[Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6

[Patricia C. Estes]

Linda-
"LOL" indeed...I will have to sit and get better at entertaining myself 
while in the waiting room.
Patty
and thanks so much for those links
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
<artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6


> Patty, your mother was one fantastic teacher!
> OH, NO, what will you once you can no longer attend the private art 
> showings? Such a loss!  l o l
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 8:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 
> 6
>
>
>> Linda-this was a fun spin you put on my experience...and when you 
>> mentioned "weight", I heard Mom's words,"OK, you have shown me the 
>> shape...but objects take up space and have weight! I don't see that 
>> it-anchor it!"
>> Patty
>> PS A few weeks ago I was told that my dentist sold his practice. I've 
>> been seeing  him for twenty years and my reaction was relief!!
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 9:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, 
>> Issue 6
>>
>>
>>> Patty, this was so funny! There you are, a captive audience for a one 
>>> person art show - right there in your dentist's office!  This could be a 
>>> comic skit on SNL. But, I do understand what you are saying, seriously. 
>>> If the artist would just spend some time getting to know those objects 
>>> in a personal way, it would make a difference. She could just sit and 
>>> hold them, feel their weight, explore the surfaces and how they move in 
>>> space, and things like this.  The way you describe them makes it seem to 
>>> me as though they don't have a sense of "touch" to them and as a viewer 
>>> you cannot get that feeling from the paintings, so something is amiss. 
>>> The scary part is that this is really how she sees them herself.
>>>
>>> Lynda
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 7:55 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, 
>>> Issue 6
>>>
>>>
>>>> Linda, what you just expressed about understanding the object, 
>>>> whatever, one is painting totally explains something to me. We have a 
>>>> local artist who has many, many still life paintings and the subjects 
>>>> are interesting and the colors dramatic and she is truly hailed around 
>>>> these parts. But I have such trouble with her work-after the color, the 
>>>> subject and the presentation. (and here it is, my personal perspective 
>>>> presented as fact!) In my opinion, all of her objects seem to be 
>>>> floating-no sense of dimension. Which goes back to the time spent 
>>>> learning to draw (her shadowing is confusing and these are not 
>>>> abstracts) and, she may not "understand" her subjects and relies on 
>>>> vision alone to define it...just thinking out loud.
>>>> Evry time I go to my dentist's for cleanings, the paintings around the 
>>>> place are all different...oh, this artist is married to my dentist. So, 
>>>> I am confronted with these large canvases and I just stare at one 
>>>> painting at a time to try to "see" what she is doing and why it is that 
>>>> it bothers me-grapes and wine bottles just don't float! OK...back to 
>>>> the no rules thing, I love that, but...hmmm...I think I'll rethink 
>>>> this.Maybe these do float... Maybe I don't need a reason to be 
>>>> distracted by her lack of grounding things, in my view. Maybe I just 
>>>> don't like her work!
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the energy here is nice-the clearer we can be about what we are 
>>>> doing, want to do, etc...that clarity is quite fresh. But this applies 
>>>> in all endeavors, of course. That is until one comes to the point that 
>>>> there just aren't the words for what we think/feel.  the space and 
>>>> energy around creating from the self are nebulous-like trying to tack 
>>>> jello to a tree. But we just love trying, don't we? -loving the 
>>>> subjects here has been very energizing.
>>>> Patty
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons" 
>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 7:03 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, 
>>>> Issue 6
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> As a drawing teacher, I understood that if my sighted students did not 
>>>>> understand the object they were drawing by using all their senses, 
>>>>> then they did not understand that thing at all. Because the sense of 
>>>>> sight is so powerful and takes over all the other senses, a sighted 
>>>>> person just takes a very quick glance at things and THINKS she 
>>>>> understands it and she does not at all.  The drawing will be merely 
>>>>> superficial and will not show the nuances of it, as it is in space, 
>>>>> it's weight, etc. When blindfolded, the student begins to understand 
>>>>> the object on deeper levels of understanding. What happens is that by 
>>>>> relying only on sight, the student cannot really SEE a thing at all - 
>>>>> but they think they can. So blindfolding the student had nothing to do 
>>>>> with how a blind person experiences the thing, it had to do with 
>>>>> really SEEING the thing. Seeing is something that is experienced over 
>>>>> a very long period of time - it required that the person slow way 
>>>>> down, and focus on the moment in time as they touch the object - and 
>>>>> they are at the same time, learning how it really looks.  Sight alone 
>>>>> cannot do this for us. This is very intersting to me because I had 
>>>>> never been around a blind person in my life, with the exception of two 
>>>>> different people whom I had only very limited time with. I would not 
>>>>> have made the connection between sight loss and the drawing experience 
>>>>> at that time at all. Only in hind sight, after my own sight loss, can 
>>>>> I truly understand how important these lessons were.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Laurie Porter" <free.spirit1 at live.com>
>>>>> To: <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 6:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, 
>>>>> Issue 6
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea that all children blind or sighted can draw pictures 
>>>>>> fascinates me. I was legally blind all my life until 2003 when I lost 
>>>>>> all my sight. both of my parents  were blind, and I recall them never 
>>>>>> knowing how to draw anything However, fundimentally  all children, 
>>>>>> blind or sighted learn basics like drawing a circle or square then 
>>>>>> later other shapes. I might have been a better drawer  if I had 
>>>>>> access to tactual shapes. I was encouraged to use my vision to do 
>>>>>> everything but my parents lacked the ability to teach me how to 
>>>>>> process things visually which comes to all children at a very early 
>>>>>> age. this is a very interesting t,   -----Original Message----- 
>>>>>> From: artists-making-art-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 2:03 PM
>>>>>> To: artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send Artists-making-art mailing list submissions to
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Artists-making-art digest..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   1. Re: drawing the internal dialogue (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>>   2. Re: drawing the internal dialogue (Sahar's Beaded Creations)
>>>>>>   3. Re: drawing the internal dialogue (Patricia C. Estes)
>>>>>>   4. Re: Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5 (Laurie Porter)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 08:56:25 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>>> Message-ID: <2E945A7FA30F4110A726835349F4841D at Lambert>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patricia, you bring up the most fascinating things. This is another 
>>>>>> one of those things that is so enjoyable to think about. Drawing!  We 
>>>>>> do not need sight to draw, I am absolutely sure of that. In fact, in 
>>>>>> many of my drawing courses, I had students draw blindfolded. They had 
>>>>>> to feel the objects, then return to the easel to do their drawings. 
>>>>>> They could walk over to feel it as often as they liked during the 
>>>>>> process, but they were not permitted to have a physical "look" at it 
>>>>>> with the eyes. The drawings they made were astounding - so full of 
>>>>>> livingness and so magical. You are making me remember those things 
>>>>>> that I had not thought of for a very long time - and this is great 
>>>>>> for me because I am going to be a speaker at a conference on 
>>>>>> disabilities and inclusion in March, and this is exactly what I 
>>>>>> needed to be thinking about as I prep for that lecture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If anyone else has some examples of experiences for me, that I could 
>>>>>> share with the audience, please let me know.  I want to really make 
>>>>>> my audience understand that blind people have the same passions for 
>>>>>> art and art making as anyone else. We just have to learn adaptive 
>>>>>> ways of working, but we can do it, and we love to do it and it brings 
>>>>>> us great joy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yes, I used Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain as a textbook 
>>>>>> for Drawing courses at the college! I also used "The Natural Way to 
>>>>>> Draw" by Nicolaides.  I have worked my way through both of these 
>>>>>> books for years on end. Drawing is the core of everything we do as 
>>>>>> artists and without a good foundation in drawing, it's difficult to 
>>>>>> move on - it is the structure on which we build everything else no 
>>>>>> matter the medium we work with. Drawing puts us in touch with the 
>>>>>> internal dialogue and we become more aware and connected with the 
>>>>>> object we are drawing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The interesting thing about drawing, to me, has always been that all 
>>>>>> children seem to know how to draw by instinct. How does that "fit" in 
>>>>>> your experience, Patricia?  I have never encountered a child who did 
>>>>>> not know how to draw and make pictures - I have always thought we are 
>>>>>> born with these abilities.  I think a child born blind would have 
>>>>>> this same inclination, if provided with the tools and opportunities 
>>>>>> early on, but that is a guess on my part. I would love to know more 
>>>>>> about this by someone who has had the experience as a very small 
>>>>>> child without sight. Drawing is more, far more, than the thing that 
>>>>>> is left on the page after the person has made it. It is a whole body 
>>>>>> experience - physical and spiritual experience, in my experiences. 
>>>>>> So, it seems to me that no sight is needed to make drawings. I like 
>>>>>> to say, about my own work, that the "thing that is on display on the 
>>>>>> gallery wall is the residue left behind as I was making art."  It is 
>>>>>> not the art itself, it is the tracks that show I was there.  The art 
>>>>>> was what transpired within me as I worked on it and the piece in the 
>>>>>> gallery is the evidence that I was there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to say that without my extensive drawing background, I would 
>>>>>> not be who I am today as a blind person. I have a small amount of 
>>>>>> peripheral vision that is enough that I can detect movement. Those 
>>>>>> movements are "gestures" and it is through the gestures around me 
>>>>>> that I navigate the world and that I identify people and things. It 
>>>>>> is the essence of everything - gesture. When I am making my art these 
>>>>>> days, it is because I am accustomed to using gesture and can continue 
>>>>>> to do that without sight. Touch is gesture, and that is how I 
>>>>>> understand what I touch. I feel it's internal and external gesture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OH, that is so funny about your 5 year old's comment about using his 
>>>>>> "girl brain."  This is what I found so fascinating when I was reading 
>>>>>> this book, that the entire structure of the brain is very different 
>>>>>> in males and females. Each individual part of the brain is different 
>>>>>> between the sexes - so it is a physical as well as psychological 
>>>>>> difference. She explored many different nuances that really helped me 
>>>>>> as a blind person as well, as I was reading. It gave me new insight 
>>>>>> into different aspects we encounter due to sight loss. I would highly 
>>>>>> recommend it to anyone who has interest in learning more about how 
>>>>>> the brain functions, and it is explored in a way that a non-science 
>>>>>> person like me coulnd understand and enjoy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is all certainly another aspect of  the discussion on difference 
>>>>>> between art and crafts thought process and ways of "seeing."  Lynda
>>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>  From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:54 PM
>>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real 
>>>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy 
>>>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>>>> that five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt 
>>>>>> out emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>>>  Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, 
>>>>>> and we didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>>>  Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>>>> example is that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and 
>>>>>> she noticed that she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter 
>>>>>> Relationship" and he was reading "How to get the most out of your 
>>>>>> Band Saw."
>>>>>>  To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>>>> book,"Drawing on the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if 
>>>>>> one has time to complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing 
>>>>>> things upside down.
>>>>>>  Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym 
>>>>>> says to "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel 
>>>>>> lines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>>>  Patty
>>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>    From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>>>> Luann Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information 
>>>>>> a long time ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much 
>>>>>> easier if I had known these things about the differences between male 
>>>>>> and female brains. And, my goodness, I would have been a much better 
>>>>>> teacher, too. I would have a better understanding of my fellow human 
>>>>>> beings - but at least I do understand a lot more about it now since 
>>>>>> reading this book. It was so enlightening to me and I was telling my 
>>>>>> husband all about it as we would ride along in the truck. One day he 
>>>>>> said to me, "I guess it is like this conversation we are having right 
>>>>>> now in this truck."  This was his insight as I was rapidly sharing so 
>>>>>> much information as he sat quietly listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now 
>>>>>> I understand this conversation here in this truck so much better." 
>>>>>> We laughed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>>>> other. We all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother 
>>>>>> taking an afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches 
>>>>>> and to creat a picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years 
>>>>>> old. Then, it continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour 
>>>>>> each morning, one summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how 
>>>>>> to sew a blouse, skirt, and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. 
>>>>>> We learn from those around us, and how lucky we were to have them in 
>>>>>> our life. What I do today, is an homage to those women in my life so 
>>>>>> long ago. I celebrate them with every stitch  I make in my art these 
>>>>>> days. And, I say "thank you" to them for giving me the beginnings of 
>>>>>> who I am today, and who I am becoming with each new day and each new 
>>>>>> idea I work with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>      From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>>      I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>>> simultaneously. I am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but 
>>>>>> I will admit, my left brain does like rules and instructions-but my 
>>>>>> Girl Brain is winning! (no put down to Boy Brains, just a family 
>>>>>> joke).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>>      pece out
>>>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>        From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>        To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>        Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I 
>>>>>> better get back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should 
>>>>>> be a good place for a discussion like this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>>>> between the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a 
>>>>>> crafter can take the exact same materials, but the mind that works 
>>>>>> with them is quite different and the results are quite different. 
>>>>>> It's really about "ideas" and "concepts" and what we are thinking 
>>>>>> about as we work, and where we go with the materials in our process 
>>>>>> of working. In Pittsburgh, PA there is a very fine museum/gallery 
>>>>>> called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, what is done there, 
>>>>>> and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there is CRAFT, 
>>>>>> too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very 
>>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>>> very aware of this, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>>> College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across 
>>>>>> disciplines, as I have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in 
>>>>>> English Literature. Because of this background, I was very marketable 
>>>>>> for a good position.  I was able to create multi-discipline courses - 
>>>>>> alway a combination of literature and art, as well as studio courses 
>>>>>> in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a 
>>>>>> job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so many projects 
>>>>>> with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in conferences on 
>>>>>> interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for art 
>>>>>> and literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>>> traveled to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria 
>>>>>> for my students every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and 
>>>>>> out on location every day, and at the end of the month they had a 
>>>>>> show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and students 
>>>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico 
>>>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I 
>>>>>> am now retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a 
>>>>>> piece done today!
>>>>>>        Lynda
>>>>>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>          From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>          To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>          Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>>          Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is 
>>>>>> reading this is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there 
>>>>>> are all sorts of shades in the continuum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went 
>>>>>> off on a tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather 
>>>>>> randomly. They started laughing and saying something akin to how do 
>>>>>> you make it from day to day. And I said you guys are pilots and for 
>>>>>> you to be a good pilot you know and follow rules. That is what they 
>>>>>> pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid to break the rules. No one 
>>>>>> wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>          Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>          303 238 4760
>>>>>>          ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>          http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>          http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>            Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new 
>>>>>> member
>>>>>>            From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>            Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>            To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>            <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            ?
>>>>>>            Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>            So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group 
>>>>>> though, I am like you, I just came on to ask a question about 
>>>>>> something I needed to know and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me 
>>>>>> with my question.  I am furiously working right now (oops, split that 
>>>>>> infinitive!) getting work done for the opening of a two-person 
>>>>>> exhibition at a museum - the show is called _Vision and Revision: 
>>>>>> Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ It is my pottery 
>>>>>> and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It opens 
>>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to 
>>>>>> be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will 
>>>>>> keep on working on the details. The show will appear at two locations 
>>>>>> this year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the 
>>>>>> art works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be 
>>>>>> teaching in the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts 
>>>>>> course at Geneva College. That is where I taught when I was a 
>>>>>> professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll be 
>>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>>> have come from when creating it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to 
>>>>>> speak at a conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two 
>>>>>> sessions, the day before we hang our show. So, I have those 
>>>>>> presentations to be working on every day now, too.  I officially 
>>>>>> retired from teaching 5 1/2 years ago, but I am still very much 
>>>>>> involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Here is my response to the question you have asked. The 
>>>>>> gap between an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is 
>>>>>> that wide. Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most 
>>>>>> things are very far apart philisophically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Both work with the hands, and both love working with the 
>>>>>> hands and most have done it all their life.
>>>>>>            Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>>> something and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with 
>>>>>> no notion of where the end will be or even if it will be.  the 
>>>>>> crafter has a clearly defined path to the finished product. The 
>>>>>> artist has only some inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find 
>>>>>> them as she works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            The other very big thing I see as a difference between 
>>>>>> them is that the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever 
>>>>>> deviate from those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On 
>>>>>> the other hand, the mature artist has learned that there are no rules 
>>>>>> at all. They may begin in the early stages by learning techniques, 
>>>>>> but eventually with the years of working, the light comes on in her 
>>>>>> brain when she discovers one day - she is free of all rules when 
>>>>>> making art. Everything can be challenged, everything can be changed, 
>>>>>> and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any other 
>>>>>> profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most 
>>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>>> whatsoever for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. 
>>>>>> Free, free, free, at last!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is 
>>>>>> where the person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>>>> usually content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then 
>>>>>> moves on to learn something else and does that again with it. The 
>>>>>> artist can take crafts materials (which is what you and I both do) 
>>>>>> and techniques, and then take them far beyond because they will 
>>>>>> combine their techniques and materials with the imagination.  If you 
>>>>>> can teach it, it is usually a craft. If you cannot teach it, it is 
>>>>>> normally art. Art can begin by learning some techniques, or using 
>>>>>> craft materials, but then the person begins to ask the "what if" 
>>>>>> questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in the road 
>>>>>> on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that is 
>>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that 
>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>> will be, or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand 
>>>>>> what I have just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and 
>>>>>> angry with it.  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have 
>>>>>> said. It is that simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on 
>>>>>> change and making new discoveries and each work leads to other 
>>>>>> querstions and more change and more new discoveries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            One can see the difference when you look at work in types 
>>>>>> of environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table 
>>>>>> full of things that are basically all the same while the other will 
>>>>>> have work on display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where 
>>>>>> they "fit" and each is very happy with where they are. They are 
>>>>>> different animals, with different ideas, and different end results 
>>>>>> and outcomes. Each one has decided their own path and each one is 
>>>>>> comfortable with the decision she has made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>              From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>              To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>              Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>              Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              Hi Folks:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>>>> wisconsin who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium 
>>>>>> is beadwork. I make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed 
>>>>>> beads sewn together with thread. but most of my work is in making 
>>>>>> jewlry, but I have always looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              so, I have a basic question. What is the difference 
>>>>>> between an art and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of 
>>>>>> art  but are all arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you 
>>>>>> for getting this list going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of 
>>>>>> seeing in our efforts to bring blind people together who love to both 
>>>>>> create and appreciate the visual arts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              _______________________________________________
>>>>>>              Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>              Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>              To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>>> account info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>>>            Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>            Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>            To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>>> account info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>>>          Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>          Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>          To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>        To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
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>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 09:41:10 -0600
>>>>>> From: "Sahar's Beaded Creations" <sahar at inebraska.com>
>>>>>> To: "'An exploration of art by and for blind persons'"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>>> Message-ID: <024c01cf24e4$31086190$931924b0$@inebraska.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello, Lynda,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember drawing as a small child, and I really think I would have 
>>>>>> been able to develop the skill had that skill been cultivated.  I 
>>>>>> think that the teachers figured blind people couldn?t draw, so I 
>>>>>> don?t remember them involving us in that after Kindergarten. 
>>>>>> However, that?s not why I wrote. I wrote because I wondered if you?d 
>>>>>> ever heard of the totally blind Turkish painter, Asraf.  Apparently, 
>>>>>> who can paint in vivid detail. I find that truly fascinating.  He 
>>>>>> might be someone you might want to look up.  Take care.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sahar Husseini
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For hand-crafted, one-of-a-kind jewelry, please visit my Website at 
>>>>>> <http://www.saharscreations.com> www.saharscreations.com Find me on 
>>>>>> Facebook at  <http://www.facebook.com/saharscreations> 
>>>>>> www.facebook.com/saharscreations And remember, "Obstacles don't have 
>>>>>> to stop you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Jordan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Artists-making-art 
>>>>>> [mailto:artists-making-art-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
>>>>>> Lambert
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 7:56 AM
>>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patricia, you bring up the most fascinating things. This is another 
>>>>>> one of those things that is so enjoyable to think about. Drawing!  We 
>>>>>> do not need sight to draw, I am absolutely sure of that. In fact, in 
>>>>>> many of my drawing courses, I had students draw blindfolded. They had 
>>>>>> to feel the objects, then return to the easel to do their drawings. 
>>>>>> They could walk over to feel it as often as they liked during the 
>>>>>> process, but they were not permitted to have a physical "look" at it 
>>>>>> with the eyes. The drawings they made were astounding - so full of 
>>>>>> livingness and so magical. You are making me remember those things 
>>>>>> that I had not thought of for a very long time - and this is great 
>>>>>> for me because I am going to be a speaker at a conference on 
>>>>>> disabilities and inclusion in March, and this is exactly what I 
>>>>>> needed to be thinking about as I prep for that lecture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If anyone else has some examples of experiences for me, that I could 
>>>>>> share with the audience, please let me know.  I want to really make 
>>>>>> my audience understand that blind people have the same passions for 
>>>>>> art and art making as anyone else. We just have to learn adaptive 
>>>>>> ways of working, but we can do it, and we love to do it and it brings 
>>>>>> us great joy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yes, I used Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain as a textbook 
>>>>>> for Drawing courses at the college! I also used "The Natural Way to 
>>>>>> Draw" by Nicolaides.  I have worked my way through both of these 
>>>>>> books for years on end. Drawing is the core of everything we do as 
>>>>>> artists and without a good foundation in drawing, it's difficult to 
>>>>>> move on - it is the structure on which we build everything else no 
>>>>>> matter the medium we work with. Drawing puts us in touch with the 
>>>>>> internal dialogue and we become more aware and connected with the 
>>>>>> object we are drawing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The interesting thing about drawing, to me, has always been that all 
>>>>>> children seem to know how to draw by instinct. How does that "fit" in 
>>>>>> your experience, Patricia?  I have never encountered a child who did 
>>>>>> not know how to draw and make pictures - I have always thought we are 
>>>>>> born with these abilities.  I think a child born blind would have 
>>>>>> this same inclination, if provided with the tools and opportunities 
>>>>>> early on, but that is a guess on my part. I would love to know more 
>>>>>> about this by someone who has had the experience as a very small 
>>>>>> child without sight. Drawing is more, far more, than the thing that 
>>>>>> is left on the page after the person has made it. It is a whole body 
>>>>>> experience - physical and spiritual experience, in my experiences. 
>>>>>> So, it seems to me that no sight is needed to make drawings. I like 
>>>>>> to say, about my own work, that the "thing that is on display on the 
>>>>>> gallery wall is the residue left behind as I was making art."  It is 
>>>>>> not the art itself, it is the tracks that show I was there.  The art 
>>>>>> was what transpired within me as I worked on it and the piece in the 
>>>>>> gallery is the evidence that I was there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to say that without my extensive drawing background, I would 
>>>>>> not be who I am today as a blind person. I have a small amount of 
>>>>>> peripheral vision that is enough that I can detect movement. Those 
>>>>>> movements are "gestures" and it is through the gestures around me 
>>>>>> that I navigate the world and that I identify people and things. It 
>>>>>> is the essence of everything - gesture. When I am making my art these 
>>>>>> days, it is because I am accustomed to using gesture and can continue 
>>>>>> to do that without sight. Touch is gesture, and that is how I 
>>>>>> understand what I touch. I feel it's internal and external gesture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OH, that is so funny about your 5 year old's comment about using his 
>>>>>> "girl brain."  This is what I found so fascinating when I was reading 
>>>>>> this book, that the entire structure of the brain is very different 
>>>>>> in males and females. Each individual part of the brain is different 
>>>>>> between the sexes - so it is a physical as well as psychological 
>>>>>> difference. She explored many different nuances that really helped me 
>>>>>> as a blind person as well, as I was reading. It gave me new insight 
>>>>>> into different aspects we encounter due to sight loss. I would highly 
>>>>>> recommend it to anyone who has interest in learning more about how 
>>>>>> the brain functions, and it is explored in a way that a non-science 
>>>>>> person like me coulnd understand and enjoy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is all certainly another aspect of  the discussion on difference 
>>>>>> between art and crafts thought process and ways of "seeing."  Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Patricia C. Estes <mailto:pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:54 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real 
>>>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy 
>>>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>>>> that five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt 
>>>>>> out emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, and 
>>>>>> we didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>>>> example is that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and 
>>>>>> she noticed that she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter 
>>>>>> Relationship" and he was reading "How to get the most out of your 
>>>>>> Band Saw."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>>>> book,"Drawing on the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if 
>>>>>> one has time to complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing 
>>>>>> things upside down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym says 
>>>>>> to "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel 
>>>>>> lines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Lynda Lambert <mailto:llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>>>> Luann Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information 
>>>>>> a long time ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much 
>>>>>> easier if I had known these things about the differences between male 
>>>>>> and female brains. And, my goodness, I would have been a much better 
>>>>>> teacher, too. I would have a better understanding of my fellow human 
>>>>>> beings - but at least I do understand a lot more about it now since 
>>>>>> reading this book. It was so enlightening to me and I was telling my 
>>>>>> husband all about it as we would ride along in the truck. One day he 
>>>>>> said to me, "I guess it is like this conversation we are having right 
>>>>>> now in this truck."  This was his insight as I was rapidly sharing so 
>>>>>> much information as he sat quietly listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now 
>>>>>> I understand this conversation here in this truck so much better." 
>>>>>> We laughed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>>>> other. We all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother 
>>>>>> taking an afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches 
>>>>>> and to creat a picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years 
>>>>>> old. Then, it continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour 
>>>>>> each morning, one summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how 
>>>>>> to sew a blouse, skirt, and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. 
>>>>>> We learn from those around us, and how lucky we were to have them in 
>>>>>> our life. What I do today, is an homage to those women in my life so 
>>>>>> long ago. I celebrate them with every stitch  I make in my art these 
>>>>>> days. And, I say "thank you" to them for giving me the beginnings of 
>>>>>> who I am today, and who I am becoming with each new day and each new 
>>>>>> idea I work with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400 
>>>>>> <http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1> 
>>>>>> &sr=1-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Patricia C. Estes <mailto:pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>>> simultaneously. I am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but 
>>>>>> I will admit, my left brain does like rules and instructions-but my 
>>>>>> Girl Brain is winning! (no put down to Boy Brains, just a family 
>>>>>> joke).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pece out
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Lynda Lambert <mailto:llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get 
>>>>>> back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>>>> place for a discussion like this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>>>> the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can 
>>>>>> take the exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is 
>>>>>> quite different and the results are quite different. It's really 
>>>>>> about "ideas" and "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we 
>>>>>> work, and where we go with the materials in our process of working. 
>>>>>> In Pittsburgh, PA there is a very fine museum/gallery called the 
>>>>>> Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, what is done there, and shown 
>>>>>> there is high art. So there is crafts and there is CRAFT, too.  There 
>>>>>> is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." very distinct 
>>>>>> differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be very aware 
>>>>>> of this, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>>> College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across 
>>>>>> disciplines, as I have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in 
>>>>>> English Literature. Because of this background, I was very marketable 
>>>>>> for a good position. I was able to create multi-discipline courses - 
>>>>>> alway a combination of literature and art, as well as studio courses 
>>>>>> in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a 
>>>>>> job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so many projects 
>>>>>> with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in conferences on 
>>>>>> interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for art 
>>>>>> and literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>>> traveled to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria 
>>>>>> for my students every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and 
>>>>>> out on location every day, and at the end of the month they had a 
>>>>>> show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and students 
>>>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico 
>>>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I 
>>>>>> am now retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>>>> done today!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Ann at acunningham.com <mailto:Ann at acunningham.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons 
>>>>>> <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>>>> is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all 
>>>>>> sorts of shades in the continuum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a 
>>>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>>>> started laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from 
>>>>>> day to day. And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good 
>>>>>> pilot you know and follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am 
>>>>>> an artist and I am paid to break the rules. No one wants to hear from 
>>>>>> me if it has already been done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 303 238 4760
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ann at acunningham.com <mailto:ann at acunningham.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net 
>>>>>> <mailto:llambert at zoominternet.net> >
>>>>>> Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org <mailto:artists-making-art at nfbnet.org> 
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>>> like you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed 
>>>>>> to know and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question. 
>>>>>> I am furiously working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) 
>>>>>> getting work done for the opening of a two-person exhibition at a 
>>>>>> museum - the show is called _Vision and Revision:  Two artists with 
>>>>>> limited sight, not limited vision_ It is my pottery and mixed-media 
>>>>>> fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It opens one month from 
>>>>>> today, and if I stop to think about what else has to be done yet, 
>>>>>> I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on working 
>>>>>> on the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and 
>>>>>> will have a video that plays in the gallery with the art works, 
>>>>>> Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the 
>>>>>> gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at Geneva 
>>>>>> College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine arts 
>>>>>> and humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical 
>>>>>> context of my work and where the ideas have come from when creating 
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a 
>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>> day before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be 
>>>>>> working on every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 
>>>>>> 1/2 years ago, but I am still very much involved in everything but 
>>>>>> being in the classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between 
>>>>>> an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>> Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are 
>>>>>> very far apart philisophically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>>>> and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion 
>>>>>> of where the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a 
>>>>>> clearly defined path to the finished product. The artist has only 
>>>>>> some inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find them as she 
>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>>> the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>>> those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, 
>>>>>> the mature artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They 
>>>>>> may begin in the early stages by learning techniques, but eventually 
>>>>>> with the years of working, the light comes on in her brain when she 
>>>>>> discovers one day - she is free of all rules when making art. 
>>>>>> Everything can be challenged, everything can be changed, and 
>>>>>> everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any other 
>>>>>> profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most 
>>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>>> whatsoever for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. 
>>>>>> Free, free, free, at last!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the 
>>>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually 
>>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>>> to learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can 
>>>>>> take crafts materials (which is what you and I both do) and 
>>>>>> techniques, and then take them far beyond because they will combine 
>>>>>> their techniques and materials with the imagination.  If you can 
>>>>>> teach it, it is usually a craft. If you cannot teach it, it is 
>>>>>> normally art. Art can begin by learning some techniques, or using 
>>>>>> craft materials, but then the person begins to ask the "what if" 
>>>>>> questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in the road 
>>>>>> on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that is 
>>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that 
>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>> will be, or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand 
>>>>>> what I have just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and 
>>>>>> angry with it. An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have 
>>>>>> said. It is that simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on 
>>>>>> change and making new discoveries and each work leads to other 
>>>>>> querstions and more change and more new discoveries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of 
>>>>>> environments. One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>>> of things that are basically all the same while the other will have 
>>>>>> work on display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they 
>>>>>> "fit" and each is very happy with where they are. They are different 
>>>>>> animals, with different ideas, and different end results and 
>>>>>> outcomes. Each one has decided their own path and each one is 
>>>>>> comfortable with the decision she has made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Laurie Porter <mailto:free.spirit1 at live.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> <mailto:Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin who 
>>>>>> is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>>>> make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>>> together with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I 
>>>>>> have always looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art 
>>>>>> and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are 
>>>>>> all arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting 
>>>>>> this list going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in 
>>>>>> our efforts to bring blind people together who love to both create 
>>>>>> and appreciate the visual arts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _____
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>  _____
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>  _____
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 11:28:45 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>>> Message-ID: <FBEE8CE951524EB0A97347CAF39B9E92 at Wellness>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good morning,
>>>>>> Linda, I am glad to be of some "help" in your preparation!! I guess I 
>>>>>> needed a Job!
>>>>>> The discussions have been intriguing...in the sense that I am being 
>>>>>> reminded of things I already know. Everyone's input has been fun!
>>>>>> About drawing: APH has a tactile board for raised line drawings/math 
>>>>>> assignments, etc. This is what I would put in the hands of a blind 
>>>>>> child-the stylus can be used for lines and a type of "shading." And 
>>>>>> of course, it would also be useful for a blind child to do the same 
>>>>>> thing as a sighted child, as you mentioned: feel the object and draw 
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> (OK, get ready, I digress a bit: This reminds me of the work I have 
>>>>>> done as an Infant Massage Instructor-there are certain, simple 
>>>>>> strokes that we teach the parents and the result is calming, of 
>>>>>> course ...well, unless said baby being massaged is done!... but one 
>>>>>> of the many objectives of this massage stroke is "to help the infant 
>>>>>> to organize his/her world." In this case:"These things are part of 
>>>>>> me...legs, arms...and this is me here and that is someone else over 
>>>>>> there." At which point the baby realizes that they are getting some 
>>>>>> undivided attention and they get all excited! And with a blind child, 
>>>>>> especially, or the newly blinded, this art exercise in observing 
>>>>>> one's world would be really helpful in sorting out, organizing and 
>>>>>> internalizing. But it would be helpful for *anyone* to do, and for 
>>>>>> the same reasons!)
>>>>>> I like that your intent is not to try to get students to experience 
>>>>>> what life is like as a blind person!! It is just an art play!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK...about drawing/sketching, I think that is as essential as 
>>>>>> learning the basics of music before playing in an orchestra. As much 
>>>>>> as we'd love to skip right over the practice sessions, that just is 
>>>>>> no other way. And I do think that there are "work arounds" for blind 
>>>>>> artists of any age who have never seen, to learn perspective and to 
>>>>>> share it. (Ann would know lots about this). Because of my background 
>>>>>> in classical sketching with my mom, I could branch out to design and 
>>>>>> suggest/gesture the images...like fashion design and even like 
>>>>>> impressionistic painting. Reducing the "story" to the most 
>>>>>> interesting lines/colors. (which will be different for each artist 
>>>>>> and viewer).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes-
>>>>>> Patty
>>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>  From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>  Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 8:56 AM
>>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] drawing the internal dialogue
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Patricia, you bring up the most fascinating things. This is another 
>>>>>> one of those things that is so enjoyable to think about. Drawing!  We 
>>>>>> do not need sight to draw, I am absolutely sure of that. In fact, in 
>>>>>> many of my drawing courses, I had students draw blindfolded. They had 
>>>>>> to feel the objects, then return to the easel to do their drawings. 
>>>>>> They could walk over to feel it as often as they liked during the 
>>>>>> process, but they were not permitted to have a physical "look" at it 
>>>>>> with the eyes. The drawings they made were astounding - so full of 
>>>>>> livingness and so magical. You are making me remember those things 
>>>>>> that I had not thought of for a very long time - and this is great 
>>>>>> for me because I am going to be a speaker at a conference on 
>>>>>> disabilities and inclusion in March, and this is exactly what I 
>>>>>> needed to be thinking about as I prep for that lecture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  If anyone else has some examples of experiences for me, that I could 
>>>>>> share with the audience, please let me know.  I want to really make 
>>>>>> my audience understand that blind people have the same passions for 
>>>>>> art and art making as anyone else. We just have to learn adaptive 
>>>>>> ways of working, but we can do it, and we love to do it and it brings 
>>>>>> us great joy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  yes, I used Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain as a textbook 
>>>>>> for Drawing courses at the college! I also used "The Natural Way to 
>>>>>> Draw" by Nicolaides.  I have worked my way through both of these 
>>>>>> books for years on end. Drawing is the core of everything we do as 
>>>>>> artists and without a good foundation in drawing, it's difficult to 
>>>>>> move on - it is the structure on which we build everything else no 
>>>>>> matter the medium we work with. Drawing puts us in touch with the 
>>>>>> internal dialogue and we become more aware and connected with the 
>>>>>> object we are drawing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  The interesting thing about drawing, to me, has always been that all 
>>>>>> children seem to know how to draw by instinct. How does that "fit" in 
>>>>>> your experience, Patricia?  I have never encountered a child who did 
>>>>>> not know how to draw and make pictures - I have always thought we are 
>>>>>> born with these abilities.  I think a child born blind would have 
>>>>>> this same inclination, if provided with the tools and opportunities 
>>>>>> early on, but that is a guess on my part. I would love to know more 
>>>>>> about this by someone who has had the experience as a very small 
>>>>>> child without sight. Drawing is more, far more, than the thing that 
>>>>>> is left on the page after the person has made it. It is a whole body 
>>>>>> experience - physical and spiritual experience, in my experiences. 
>>>>>> So, it seems to me that no sight is needed to make drawings. I like 
>>>>>> to say, about my own work, that the "thing that is on display on the 
>>>>>> gallery wall is the residue left behind as I was making art."  It is 
>>>>>> not the art itself, it is the tracks that show I was there.  The art 
>>>>>> was what transpired within me as I worked on it and the piece in the 
>>>>>> gallery is the evidence that I was there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I have to say that without my extensive drawing background, I would 
>>>>>> not be who I am today as a blind person. I have a small amount of 
>>>>>> peripheral vision that is enough that I can detect movement. Those 
>>>>>> movements are "gestures" and it is through the gestures around me 
>>>>>> that I navigate the world and that I identify people and things. It 
>>>>>> is the essence of everything - gesture. When I am making my art these 
>>>>>> days, it is because I am accustomed to using gesture and can continue 
>>>>>> to do that without sight. Touch is gesture, and that is how I 
>>>>>> understand what I touch. I feel it's internal and external gesture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  OH, that is so funny about your 5 year old's comment about using his 
>>>>>> "girl brain."  This is what I found so fascinating when I was reading 
>>>>>> this book, that the entire structure of the brain is very different 
>>>>>> in males and females. Each individual part of the brain is different 
>>>>>> between the sexes - so it is a physical as well as psychological 
>>>>>> difference. She explored many different nuances that really helped me 
>>>>>> as a blind person as well, as I was reading. It gave me new insight 
>>>>>> into different aspects we encounter due to sight loss. I would highly 
>>>>>> recommend it to anyone who has interest in learning more about how 
>>>>>> the brain functions, and it is explored in a way that a non-science 
>>>>>> person like me coulnd understand and enjoy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  This is all certainly another aspect of  the discussion on 
>>>>>> difference between art and crafts thought process and ways of 
>>>>>> "seeing."  Lynda
>>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>    From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:54 PM
>>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first 
>>>>>> real understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and 
>>>>>> energy medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or 
>>>>>> other that five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to 
>>>>>> blurt out emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>>>    Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, 
>>>>>> and we didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>>>    Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>>>> example is that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and 
>>>>>> she noticed that she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter 
>>>>>> Relationship" and he was reading "How to get the most out of your 
>>>>>> Band Saw."
>>>>>>    To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>>>> book,"Drawing on the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if 
>>>>>> one has time to complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing 
>>>>>> things upside down.
>>>>>>    Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym 
>>>>>> says to "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel 
>>>>>> lines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>>>    Patty
>>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>      From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>>>> Luann Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information 
>>>>>> a long time ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much 
>>>>>> easier if I had known these things about the differences between male 
>>>>>> and female brains. And, my goodness, I would have been a much better 
>>>>>> teacher, too. I would have a better understanding of my fellow human 
>>>>>> beings - but at least I do understand a lot more about it now since 
>>>>>> reading this book. It was so enlightening to me and I was telling my 
>>>>>> husband all about it as we would ride along in the truck. One day he 
>>>>>> said to me, "I guess it is like this conversation we are having right 
>>>>>> now in this truck."  This was his insight as I was rapidly sharing so 
>>>>>> much information as he sat quietly listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now 
>>>>>> I understand this conversation here in this truck so much better." 
>>>>>> We laughed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>>>> other. We all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother 
>>>>>> taking an afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches 
>>>>>> and to creat a picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years 
>>>>>> old. Then, it continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour 
>>>>>> each morning, one summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how 
>>>>>> to sew a blouse, skirt, and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. 
>>>>>> We learn from those around us, and how lucky we were to have them in 
>>>>>> our life. What I do today, is an homage to those women in my life so 
>>>>>> long ago. I celebrate them with  every stitch  I make in my art these 
>>>>>> days. And, I say "thank you" to them for giving me the beginnings of 
>>>>>> who I am today, and who I am becoming with each new day and each new 
>>>>>> idea I work with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>        From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>>        To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>        Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time 
>>>>>> to articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>>        I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>>> simultaneously. I am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but 
>>>>>> I will admit, my left brain does like rules and instructions-but my 
>>>>>> Girl Brain is winning! (no put down to Boy Brains, just a family 
>>>>>> joke).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>>        pece out
>>>>>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>          From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>          To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>          Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>>          Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I 
>>>>>> better get back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should 
>>>>>> be a good place for a discussion like this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>>>> between the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a 
>>>>>> crafter can take the exact same materials, but the mind that works 
>>>>>> with them is quite different and the results are quite different. 
>>>>>> It's really about "ideas" and "concepts" and what we are thinking 
>>>>>> about as we work, and where we go with the materials in our process 
>>>>>> of working. In Pittsburgh, PA there is a very fine museum/gallery 
>>>>>> called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, what is done there, 
>>>>>> and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there is CRAFT, 
>>>>>> too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman."  very 
>>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>>> very aware of this, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college 
>>>>>> (Geneva College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across 
>>>>>> disciplines, as I have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in 
>>>>>> English Literature. Because of this background, I was very marketable 
>>>>>> for a good position.  I was able to create multi-discipline courses - 
>>>>>> alway a combination of literature and art, as well as studio courses 
>>>>>> in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a 
>>>>>> job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so many projects 
>>>>>> with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in conferences on 
>>>>>> interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for art 
>>>>>> and literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>>> traveled to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria 
>>>>>> for my students every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and 
>>>>>> out on location every day, and at the end of the month they had a 
>>>>>> show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and students 
>>>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico 
>>>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I 
>>>>>> am now retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get 
>>>>>> a piece done today!
>>>>>>          Lynda
>>>>>>            ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>            From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>            To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>            Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>>            Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new 
>>>>>> member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is 
>>>>>> reading this is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there 
>>>>>> are all sorts of shades in the continuum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went 
>>>>>> off on a tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather 
>>>>>> randomly. They started laughing and saying something akin to how do 
>>>>>> you make it from day to day. And I said you guys are pilots and for 
>>>>>> you to be a good pilot you know and follow rules. That is what they 
>>>>>> pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid to break the rules. No one 
>>>>>> wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>            Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>            303 238 4760
>>>>>>            ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>            http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>            http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>              Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new 
>>>>>> member
>>>>>>              From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>              Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>              To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>              <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              ?
>>>>>>              Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>              So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group 
>>>>>> though, I am like you, I just came on to ask a question about 
>>>>>> something I needed to know and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me 
>>>>>> with my question.  I am furiously working right now (oops, split that 
>>>>>> infinitive!) getting work done for the opening of a two-person 
>>>>>> exhibition at a museum - the show is called _Vision and Revision: 
>>>>>> Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ It is my pottery 
>>>>>> and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It opens 
>>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to 
>>>>>> be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will 
>>>>>> keep on working on the details. The show will appear at two locations 
>>>>>> this year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the 
>>>>>> art works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be 
>>>>>> teaching in the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts 
>>>>>> course at Geneva College. That is where I taught when I was a 
>>>>>> professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll be 
>>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>>> have come from when creating it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to 
>>>>>> speak at a conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two 
>>>>>> sessions, the day before we hang our show. So, I have those 
>>>>>> presentations to be working on every day now, too.  I officially 
>>>>>> retired from teaching 5 1/2 years ago, but I am still very much 
>>>>>> involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              Here is my response to the question you have asked. The 
>>>>>> gap between an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is 
>>>>>> that wide. Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most 
>>>>>> things are very far apart philisophically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              Both work with the hands, and both love working with the 
>>>>>> hands and most have done it all their life.
>>>>>>              Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and 
>>>>>> the satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              While the crafter will usually be satisfied with 
>>>>>> beginning something and knowing where the end will be, the artist 
>>>>>> begins with no notion of where the end will be or even if it will be. 
>>>>>> the crafter has a clearly defined path to the finished product. The 
>>>>>> artist has only some inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find 
>>>>>> them as she works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              The other very big thing I see as a difference between 
>>>>>> them is that the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever 
>>>>>> deviate from those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On 
>>>>>> the other hand, the mature artist has learned that there are no rules 
>>>>>> at all. They may begin in the early stages by learning techniques, 
>>>>>> but eventually with the years of working, the light comes on in her 
>>>>>> brain when she discovers one day - she is free of all rules when 
>>>>>> making art. Everything can be challenged, everything can be changed, 
>>>>>> and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any other 
>>>>>> profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most 
>>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>>> whatsoever for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. 
>>>>>> Free, free, free, at last!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft 
>>>>>> is where the person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but 
>>>>>> is usually content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, 
>>>>>> then moves on to learn something else and does that again with it. 
>>>>>> The artist can take crafts materials (which is what you and I both 
>>>>>> do) and techniques, and then take them far beyond because they will 
>>>>>> combine their techniques and materials with the imagination.  If you 
>>>>>> can teach it, it is usually a craft. If you cannot teach it, it is 
>>>>>> normally art. Art can begin by learning some techniques, or using 
>>>>>> craft materials, but then the person begins to ask the "what if" 
>>>>>> questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in the road 
>>>>>> on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that is 
>>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that 
>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>> will be, or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand 
>>>>>> what I have just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and 
>>>>>> angry with it.  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have 
>>>>>> said. It is that simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on 
>>>>>> change and making new discoveries and each work leads to other 
>>>>>> querstions and more change and more new discoveries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              One can see the difference when you look at work in 
>>>>>> types of environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a 
>>>>>> table full of things that are basically all the same while the other 
>>>>>> will have work on display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided 
>>>>>> where they "fit" and each is very happy with where they are. They are 
>>>>>> different animals, with different ideas, and different end results 
>>>>>> and outcomes. Each one has decided their own path and each one is 
>>>>>> comfortable with the decision she has made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>                From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>                To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>                Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>                Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new 
>>>>>> member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                Hi Folks:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>>>> wisconsin who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium 
>>>>>> is beadwork. I make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed 
>>>>>> beads sewn together with thread. but most of my work is in making 
>>>>>> jewlry, but I have always looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                so, I have a basic question. What is the difference 
>>>>>> between an art and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of 
>>>>>> art but are all arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you 
>>>>>> for getting this list going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of 
>>>>>> seeing in our efforts to bring blind people together who love to both 
>>>>>> create and appreciate the visual arts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>                Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>                To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>>> account info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>              _______________________________________________
>>>>>>              Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>              Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>              To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>>> account info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>>>            Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>            Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>            To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>>> account info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>>>          Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>          Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>          To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>        To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>> URL: 
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140208/2d662e66/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 14:03:46 -0600
>>>>>> From: Laurie Porter <free.spirit1 at live.com>
>>>>>> To: <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16,
>>>>>> Issue 5
>>>>>> Message-ID: <BLU177-DS22E118870BD6FD8E1EEB3AD960 at phx.gbl>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linda:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks so much for this definition of the difference between art and 
>>>>>> craft.
>>>>>> I think I am now truly where I belong, and given this explanation, I 
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> now why I have never been satisfied with just finishing a crafting 
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>> I've always found it to be decidedly limiting in imagination, 
>>>>>> creativity and
>>>>>> origionality. .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been so impressed with the messages I've read on this  list so 
>>>>>> far.
>>>>>> It sounds like there is some wonderful energy on this listand am 
>>>>>> looking
>>>>>> forward  read ing more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>>> From: artists-making-art-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 6:00 AM
>>>>>> To: artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send Artists-making-art mailing list submissions to
>>>>>> artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>>> artists-making-art-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>> artists-making-art-owner at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Artists-making-art digest..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   1. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>>   2. Re: arts or crafts new member (Ann at acunningham.com)
>>>>>>   3. Re: arts or crafts new member (Jewel)
>>>>>>   4. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>>   5. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>>   6. Re: arts or crafts new member (Patricia C. Estes)
>>>>>>   7. Re: arts or crafts new member (Lynda Lambert)
>>>>>>   8. Re: arts or crafts new member (Patricia C. Estes)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 08:03:18 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> Message-ID: <6FA5C73038C44B4D9FE3E40F647EF6C7 at Lambert>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>>> like you,
>>>>>> I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to know and 
>>>>>> was so
>>>>>> glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am furiously 
>>>>>> working
>>>>>> right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done for the 
>>>>>> opening
>>>>>> of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called _Vision 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_  It is 
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>>> opens
>>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to 
>>>>>> be done
>>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>>> working on
>>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I 
>>>>>> taught when
>>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>>> have come
>>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a 
>>>>>> conference
>>>>>> at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the day before we 
>>>>>> hang
>>>>>> our show. So, I have those presentations to be working on every day 
>>>>>> now,
>>>>>> too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years ago, but I am 
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> very much involved in everything but being in the classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>> Some basic
>>>>>> things may be similar between the two, but most things are very far 
>>>>>> apart
>>>>>> philisophically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>>> most have
>>>>>> done it all their life.
>>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>> satisfaction of
>>>>>> the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning something 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>>> where the
>>>>>> end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly defined 
>>>>>> path
>>>>>> to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of 
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from those 
>>>>>> rules,
>>>>>> as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the mature 
>>>>>> artist
>>>>>> has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in the 
>>>>>> early
>>>>>> stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of 
>>>>>> working, the
>>>>>> light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - she is free 
>>>>>> of all
>>>>>> rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, everything can 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any 
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>>> free,
>>>>>> at last!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the 
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually 
>>>>>> content to
>>>>>> learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on to learn
>>>>>> something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>> materials
>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>> ask the
>>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>> will be,
>>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>>> An
>>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>>> simple, and
>>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new 
>>>>>> discoveries and
>>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of 
>>>>>> environments.
>>>>>> One will be setting at a craft show with a table full of things that 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> basically all the same while the other will have work  on display in 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" and each is 
>>>>>> very happy
>>>>>> with where they are. They are different animals, with different 
>>>>>> ideas, and
>>>>>> different end results and outcomes. Each one has decided their own 
>>>>>> path and
>>>>>> each one is comfortable with the decision she has made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>  From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>  To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>  Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi Folks:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin who 
>>>>>> is a
>>>>>> fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I make
>>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>>>> looked
>>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art 
>>>>>> and a
>>>>>> craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>>> arts
>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>>>> bring
>>>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the 
>>>>>> visual
>>>>>> arts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140207/6b11d4ef/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 07:08:33 -0700
>>>>>> From: <Ann at acunningham.com>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>> <20140207070833.c623b2ae39646abf92d04cdf9b47d475.1411573672.wbe at email06.secureserver.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140207/8ed00789/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 11:23:35 -0500
>>>>>> From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>> <CABORmNtm3Wu6C=MnMC68NHdt1eSgDN2T1hyq7dvCWkbROEPn8A at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I absolutely loved this explanation of arts versus crafts. I was also
>>>>>> wondering the difference, so this really makes it clear to me. I do
>>>>>> polymer clay. While I start with an expectation that it will be some
>>>>>> sort of elephant or a horse or whatever, who knows what twists and
>>>>>> turns will happen along the way. By the way, I'm currently working on
>>>>>> a Harry Potter style house elf holding a tray that can hold business
>>>>>> ccards. The house elf is done, but the tray still needs to be
>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/7/14, Ann at acunningham.com <Ann at acunningham.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of 
>>>>>>> shades in
>>>>>>> the continuum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a 
>>>>>>> tangent
>>>>>>> tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They started
>>>>>>> laughing
>>>>>>> and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to day. And 
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know and 
>>>>>>> follow
>>>>>>> rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>> the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>> Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>> 303 238 4760
>>>>>>> ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>> http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>> http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called
>>>>>>>> _Vision and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited
>>>>>>>> vision_  It is my pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a 
>>>>>>>> legally
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> painter. It opens one month from today, and if I stop to think 
>>>>>>>> about what
>>>>>>>> else has to be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but 
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> will keep on working on the details. The show will appear at two
>>>>>>>> locations
>>>>>>>> this year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the 
>>>>>>>> art
>>>>>>>> works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be 
>>>>>>>> teaching in
>>>>>>>> the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at 
>>>>>>>> Geneva
>>>>>>>> College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine arts 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical 
>>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>>> of my work and where the ideas have come from when creating it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be 
>>>>>>>> working on
>>>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>>>>> ago,
>>>>>>>> but I am still very much involved in everything but being in the
>>>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap between 
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are 
>>>>>>>> very far
>>>>>>>> apart philisophically.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>>>> satisfaction
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>>>>> something and
>>>>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>>>>>> defined
>>>>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of
>>>>>>>> possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is that 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the
>>>>>>>> mature
>>>>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin 
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day
>>>>>>>> - she is free of all rules when making art. Everything can be 
>>>>>>>> challenged,
>>>>>>>> everything can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the 
>>>>>>>> artist.
>>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>>> there any other profession in this world where there are no rules? 
>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>> the most exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no 
>>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>>> whatsoever for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. 
>>>>>>>> Free,
>>>>>>>> free, free, at last!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where the
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually 
>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>> to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on to 
>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>> something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and 
>>>>>>>> then take
>>>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>>>> materials
>>>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. 
>>>>>>>> If you
>>>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning 
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>> the "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and 
>>>>>>>> bends in
>>>>>>>> the road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind 
>>>>>>>> set" that
>>>>>>>> is never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> be, or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what 
>>>>>>>> I have
>>>>>>>> just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry 
>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making 
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>> discoveries and each work leads to other querstions and more change 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> more new discoveries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table 
>>>>>>>> full of
>>>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have 
>>>>>>>> work on
>>>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> each is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, 
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one 
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the 
>>>>>>>> decision she
>>>>>>>> has made.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>>>> To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a blind person from wisconsin 
>>>>>>>>> who is a
>>>>>>>>> fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>>>>>> together
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always
>>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an art 
>>>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>>>> craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>>>>>> arts
>>>>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>> going as it is something I've always dreamed of seeing in our 
>>>>>>>>> efforts to
>>>>>>>>> bring blind people together who love to both create and appreciate 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> visual arts.
>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 11:44:39 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> Message-ID: <00EE5DF7276148B7B8D3EE072C8258A0 at Lambert>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get 
>>>>>> back to
>>>>>> the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good place for 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> discussion like this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can take 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is 
>>>>>> a very
>>>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>>>> what is
>>>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>>> College, in
>>>>>> western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I have 
>>>>>> my MFA
>>>>>> in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.  Because of 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> background, I was very marketable for a good position.  I was able to 
>>>>>> create
>>>>>> multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of literature and art, 
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. 
>>>>>> It was
>>>>>> a dream of a job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so 
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> projects with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in 
>>>>>> conferences
>>>>>> on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for 
>>>>>> art and
>>>>>> literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>>> traveled
>>>>>> to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria for my 
>>>>>> students
>>>>>> every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and out on location 
>>>>>> every
>>>>>> day, and at the end of the month they had a show - so much fun.  I 
>>>>>> also did
>>>>>> this with Puerto Rico, and students came to PR with me each spring as 
>>>>>> part
>>>>>> of their course in Puerto Rico Culture - which I have continued to 
>>>>>> visit
>>>>>> every March even though I am now retired. It bacame how we spent our 
>>>>>> spring
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>>>> done
>>>>>> today!
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>  From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a 
>>>>>> tangent
>>>>>> tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They started 
>>>>>> laughing
>>>>>> and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to day. And 
>>>>>> I said
>>>>>> you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know and 
>>>>>> follow
>>>>>> rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid to 
>>>>>> break
>>>>>> the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>  Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>  303 238 4760
>>>>>>  ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>  http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>  http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>    From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>    Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>    To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>    <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    ?
>>>>>>    Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>    So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>>> know and
>>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>>>> _Vision
>>>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ 
>>>>>> It is my
>>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>>> opens
>>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to 
>>>>>> be done
>>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>>> working on
>>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I 
>>>>>> taught when
>>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>>> have come
>>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>>> ago, but
>>>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>>>> between an
>>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>> Some basic
>>>>>> things may be similar between the two, but most things are very far 
>>>>>> apart
>>>>>> philisophically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>>>    Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>> satisfaction
>>>>>> of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>>> something and
>>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>>> where the
>>>>>> end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly defined 
>>>>>> path
>>>>>> to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of 
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is 
>>>>>> that the
>>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from those 
>>>>>> rules,
>>>>>> as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the mature 
>>>>>> artist
>>>>>> has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in the 
>>>>>> early
>>>>>> stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of 
>>>>>> working, the
>>>>>> light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - she is free 
>>>>>> of all
>>>>>> rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, everything can 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there any 
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the most
>>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>>> free,
>>>>>> at last!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually
>>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>> materials
>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>> ask the
>>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>> will be,
>>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>>> An
>>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>>> simple, and
>>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new 
>>>>>> discoveries and
>>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>> and each
>>>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>>> she has
>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>      From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>      To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>      Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Hi Folks:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from wisconsin 
>>>>>> who is
>>>>>> a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>>>> looked
>>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an 
>>>>>> art and
>>>>>> a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>>> arts
>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>>>> bring
>>>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the 
>>>>>> visual
>>>>>> arts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140207/4e3190f0/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 5
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 11:47:54 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> Message-ID: <687BD2626016484AB96E97E715BA11BD at Lambert>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, Jewell, the material does not matter - we can go any way we want 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> with it.  It is the ideas we work with that determine what will 
>>>>>> happen along
>>>>>> the way, plus allowing the medium to lead us - finding that "life of 
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> own" that is there for us - a surprise or two along the way. Your 
>>>>>> project
>>>>>> sounds wonderful.  Lynda
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Jewel" <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:23 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I absolutely loved this explanation of arts versus crafts. I was also
>>>>>>> wondering the difference, so this really makes it clear to me. I do
>>>>>>> polymer clay. While I start with an expectation that it will be some
>>>>>>> sort of elephant or a horse or whatever, who knows what twists and
>>>>>>> turns will happen along the way. By the way, I'm currently working 
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> a Harry Potter style house elf holding a tray that can hold business
>>>>>>> ccards. The house elf is done, but the tray still needs to be
>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/7/14, Ann at acunningham.com <Ann at acunningham.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading this 
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>> torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts of 
>>>>>>>> shades
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the continuum.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a
>>>>>>>> tangent
>>>>>>>> tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They started
>>>>>>>> laughing
>>>>>>>> and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to day. 
>>>>>>>> And I
>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>> you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you know and 
>>>>>>>> follow
>>>>>>>> rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am paid 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>> the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>>> Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>>> 303 238 4760
>>>>>>>> ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>>> http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>>> http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>>>> So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I am 
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is 
>>>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>>>> _Vision and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited
>>>>>>>>> vision_  It is my pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a 
>>>>>>>>> legally
>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>> painter. It opens one month from today, and if I stop to think 
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> else has to be done yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, 
>>>>>>>>> but just
>>>>>>>>> will keep on working on the details. The show will appear at two
>>>>>>>>> locations
>>>>>>>>> this year and will have a video that plays in the gallery with the 
>>>>>>>>> art
>>>>>>>>> works, Braille labeling, and artist's talks. I will even be 
>>>>>>>>> teaching in
>>>>>>>>> the gallery one afternoon, for the Women in the Arts course at 
>>>>>>>>> Geneva
>>>>>>>>> College. That is where I taught when I was a professor of fine 
>>>>>>>>> arts and
>>>>>>>>> humanities, before I retired. I'll be lecturing on the historical
>>>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>>>> of my work and where the ideas have come from when creating it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at a
>>>>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be 
>>>>>>>>> working on
>>>>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 
>>>>>>>>> years ago,
>>>>>>>>> but I am still very much involved in everything but being in the
>>>>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>>>>>>> between an
>>>>>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are 
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>> apart philisophically.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands and 
>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>> have done it all their life.
>>>>>>>>> Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the 
>>>>>>>>> satisfaction
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>>>>>> something and
>>>>>>>>> knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion of 
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly
>>>>>>>>> defined
>>>>>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of
>>>>>>>>> possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is 
>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>> crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> mature
>>>>>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin 
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years 
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one 
>>>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>>>> - she is free of all rules when making art. Everything can be
>>>>>>>>> challenged,
>>>>>>>>> everything can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the 
>>>>>>>>> artist.
>>>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>>>> there any other profession in this world where there are no rules? 
>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>> the most exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no 
>>>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>>>> whatsoever for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say 
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> Free,
>>>>>>>>> free, free, at last!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is usually
>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>> to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on to 
>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>> something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and 
>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>>>>> materials
>>>>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. 
>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning 
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins 
>>>>>>>>> to ask
>>>>>>>>> the "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and 
>>>>>>>>> bends in
>>>>>>>>> the road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind 
>>>>>>>>> set"
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but 
>>>>>>>>> one that
>>>>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> be, or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what 
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> just said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry 
>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>  An "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> simple, and that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making 
>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>> discoveries and each work leads to other querstions and more 
>>>>>>>>> change and
>>>>>>>>> more new discoveries.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table 
>>>>>>>>> full of
>>>>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have 
>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> each is very happy with where they are. They are different 
>>>>>>>>> animals, with
>>>>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one 
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the 
>>>>>>>>> decision she
>>>>>>>>> has made.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>>>>> To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a blind person from wisconsin 
>>>>>>>>>> who is
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>>>>>>> together
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have 
>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an 
>>>>>>>>>> art and
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are all 
>>>>>>>>>> arts
>>>>>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>> going as it is something I've always dreamed of seeing in our 
>>>>>>>>>> efforts
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> bring blind people together who love to both create and 
>>>>>>>>>> appreciate the
>>>>>>>>>> visual arts.
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 6
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 13:26:55 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> Message-ID: <95E84F42EA7F4ADFA9DF888A9D45EA90 at Wellness>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to 
>>>>>> articulate
>>>>>> these distinctions.
>>>>>> I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>>> simultaneously. I am
>>>>>> back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my left 
>>>>>> brain
>>>>>> does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is winning! (no 
>>>>>> put down
>>>>>> to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>> pece out
>>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>  From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better get 
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good place 
>>>>>> for a
>>>>>> discussion like this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line between 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can take 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is 
>>>>>> a very
>>>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>>>> what is
>>>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>>> College, in
>>>>>> western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I have 
>>>>>> my MFA
>>>>>> in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.  Because of 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> background, I was very marketable for a good position.  I was able to 
>>>>>> create
>>>>>> multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of literature and art, 
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, drawing. 
>>>>>> It was
>>>>>> a dream of a job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing so 
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> projects with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in 
>>>>>> conferences
>>>>>> on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for 
>>>>>> art and
>>>>>> literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>>> traveled
>>>>>> to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria for my 
>>>>>> students
>>>>>> every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and out on location 
>>>>>> every
>>>>>> day, and at the end of the month they had a show - so much fun.  I 
>>>>>> also did
>>>>>> this with Puerto Rico, and students came to PR with me each spring as 
>>>>>> part
>>>>>> of their course in Puerto Rico Culture - which I have continued to 
>>>>>> visit
>>>>>> every March even though I am now retired. It bacame how we spent our 
>>>>>> spring
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a piece 
>>>>>> done
>>>>>> today!
>>>>>>  Lynda
>>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>    From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading 
>>>>>> this is
>>>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on a
>>>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>>>> started
>>>>>> laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to 
>>>>>> day.
>>>>>> And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you 
>>>>>> know and
>>>>>> follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am 
>>>>>> paid to
>>>>>> break the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>    Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>    303 238 4760
>>>>>>    ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>    http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>    http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>      From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>      Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>      To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>      <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      ?
>>>>>>      Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>      So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I 
>>>>>> am like
>>>>>> you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed to 
>>>>>> know and
>>>>>> was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>>>> _Vision
>>>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ 
>>>>>> It is my
>>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>>> opens
>>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to 
>>>>>> be done
>>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>>> working on
>>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I 
>>>>>> taught when
>>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>>> have come
>>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak at 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>>> ago, but
>>>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>>>> between an
>>>>>> artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>> Some basic
>>>>>> things may be similar between the two, but most things are very far 
>>>>>> apart
>>>>>> philisophically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>>>      Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the
>>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion 
>>>>>> of where
>>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>>>> defined
>>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of 
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the 
>>>>>> mature
>>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of
>>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - 
>>>>>> she is
>>>>>> free of all rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, 
>>>>>> everything
>>>>>> can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there 
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> other profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the 
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>>> free,
>>>>>> at last!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is where 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>>>> usually
>>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>> materials
>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>> ask the
>>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>> will be,
>>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>>> An
>>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>>> simple, and
>>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new 
>>>>>> discoveries and
>>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>> and each
>>>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>>> she has
>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>        From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>        To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>        Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>        Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Hi Folks:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>>>> wisconsin who
>>>>>> is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is beadwork. I 
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn together 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have always 
>>>>>> looked
>>>>>> upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between an 
>>>>>> art
>>>>>> and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are 
>>>>>> all arts
>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>>>> bring
>>>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the 
>>>>>> visual
>>>>>> arts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>        To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/attachments/20140207/08273715/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 7
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 13:48:48 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> Message-ID: <0C82603A06C14829A1FDF9CA9822F0BB at Lambert>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>>>> Luann
>>>>>> Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a 
>>>>>> long time
>>>>>> ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much easier if I 
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> known these things about the differences between male and female 
>>>>>> brains.
>>>>>> And, my goodness, I would have been a much better teacher, too. I 
>>>>>> would have
>>>>>> a better understanding of my fellow human beings - but at least I do
>>>>>> understand a lot more about it now since reading this book. It was so
>>>>>> enlightening to me and I was telling my husband all about it as we 
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> ride along in the truck. One day he said to me, "I guess it is like 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> conversation we are having right now in this truck."  This was his 
>>>>>> insight
>>>>>> as I was rapidly sharing so much information as he sat quietly
>>>>>> listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now I understand this conversation 
>>>>>> here in
>>>>>> this truck so much better."  We laughed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>>>> other. We
>>>>>> all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother taking an
>>>>>> afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and to creat 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. Then, it
>>>>>> continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each morning, 
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew a blouse, 
>>>>>> skirt,
>>>>>> and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn from those 
>>>>>> around us,
>>>>>> and how lucky we were to have them in our life. What I do today, is 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> homage to those women in my life so long ago. I celebrate them with 
>>>>>> every
>>>>>> stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I say "thank you" to them 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> giving me the beginnings of who I am today, and who I am becoming 
>>>>>> with each
>>>>>> new day and each new idea I work with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>  From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to
>>>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>>  I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>>> simultaneously. I
>>>>>> am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my 
>>>>>> left
>>>>>> brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is winning! 
>>>>>> (no put
>>>>>> down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>>  pece out
>>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>    From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better 
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> for a discussion like this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>>>> between the
>>>>>> two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can take 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is 
>>>>>> a very
>>>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>>>> what is
>>>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva 
>>>>>> College,
>>>>>> in western PA)  where I was free to teach across disciplines, as I 
>>>>>> have my
>>>>>> MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature. 
>>>>>> Because of
>>>>>> this background, I was very marketable for a good position.  I was 
>>>>>> able to
>>>>>> create multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of literature 
>>>>>> and art,
>>>>>> as well as studio courses in painting, fiber arts, printmaking, 
>>>>>> drawing. It
>>>>>> was a dream of a job, working in interdisciplinary studies and doing 
>>>>>> so many
>>>>>> projects with profs in other disciplines.  I was very active in 
>>>>>> conferences
>>>>>> on interdisciplinary studies.   I created an European experience for 
>>>>>> art and
>>>>>> literature students and we lived in Austria every summer and then 
>>>>>> traveled
>>>>>> to other countries. I even had an art exhibition in Austria for my 
>>>>>> students
>>>>>> every summer.  They worked so hard in the studio and out on location 
>>>>>> every
>>>>>> day, and at the end of the month they had a show - so much fun.  I 
>>>>>> also did
>>>>>> this with Puerto Rico, and students came to PR with me each spring as 
>>>>>> part
>>>>>> of their course in Puerto Rico Culture - which I have continued to 
>>>>>> visit
>>>>>> every March even though I am now retired. It bacame how we spent our 
>>>>>> spring
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a 
>>>>>> piece done
>>>>>> today!
>>>>>>    Lynda
>>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>      From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading 
>>>>>> this is
>>>>>> still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all sorts 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off on 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>>>> started
>>>>>> laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to 
>>>>>> day.
>>>>>> And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you 
>>>>>> know and
>>>>>> follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am 
>>>>>> paid to
>>>>>> break the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>      Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>      303 238 4760
>>>>>>      ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>      http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>      http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>        From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>        Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>        To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>        <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        ?
>>>>>>        Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>        So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, I 
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> like you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed 
>>>>>> to know
>>>>>> and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>>>> _Vision
>>>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ 
>>>>>> It is my
>>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>>> opens
>>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to 
>>>>>> be done
>>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>>> working on
>>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I 
>>>>>> taught when
>>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>>> have come
>>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak 
>>>>>> at a
>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>>> ago, but
>>>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap 
>>>>>> between
>>>>>> an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is that wide. 
>>>>>> Some
>>>>>> basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are very 
>>>>>> far
>>>>>> apart philisophically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Both work with the hands, and both love working with the hands 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>>>        Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the
>>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning 
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with no notion 
>>>>>> of where
>>>>>> the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter has a clearly 
>>>>>> defined
>>>>>> path to the finished product. The artist has only some inklings of 
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        The other very big thing I see as a difference between them is 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate from 
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, the 
>>>>>> mature
>>>>>> artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may begin in 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the years of
>>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - 
>>>>>> she is
>>>>>> free of all rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, 
>>>>>> everything
>>>>>> can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there 
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> other profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the 
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>>> free,
>>>>>> at last!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is 
>>>>>> where the
>>>>>> person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>>>> usually
>>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>> materials
>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>> ask the
>>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>> will be,
>>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>>> An
>>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>>> simple, and
>>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new 
>>>>>> discoveries and
>>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>> and each
>>>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>>> she has
>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>          From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>          To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>          Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>          Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Hi Folks:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>>>> wisconsin
>>>>>> who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is 
>>>>>> beadwork. I
>>>>>> make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>>> together
>>>>>> with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have 
>>>>>> always
>>>>>> looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          so, I have a basic question. What is the difference between 
>>>>>> an art
>>>>>> and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but are 
>>>>>> all arts
>>>>>> considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this list 
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts to 
>>>>>> bring
>>>>>> blind people together who love to both create and appreciate the 
>>>>>> visual
>>>>>> arts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>>>          Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>          Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>          To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>        To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 8
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 20:54:43 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Patricia C. Estes" <pece03 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>> <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>> Message-ID: <35AF1D7D30354C14A11963A2A17E797B at Wellness>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linda, the brain is so fascinating-or is it the mind?? My first real
>>>>>> understanding of it (before I studied holistic psychology and energy
>>>>>> medicine) was when our youngest was caught doing something or other 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> five year olds do, and he burst into tears and managed to blurt out
>>>>>> emphatically, "My girl brain made me do it!"
>>>>>> Yes, Luke, I know what you mean! But he didn't go to school, yet, and 
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> didn't have a TV...I think he just *knew*.
>>>>>> Dr. Christian Northrop teaches about the female brain, too. Her 
>>>>>> example is
>>>>>> that she and her, then, husband were flying somewhere and she noticed 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> she was reading "Enriching the Mother/Daughter Relationship" and he 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> reading "How to get the most out of your Band Saw."
>>>>>> To bring art into this, I am sure you are familiar with the 
>>>>>> book,"Drawing on
>>>>>> the Right side of the Brain." Pretty fascinating, if one has time to
>>>>>> complicate one's life by experimenting with drawing things upside 
>>>>>> down.
>>>>>> Energetically, if you want to engage both hemispheres, Brain Gym says 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> "think of an X." And to relax the mind, think of two parallel lines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, I'm taking my parallel lines and heading to bed,
>>>>>> Patty
>>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>  From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>  To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:48 PM
>>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Patricia, I just finished reading the book "The Female Brain" by 
>>>>>> Luann
>>>>>> Brizendine, and OH, HOw I wish I had this wonderful information a 
>>>>>> long time
>>>>>> ago. Raising my brood of children would have been so much easier if I 
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> known these things about the differences between male and female 
>>>>>> brains.
>>>>>> And, my goodness, I would have been a much better teacher, too. I 
>>>>>> would have
>>>>>> a better understanding of my fellow human beings - but at least I do
>>>>>> understand a lot more about it now since reading this book. It was so
>>>>>> enlightening to me and I was telling my husband all about it as we 
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> ride along in the truck. One day he said to me, "I guess it is like 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> conversation we are having right now in this truck."  This was his 
>>>>>> insight
>>>>>> as I was rapidly sharing so much information as he sat quietly
>>>>>> listening...lol  I said, "Yes, now I understand this conversation 
>>>>>> here in
>>>>>> this truck so much better."  We laughed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Of course we are both crafters and artists - one feeds into the 
>>>>>> other. We
>>>>>> all begin somewhere - and for me, it begins with my mother taking an
>>>>>> afternoon to teach me how to do some embroidery stitches and to creat 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> picture on a linen tea towel - I was probably 8 years old. Then, it
>>>>>> continues on with my precious neighbor taking an hour each morning, 
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> summer, to teach me how to read a pattern and how to sew a blouse, 
>>>>>> skirt,
>>>>>> and then an entire outfit - I was about 10. We learn from those 
>>>>>> around us,
>>>>>> and how lucky we were to have them in our life. What I do today, is 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> homage to those women in my life so long ago. I celebrate them with 
>>>>>> every
>>>>>> stitch  I make in my art these days. And, I say "thank you" to them 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> giving me the beginnings of who I am today, and who I am becoming 
>>>>>> with each
>>>>>> new day and each new idea I work with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Louann-Brizendine/e/B001H6RZB8/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1391798400&sr=1-1
>>>>>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>    From: Patricia C. Estes
>>>>>>    To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>    Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Hooray for "outrageous and for all of you for taking the time to
>>>>>> articulate these distinctions.
>>>>>>    I absolutely agree and have been an artist and crafter 
>>>>>> simultaneously. I
>>>>>> am back to my art and love the discovery of it-but I will admit, my 
>>>>>> left
>>>>>> brain does like rules and instructions-but my Girl Brain is winning! 
>>>>>> (no put
>>>>>> down to Boy Brains, just a family joke).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Right on! Right on, Linda!
>>>>>>    pece out
>>>>>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>      From: Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>      To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>      Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 11:44 AM
>>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Well, this is an outrageous conversation, I know. lol   I better 
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> back to the studio before I cause a riot, but this should be a good 
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> for a discussion like this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      That is great, Ann! So true. There is really not a fine line 
>>>>>> between
>>>>>> the two, it is very clear and distinct. And artist or a crafter can 
>>>>>> take the
>>>>>> exact same materials, but the mind that works with them is quite 
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> and the results are quite different. It's really about "ideas" and
>>>>>> "concepts" and what we are thinking about as we work, and where we go 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the materials in our process of working.  In Pittsburgh, PA there is 
>>>>>> a very
>>>>>> fine museum/gallery called the Society of Contemporary Crafts - now, 
>>>>>> what is
>>>>>> done there, and shown there is high art. So there is crafts and there 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> CRAFT, too.  There is the "crafter" and there is the "Craftsman." 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> distinct differences between them - and as a sculptor you would be 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> aware of this, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      I was so fortunate to teach in a small private college (Geneva
>>>>>> College, in western PA)  where I was free to teach across 
>>>>>> disciplines, as I
>>>>>> have my MFA in painting/printmaking, and my MA in English Literature.
>>>>>> Because of this background, I was very marketable for a good 
>>>>>> position. I
>>>>>> was able to create multi-discipline courses - alway a combination of
>>>>>> literature and art, as well as studio courses in painting, fiber 
>>>>>> arts,
>>>>>> printmaking, drawing. It was a dream of a job, working in 
>>>>>> interdisciplinary
>>>>>> studies and doing so many projects with profs in other disciplines. 
>>>>>> I was
>>>>>> very active in conferences on interdisciplinary studies.   I created 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> European experience for art and literature students and we lived in 
>>>>>> Austria
>>>>>> every summer and then traveled to other countries. I even had an art
>>>>>> exhibition in Austria for my students every summer.  They worked so 
>>>>>> hard in
>>>>>> the studio and out on location every day, and at the end of the month 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> had a show - so much fun.  I also did this with Puerto Rico, and 
>>>>>> students
>>>>>> came to PR with me each spring as part of their course in Puerto Rico
>>>>>> Culture - which I have continued to visit every March even though I 
>>>>>> am now
>>>>>> retired. It bacame how we spent our spring time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      OK, back to my studio where I am working my tail off to get a 
>>>>>> piece
>>>>>> done today!
>>>>>>      Lynda
>>>>>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>        From: Ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>        To: An exploration of art by and for blind persons
>>>>>>        Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 9:08 AM
>>>>>>        Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Lynda, Nice answer to craft and art. If someone who is reading 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> is still torn I wouldn't be surprised though since there are all 
>>>>>> sorts of
>>>>>> shades in the continuum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        I was talking to my daughter and a friend one day. I went off 
>>>>>> on a
>>>>>> tangent tangling all sorts of events together rather randomly. They 
>>>>>> started
>>>>>> laughing and saying something akin to how do you make it from day to 
>>>>>> day.
>>>>>> And I said you guys are pilots and for you to be a good pilot you 
>>>>>> know and
>>>>>> follow rules. That is what they pay you for. I am an artist and I am 
>>>>>> paid to
>>>>>> break the rules. No one wants to hear from me if it has already been 
>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        What did you teach before you retired? Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Ann Cunningham
>>>>>>        Tactile Art - a creative way to see the world!
>>>>>>        303 238 4760
>>>>>>        ann at acunningham.com
>>>>>>        http://www.acunningham.com
>>>>>>        http://www.sensationalbooks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>          Subject: Re: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>          From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>          Date: Fri, February 07, 2014 6:03 am
>>>>>>          To: "An exploration of art by and for blind persons"
>>>>>>          <artists-making-art at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          ?
>>>>>>          Hi Laurie,
>>>>>>          So nice to see you here.  I did not start this group though, 
>>>>>> I am
>>>>>> like you, I just came on to ask a question about something I needed 
>>>>>> to know
>>>>>> and was so glad to meet Ann who helped me with my question.  I am 
>>>>>> furiously
>>>>>> working right now (oops, split that infinitive!) getting work done 
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> opening of a two-person exhibition at a museum - the show is called 
>>>>>> _Vision
>>>>>> and Revision:  Two artists with limited sight, not limited vision_ 
>>>>>> It is my
>>>>>> pottery and mixed-media fiber works, and a legally blind painter. It 
>>>>>> opens
>>>>>> one month from today, and if I stop to think about what else has to 
>>>>>> be done
>>>>>> yet, I'll get nervous. So, I won't do that, but just will keep on 
>>>>>> working on
>>>>>> the details. The show will appear at two locations this year and will 
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> video that plays in the gallery with the art works, Braille labeling, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> artist's talks. I will even be teaching in the gallery one afternoon, 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the Women in the Arts course at Geneva College. That is where I 
>>>>>> taught when
>>>>>> I was a professor of fine arts and humanities, before I retired. I'll 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> lecturing on the historical context of my work and where the ideas 
>>>>>> have come
>>>>>> from when creating it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          To make matters even more difficult, I am scheduled to speak 
>>>>>> at a
>>>>>> conference at Slippery Rock University of PA for two sessions, the 
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> before we hang our show. So, I have those presentations to be working 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> every day now, too.  I officially retired from teaching 5 1/2 years 
>>>>>> ago, but
>>>>>> I am still very much involved in everything but being in the 
>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Here is my response to the question you have asked. The gap
>>>>>> between an artist and a crafter is like crossing the ocean, it is 
>>>>>> that wide.
>>>>>> Some basic things may be similar between the two, but most things are 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> far apart philisophically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Both work with the hands, and both love working with the 
>>>>>> hands and
>>>>>> most have done it all their life.
>>>>>>          Both love the materials, and the handling of them, and the
>>>>>> satisfaction of the finished product that comes out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          While the crafter will usually be satisfied with beginning
>>>>>> something and knowing where the end will be, the artist begins with 
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> notion of where the end will be or even if it will be.  the crafter 
>>>>>> has a
>>>>>> clearly defined path to the finished product. The artist has only 
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> inklings of possible outcomes, but has to find them as she works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          The other very big thing I see as a difference between them 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> that the crafter has 'rules" to follow and seldom will ever deviate 
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> those rules, as they are set in stone in her mind. On the other hand, 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> mature artist has learned that there are no rules at all.  They may 
>>>>>> begin in
>>>>>> the early stages by learning techniques, but eventually with the 
>>>>>> years of
>>>>>> working, the light comes on in her brain when she discovers one day - 
>>>>>> she is
>>>>>> free of all rules when making art. Everything can be challenged, 
>>>>>> everything
>>>>>> can be changed, and everything is fair game, for the artist. Is there 
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> other profession in this world where there are no rules? It's the 
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> exhilerating feeling to know that there are absolutely no rules 
>>>>>> whatsoever
>>>>>> for me. Wow, makes me take a deep breath just to say it. Free, free, 
>>>>>> free,
>>>>>> at last!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Laurie, the biggest difference between art and a craft is 
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> the person eventually takes the techniques, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          A crafter seldom takes things to a different level but is 
>>>>>> usually
>>>>>> content to learn something then duplicate it endlessly, then moves on 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> learn something else and does that again with it. The artist can take 
>>>>>> crafts
>>>>>> materials (which is what you and I both do) and techniques, and then 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> them far beyond because they will combine their techniques and 
>>>>>> materials
>>>>>> with the imagination.  If you can teach it, it is usually a craft. If 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> cannot teach it, it is normally art.  Art can begin by learning some
>>>>>> techniques, or using craft materials, but then the person begins to 
>>>>>> ask the
>>>>>> "what if" questions, and takes lots of risks, failures, and bends in 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> road on the way to it becoming a work of art. It is a "mind set" that 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> never satisfied with just the learning of something new, but one that
>>>>>> constantly questions, experiments, and never knows where the "end" 
>>>>>> will be,
>>>>>> or even if it will be.  A "crafter" will never understand what I have 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> said and will most likely be huffing and puffing and angry with it. 
>>>>>> An
>>>>>> "artist" is standing and applauding what I have said. It is that 
>>>>>> simple, and
>>>>>> that complex.  The artist thrives on change and making new 
>>>>>> discoveries and
>>>>>> each work leads to other querstions and more change and more new
>>>>>> discoveries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          One can see the difference when you look at work in types of
>>>>>> environments.  One will be setting at a craft show with a table full 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> things that are basically all the same while the other will have work 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> display in a gallery or museum.  Each has decided where they "fit" 
>>>>>> and each
>>>>>> is very happy with where they are. They are different animals, with
>>>>>> different ideas, and different end results and outcomes. Each one has
>>>>>> decided their own path and each one is comfortable with the decision 
>>>>>> she has
>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>            From: Laurie Porter
>>>>>>            To: Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>            Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:26 PM
>>>>>>            Subject: [Artists-making-art] arts or crafts new member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Hi Folks:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            I?d like to introduce myself. I?m a blind person from 
>>>>>> wisconsin
>>>>>> who is a fledgling and budding beginner artist. my medium is 
>>>>>> beadwork. I
>>>>>> make pictures and tapestries out of tiny little seed beads  sewn 
>>>>>> together
>>>>>> with thread. but most of my work is in making jewlry, but I have 
>>>>>> always
>>>>>> looked upon my beadwork as an art form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            so, I have a basic question. What is the difference 
>>>>>> between an
>>>>>> art and a craft? I do believe that all crafts are forms of art  but 
>>>>>> are all
>>>>>> arts considered crafts? Thanks linda and all of you for getting this 
>>>>>> list
>>>>>> going as it is something I?ve always dreamed of seeing in our efforts 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> bring blind people together who love to both create and appreciate 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> visual arts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>>>            Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>            Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>            To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>>> account
>>>>>> info for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>>>          Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>          Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>          To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/ann%40acunningham.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>        Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>        To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>      Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>      To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/pece03%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>    Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>>  Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> End of Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5
>>>>>> *************************************************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> End of Artists-making-art Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6
>>>>>> *************************************************
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
>>>>>> Artists-making-art at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> Artists-making-art:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Artists-making-art mailing list
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>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/artists-making-art_nfbnet.org
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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