ago, but
>>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>
>>>>>        Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>>> between
>>>>> an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>> Some
>>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are very 
>>>>> far
>>>>> apart philisophically.
>>>>>
>>>>>        Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands 
>>>>> and
>>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>>        Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the
>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>        While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>> something
>>>>> and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>> where
>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>>> defined
>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of 
>>>>> possible
>>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>
>>>>>        The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is 
>>>>> that
>>>>> the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>> those
>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the 
>>>>> mature
>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of
>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - 
>>>>> she is
>>>>> free of all rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, 
>>>>> everything
>>>>> can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there 
>>>>> any
>>>>> other profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>> free,
>>>>> at last!
>>>>>
>>>>>        Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where 
>>>>> the
>>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>>        A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>>> usually
>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>> to
>>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>> crafts
>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>> take
>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>> materials
>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>> you
>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>> ask the
>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>> is
>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>> will be,
>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>> just
>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>> An
>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>> simple, and
>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>>> and
>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>
>>>>>        One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>> of
>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>> on
>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and 
>>>>> each
>>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>> she has
>>>>> made.
>>>>>
>>>>>        Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>        Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>          From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>          To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>          Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>          Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          Hi Folks:
>>>>>
>>>>>          I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>>> wisconsin
>>>>> who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. 
>>>>> I
>>>>> make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>> together
>>>>> with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have 
>>>>> always
>>>>> looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>
>>>>>          so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between 
>>>>> an art
>>>>> and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are 
>>>>> all arts
>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>>> going
>>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>>> bring
>>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the 
>>>>> visual
>>>>> arts.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>>          Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>          Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>          To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>> info
>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>>        Artists-making-art mailing list
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>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 8
>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 20:54:43 -0500
>>>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>> Message-ID: <35AF1D7D30354C14A11963A2A17E797B at Wellness>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real
>>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy
>>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>>> that
>>>>> five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt out
>>>>> emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>> Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, and 
>>>>> we
>>>>> didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>> Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>>> example is
>>>>> that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and she noticed 
>>>>> that
>>>>> she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter Relationship" and he 
>>>>> was
>>>>> reading "How to get the most out of your Band Saw."
>>>>> To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>>> book,"Drawing on
>>>>> the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if one has time to
>>>>> complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing things upside 
>>>>> down.
>>>>> Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym says 
>>>>> to
>>>>> "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel lines.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>> Patty
>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>  From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>>> Luann
>>>>> Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a long 
>>>>> time
>>>>> ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much easier if I 
>>>>> had
>>>>> known these things about the differences between male and female 
>>>>> brains.
>>>>> And, my goodness, I would have been a much better teacher, too. I 
>>>>> would have
>>>>> a better understanding of my fellow human beings - but at least I do
>>>>> understand a lot more about it now since reading this book. It was so
>>>>> enlightening to me and I was telling my husband all about it as we 
>>>>> would
>>>>> ride along in the truck. One day he said to me, "I guess it is like 
>>>>> this
>>>>> conversation we are having right now in this truck."  This was his 
>>>>> insight
>>>>> as I was rapidly sharing so much information as he sat quietly
>>>>> listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now I understand this conversation here 
>>>>> in
>>>>> this truck so much better."  We laughed.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>>> other. We
>>>>> all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother taking an
>>>>> afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and to creat 
>>>>> a
>>>>> picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. Then, it
>>>>> continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each morning, 
>>>>> one
>>>>> summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew a blouse, 
>>>>> skirt,
>>>>> and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn from those around 
>>>>> us,
>>>>> and how lucky we were to have them in our life. What I do today, is an
>>>>> homage to those women in my life so long ago. I celebrate them with 
>>>>> every
>>>>> stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I say "thank you" to them 
>>>>> for
>>>>> giving me the beginnings of who I am today, and who I am becoming with 
>>>>> each
>>>>> new day and each new idea I work with.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>    From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to
>>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>    I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>> simultaneously. I
>>>>> am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my 
>>>>> left
>>>>> brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is winning! 
>>>>> (no put
>>>>> down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>>
>>>>>    Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>    pece out
>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>      From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better 
>>>>> get
>>>>> back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>>> place
>>>>> for a discussion like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>      That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>>> between
>>>>> the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can 
>>>>> take the
>>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>>> different
>>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>>> with
>>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is a 
>>>>> very
>>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>>> what is
>>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>>> is
>>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." 
>>>>> very
>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>> very
>>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>      I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva
>>>>> College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, 
>>>>> as I
>>>>> have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.
>>>>> Because of this background, I was very marketable for a good position. 
>>>>> I
>>>>> was able to create multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of
>>>>> literature and art, as well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts,
>>>>> printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a job, working in 
>>>>> interdisciplinary
>>>>> studies and doing so many projects with profs in other disciplines.  I 
>>>>> was
>>>>> very active in conferences on interdisciplinary studies.   I created 
>>>>> an
>>>>> European experience for art and literature students and we lived in 
>>>>> Austria
>>>>> every summer and then traveled to other countries. I even had an art
>>>>> exhibition in Austria for my students every summer.  They worked so 
>>>>> hard in
>>>>> the studio and out on location every day, and at the end of the month 
>>>>> they
>>>>> had a show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and 
>>>>> students
>>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico
>>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I am 
>>>>> now
>>>>> retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>>
>>>>>      OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a 
>>>>> piece
>>>>> done today!
>>>>>      Lynda
>>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>        From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>        To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>        Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading 
>>>>> this
>>>>> is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts 
>>>>> of
>>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off 
>>>>> on a
>>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>>> started
>>>>> laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to 
>>>>> day.
>>>>> And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know 
>>>>> and
>>>>> follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am 
>>>>> paid to
>>>>> break the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>>> done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        Ann Cunningham
>>>>>        Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>        303 238 4760
>>>>>        ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>        http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>        http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>          Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>          From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>          Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>          To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>          <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>          ?
>>>>>          Hi Laurie,
>>>>>          So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, 
>>>>> I am
>>>>> like you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>> know
>>>>> and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>> furiously
>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>>> _Vision
>>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It 
>>>>> is my
>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>> opens
>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be 
>>>>> done
>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>> working on
>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>> have a
>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>> for
>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I taught 
>>>>> when
>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>> be
>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>> have come
>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>
>>>>>          To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak 
>>>>> at a
>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day
>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>> on
>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>> ago, but
>>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>
>>>>>          Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap
>>>>> between an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that 
>>>>> wide.
>>>>> Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are 
>>>>> very
>>>>> far apart philisophically.
>>>>>
>>>>>          Both work with the hands, and both love working with the 
>>>>> hands and
>>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>>          Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the
>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>          While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning
>>>>> something and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no
>>>>> notion of where the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter 
>>>>> has a
>>>>> clearly defined path to the finished product. The artist has only some
>>>>> inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>
>>>>>          The other very big thing I see as a difference between them 
>>>>> is
>>>>> that the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate 
>>>>> from
>>>>> those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, 
>>>>> the
>>>>> mature artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may 
>>>>> begin in
>>>>> the early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years 
>>>>> of
>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - 
>>>>> she is
>>>>> free of all rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, 
>>>>> everything
>>>>> can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there 
>>>>> any
>>>>> other profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>> free,
>>>>> at last!
>>>>>
>>>>>          Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is 
>>>>> where
>>>>> the person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>>          A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>>> usually
>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>> to
>>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>> crafts
>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>> take
>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>> materials
>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>> you
>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>> ask the
>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>> is
>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>> will be,
>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>> just
>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>> An
>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>> simple, and
>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new discoveries 
>>>>> and
>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>
>>>>>          One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>> of
>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>> on
>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and 
>>>>> each
>>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>> she has
>>>>> made.
>>>>>
>>>>>          Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>          Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>            From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>            To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>            Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>            Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            Hi Folks:
>>>>>
>>>>>            I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>>> wisconsin
>>>>> who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. 
>>>>> I
>>>>> make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>> together
>>>>> with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have 
>>>>> always
>>>>> looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>
>>>>>            so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between 
>>>>> an
>>>>> art and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but 
>>>>> are all
>>>>> arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>>> list
>>>>> going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts 
>>>>> to
>>>>> bring blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the
>>>>> visual arts.
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>>            Artists-making-art mailing list
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
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>>>>> ------------------------------
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>>>>> End of Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5
>>>>> *************************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
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>>>>>
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