[Blind-international-students] introducing myself and comments on your discussion

[David Andrews]

Jan:

I of course realize that not all NFB members agree with 
everything.  I have run NFBNET stuff since mid 1991, worked at the 
National Center, and been a member for over 33 years.  I don't agree 
with everything, but I am circumspect in how I handle it and what I 
do about it.  I do agree with much more than I disagree with, I 
figure that if I find myself disagreeing with over half, then I 
quietly need to go away.

Unfortunately, we can't be all things to all people.  We first have 
to be the best and strongest organization we can -- this will 
ultimately help all blind people the most.

Dave

At 07:31 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>I think that there is one thing that you may not realize.
>
>Lots of nfb members (both international and American)
>don't "Always" agree with the NFB.
>This is just as it is in political parties.
>Does that make us "not supporting" because we don't agree with a stand
>that the nfb took?
>I do agree that if people receive assistance from the NFB, that they
>should uphold their ideals.
>However, there is a line between support and compromising one's values.
>    Yes, I agree that when someone receives assistance, there should be
>an unspoken support for what the organization stands for: as a whole.
>But, I also agree that one not need feel obligated to support each and
>every stance that the NFB has: just because of a scholarship or
>another type of assistance.
>Gratitude seems to be an interesting and fluid concept.
>It probably is quite difficult to weed out those who just "want a hand out."
>
>
>
>On 8/8/10, Guido Corona <guidoc at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> > Uhrn.... I am not sure the issue of non tactily identifiable currency is
> > such a particular problem.  I have lived in North America for 35 years...
> > first in Canada, then in US.
> >
> > During all this time, I have been shortchanged only twice, by taxi drivers
> > in both cases.  In one of these cases, my sighted wife was present, and she
> > did not catch the swindle either.
> >
> > I have found that, universaly, kindly asking the other party to tell me
> > which bills have what value, solves all currency identification issues.  I
> > then fold bills according to their values, and place them in 4 different
> > slots in my billfold... And no, I never make mistakes.
> >
> > And no, having to shop every few years for a billfold with enough slots for
> > my liking is not something that I deem to be a violation of my basic uman
> > rights under the US Declaration Of Independence, US Constitution, ADA,
> > Section 504, or otherwise.
> >
> > Please note that Canada uses embossing for tactile identification of
> > currency... Works splendidly... until a bill is a few months old, after
> > which markings become flat and unreadable.
> >
> > Sometimes there are simple and remarkably low impact/cost
> > socialization-based workarounds for certain accessibility problems.  I can
> > only praise NFB's pragmatic approach to the entire issue.
> >
> > Finally, in the current context, raising the Blind Drivers 
> Challange is what
> > we call a Red herring... or a distracting argument, extraneous from the
> > discussion at hand. Perhaps it's an interesting topic to debate by itself,
> > but it does not add any value to the current debate on currency 
> recognition.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > g
> >
> > Guido D. Corona
> > Email: guidoc at austin.rr.com
> > Home office: (512) 996-9187
> > Mobile: (512) 466-1322
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blind-international-students-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > [mailto:blind-international-students-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol
> > Bhatia
> > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 6:21 PM
> > To: Blind International Students Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students] introducing myself and comments
> > on your discussion
> >
> > Hello Dave,
> > Let me clarify myself. I never thought that NFB is against bringing
> > identifiable currency, but where I have a problem is 
> its     priorities. For
> > me personally identifiable currency is far more important than the Blind
> > Driver Challenge and far more realistic in achieving then a car 
> that a blind
> > person can drive.
> >
> > You are right that groups such as the NFB and ACB may not know what people
> > with disabilities need, but the advantage that groups such as NFB and ACB
> > can bring by participating in various disability coalitions is 
> that they can
> > represent the needs of blind people who make up a large 
> population of people
> > with disabilities.
> >
> > Finally I never ment to say that all blind people should work together, but
> > the two major blind organizations should find more of a common 
> ground and as
> > I stated the members of each respective organizations have greater
> > differences with each other then the two major organizations have with each
> > other. So the organization back and forth seems silly and does not seem to
> > accomplish anything for blind citizens. True we have political parties in
> > this country just as they do in my country, however, it is unfortunate but
> > blind people can not aford to have the luxury of being divided like
> > Democrats and Republicans because our challenges our to great and our
> > community is to small.
> >
> > Having said all that, I commend the NFB on its work of making a difference
> > for blind people around the world including myself. I was fortunate to
> > attend the NFB convention for the first time on a scholarship and I was
> > impressed in being around so many blind people. So I do commend NFB on its
> > work but I do have some differences like any person should have with any
> > organization. So please understand that I am not trying to have it both
> > ways, but simply stating some of my differences. I invite you to 
> participate
> > in the international students conference call next Sunday at 2:00 p.m.
> > eastern time.
> > Also to all members please  forgive my grammar mistakes in my previous
> > email.
> >
> > Anmol
> >
> >
> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
> > among flowers.
> > Hellen Keller
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 8/8/10, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students] introducing myself and
> > comments on your discussion
> >> To: "Blind International Students Mailing List"
> > <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 4:44 PM
> >> Hi Anmol:
> >>
> >> I have been following this discussion with interest.
> >> There have been lots of good ideas.  However, I also
> >> feel like some people here want to have it both ways -- as
> >> we would say in America.  That is they want to benefit
> >> from an association with the NFB, and they want to use what
> >> the NFB has to offer, but they are not willing to support
> >> the NFB to they extent that they receive support.
> >>
> >> I apologize if I offend anyone -- but I just want to be
> >> honest here.
> >>
> >> Below I think you misrepresent some NFB positions.  We
> >> are not strongly opposed to identifiable currency, as you
> >> say, but we don't consider it to be our highest
> >> priority.  We also don't think many of the proposed
> >> systems will work, or are likely to be adopted.
> >>
> >> You are right that we traditionally have not been very
> >> active in coalitions.  In large part this is because we
> >> do not know what other disabled people need, and others do
> >> not know what blind persons want and need.  We can not
> >> represent them -- and they can not represent us.  This
> >> is not to say that we don't participate in coalitions, such
> >> as the Reading Rights Coalition among others.
> >>
> >> Finally you say all blind people should work together
> >> ...  These are nice words, but unrealistic.  In
> >> your country, is there only one political party?  Why
> >> doesn't everybody just work together, after all, don't they
> >> want the same thing.
> >>
> >> It is only natural that people will disagree, think things
> >> should be done in different ways, want different people to
> >> be in charge etc.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> At 04:37 PM 8/3/2010, you wrote:
> >> > Hello Jan,
> >> > I do believe in the basic philosophy of the NFB of
> >> braille education, independence, the right of blind
> >> individuals to teach other blind people and defeating the
> >> false immage and attitudes that sighted society holds
> >> towards blindness. However, my main issue with NFB has been
> >> that it sometimes goes to far. For example, I have yet to
> >> understand why NFB is so opposed to legislation which would
> >> make US currency excessable to the blind. Managing one's
> >> finances is a fundamental right of all Americans and even
> >> though technology does exist which can read papper currency
> >> and one can should find their method of managing their
> >> money, a blind are forced to depend on the honesty of
> >> sighted individuals to know how much money they have and
> >> this itself goes against the NFB philosophy  of
> >> independence. Also I do have some disagreement with NFB
> >> philosophy of total independence. I am a farely independ
> >> person but I think that at times it is ok to ask for help.
> >> As a student
> >> >  at the Arkansas School for the Blind I was
> >> thought by my hoste mother who was blind and by my teachers
> >> that it is ok to ask for help and as a adult I have found
> >> this to be so true. I consider myself to be a independent
> >> and confident blind adult but I still ask for help when I
> >> need to. Another good point you bring up is NFB does not
> >> seem to work with other disability organizations. Last week
> >> when attending the National Council on Disability Summit I
> >> was surprised not to see any officials  from NFB or
> >> ACB. This is not to say they were not there. There were alot
> >> of people who I did not meet. So someone from the NFB and
> >> ACB may have been there and I just did not know about it.
> >> However, I think both NFB and ACB should strive to work with
> >> any or all blindness related or disability organization.
> >> Blind people can only be put on back burner if we let
> >> ourselves do so and blind community is a large enough
> >> community within the disability community that if we unify
> >> >  and assert ourselves we can be the most powerful
> >> disabled comunity. This brings me to another point! I think
> >> the infighting between the NFB and ACB is really silly! Both
> >> organizations have alot of value to contribute for the blind
> >> community and frankly it seems to me that the differences
> >> between is not that much! It seems to me that there is more
> >> difference within the membership of each organization then
> >> there is between the organizations. Another words members of
> >> NFB and ACB have differences with each other more then NFB
> >> and ACB have with each other.Some have compared us to
> >> Democrats and Republicans, fair  comparison but the
> >> blind community is to small and our challenges to great for
> >> us to be Democrats and Republicans. As you know by now I am
> >> a person with strong oppinions and not afraid to share
> >> them  regardless of who I piss off or anger. lol I
> >> may  never be  invited to another NFB convention!
> >> lol
> >> > To answer your question about blindness organizations
> >> in other countries, on MIUSA's webcite there is a link which
> >> list all the disability organizations around the world. You
> >> can select which country or disability or both you wish to
> >> view and a list should appear.
> >>

                         David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com
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