[AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interestedandexcitednfbmember
Daniel Perry
karate at centurylink.net
Thu Jun 7 02:02:41 UTC 2018
you know, I'm glad that I joined up with this list. Not just because I'm excited about the prospect of one day owning one of these fassinating new machines but also because I'm learning so much and getting so many good ideas from other blind people like myself who know more about what goes into these machines than I ever will.
From: Angela Daniel via AutonomousVehicles
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 1:30 PM
To: autonomous Vehicles Discussion
Cc: Angela Daniel
Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interestedandexcitednfbmember
I totally share your enthusiasm. Can't wait to own my own car. Or be a part of a community car that provide service to my family. For sure autonomous vehicles will change everything. Policing, insurance, and no more need for parking lots because the cars will constantly be picking up or dropping off the next person. So happy to be a member of NFB who are on the forefront of accessibility issues regarding the blind. We are moving from a Transportation era, to a people moving era.
Best regards
Angela
On Jun 6, 2018 12:52 PM, "Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles" <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org> wrote:
Absolutely yes! Accessibility is essential across the spectrum.
_don
On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:45 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org> wrote:
Something that should be kept in mind is that the interface
should be able to be voice controlled by the blind person.
Ali
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles
<autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
To: autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 10:25:24 -0600
Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very
interestedandexcitednfbmember
Yes. A blind individual could not address a situation visually.
However, if the car were narrating things that it was 'seeing'
and how it
was making decisions, the driver would have more information
about what is
happening. This information might be somewhat analogous to what a
sighed
driver would have -- sort of like what we get with a screen
reader for your
computer. In some circumstances, I can imagine a self-driving
car would
require decisions to be made by the driver, and if the car was
continually
updating the driver with relevant information he or she could
respond and
command the car, rather than expecting that the car is making all
the
decisions. (I would expect that there would be settings that
allow the car
to be more or less `chatty` in this regard. Some individuals
would want
lots of information, while others would want a functional minimum
of
information from the car.
For example, if you are driving to work in the morning and
encounter heavy
traffic or a stoppage, the car could tell you this and ask for
your
decision on whether to continue the same route, or offer one of
several
alternative routes. You would have to tell the car what to do.
Similarly, in the event of any accident of any sort, the car
would have to
be able to tell the driver what has happened and advise the
driver on
options, as well as automatically contacting relevant
authorities.
What I am getting at, is the idea that no matter who is
`driving,` the
human will still have to be in the loop somehow, and to be a
responsible
agent in some circumstances. So far this has not been emphasized
in the
development of autonomous vehicles, but I will say that I expect
this to
become an important feature in the future.
Designing an interface that permits these things will absolutely
require
active participation from drivers who are blind or
visually-impaired.
_don
​
​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Winiecki, Ed.D., Ph.D.
*Professor of Ethics & Morality in Professional Practice*
Boise State University, College of Engineering
E-mail: dwiniecki at boisestate.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~d​
On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:02 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <
autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org> wrote:
If the systems were ever to require the driver to take control,
this would be impossible for a blind person to safely do.
Ali
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles
<autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
To: autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 08:25:44 -0600
Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
andexcitednfbmember
As a faculty member in a College of Engineering, my primary
responsibilities are in the areas of ethics and morality in
engineering.
Autonomous vehicles are a principal interest of mine.
All of the crashes of autonomous vehicles that have been
publicized, have
been as a result of failures not of single systems, but in the
intersection
of systems in the vehicles. In the case of the Uber crash in
Arizona that
killed a cyclist/pedestrian, the LIDAR (laser radar) 'saw' the
person early
enough to brake and to steer around her. However, the system
that 'makes
sense of' what the LIDAR detects, was switched to a mode that
delayed such
a reaction -- it was in a very conservative mode where the car's
systems
would have had to be closer to 100% certain of what was being
detected by
the LIDAR before automatically responding.
In the TESLA crashes, early analysis of the cars' black-boxes
indicates
that systems were attempting to alert the drivers to take
control
because
the cars' systems were detecting situations that they were not
designed to
handle. In these cases, the handoff of control from car to human
driver was
missed.
Looking outside the cars and their technology, Arizona has
established the
most lax regulation on testing of autonomous vehicles, of any
state that
allows such testing. It was as a side-effect of this lax
regulation that
Uber was able to get away with only one safety-driver in the
vehicle.
Other states that allow testing of autonomous vehicles on public
roadways
require two safety-drivers (one behind the wheel ready to take
control, and
one who monitors the car's systems in real time). Uber's history
of
business practices that take large risks may have been a
contributing
factor somehow.
In the cases of Tesla crashes, we know that marketing
information
has
heavily hyped what Tesla calls its 'auto pilot' autonomous
driving mode.
There have even been television commercials with Elon Musk
driving/riding a
car with his hands out the window, yelling and boasting of its
autonomous
capabilities. Compare this with the safety information that
comes
with the
cars that cautions drivers to not treat 'auto pilot' as a safe
autonomous
mode.
A lot of what we are seeing with autonomous vehicles has to do
with the
fact that the companies and consumers are not necessarily
prepared to deal
with the intersection of so many technical and social systems
that we are
suddenly faced with. In fact, no engineering innovation is ever
'only
technical'. Every engineering innovation pushes small or large
impacts on
us in terms of how we know and behave in the world. Those who
adapt to the
new limits of technologies are able to benefit, but those who do
not
understand those limits will run the risk of the failure of
these
multiple
systems.
There is absolutely no question in my mind that successful
development in
the technologies of autonomous vehicles will occur. However,
successful
social adaptation may not be so clearly possible for everyone.
This is why
every stakeholder group -- including and perhaps especially
those
with
visual impairments that prevent them from getting a driver's
license
currently -- has to be active in the latter. This listserv is a
touchpoint
for all of us who are stakeholders in this particular way. Your
involvement locally, in your State policy-making branches, and
even more
broadly, is very needed!
_don
On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 7:50 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <
autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org> wrote:
Probably just because I'm extremely afraid of accidents LOL.
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Perry via AutonomousVehicles
<autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
To: "autonomous Vehicles Discussion"
<autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 08:18:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
and excitednfbmember
me too, but I've been told not to wurry since everyone seems to
be behind
them. I think the crashes are all just a part of the process
morbid as that
sounds.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ali via AutonomousVehicles"
<autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:13 PM
To: "autonomous Vehicles Discussion"
<autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
Cc: "Ali" <aliherky at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
and excited
nfbmember
I have high hopes for the future, but right now am too worried
about the
multiple crashes that have been had.
Ali
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Perry via AutonomousVehicles
<autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
To: <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 14:59:30 -0400
Subject: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested and
excited
nfbmember
Hello everyone, my name is Daniel Perry and I found this list
and
immediately signed up because I'm extremely excited about the
prospect of
autonomous vehicles being a reality as well as we the totally
blind being
able to use them. I can't wait to own one as soon as they're
afordable
enough for your average blind person to purchase and own. I'll
be very
excited to see how Waymo progresses after its launch later on
this year.
What's the latest in our efforts to make these vehicles
accessible to the
blind? have a wonderful day and I look forward to hearing from
you soon.
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