[Blind-international-students] introducing myself and comments on your discussion

[David Andrews]

Well, the answer to your first question is it depends.  It depends on 
how you make your point.  If you say you are a member, and you 
publicly go out and work against us in something, then there is going 
to be trouble.  You should remember that NFB is a political 
organization.  By that I mean that we are composed of individuals, 
and we cooperate for common goals.  Just having an idea in any 
organization isn't enough.  You need to work for it, and/or get 
others to work on your behalf.  The people in the organization with 
influence and power are those who can bring people to the table to 
get things done.  So the answer to your  second question is probably 
no.  Making a good point isn't enough.  Be realistic, there are lots 
of bright people on the NFB Board, the National Center staff, and 
elsewhere.  I doubt I will think of something and write DR. Maurer a 
letter, and he will go oh boy, that Andrews is right -- let's change 
our policy.  We didn't think of that.

You can bring resolutions to the national convention, which is where 
our policies are set.  So in that sense, your ideas might get 
adopted.  But, they will have a better chance if you are somebody who 
has worked hard, who people know, and who has some position of 
respect.  That is the reality in any political organization, not just the NFB.

You say some people think NFB members are closed minded.  Yes, some 
of us may be, some not, just like any other cross section of 
humanity.  We do have a shared body of experience, we have read many 
of the same things, we are influenced by the same people, and we come 
to many of the same conclusions.  People who are against us 
characterize our behavior in a negative way, to make their 
points.  That is one view, but not the only one.  We all aren't rigid 
or closed-minded because we come to many of the same conclusions in 
our own individual ways.

Dave



At 07:52 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>Or,
>If I find myself disagreeing with something,
>maybe I can help people see the value in my argument and maybe change
>their view about it.
>
>Some people have the view that nfb members are quite closed minded
>(I am not talking about anyone on the list -- it is what I have heard
>from blind people from my state)
>
>Here is my question to you:
>
>*IF, we as nfb members voice our disagreement on a certain subject,
>does it make us a traitor or less committed to the overall cause of NFB?
>And,
>*If we make a valid point, would NFB be willing to recognize that
>point and .... possibly modify their stance?
>Just wondering.
>
>
>On 8/8/10, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > You say that you have been short changed twice which is twice to 
> many times.
> > Know person blind or not should not be short changed when pratically the US
> > currency can be made identifiable.
> > I brought up the arguement of blind driver challenge in the 
> context of NFB's
> > priorities arguing that the fighting for identifiable currency is far more
> > practicable and realistic in achieving then a blind driver challenge,
> > therefore, it would make alot more sense if NFB would focus on the issue of
> > identifiable currency then a car that frankly I do not realisticly see it
> > coming anytime soon. In addition, as a blind person it is far 
> more important
> > to be able to manage my money independently then a car that frankly I can
> > not affordable. So know my arguement was not a Red herring arguement due to
> > the context that it was used and remember I was arguing with Daves point
> > about NFB's not being active on the currency issue.
> >
> > Anmol
> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
> > among flowers.
> > Hellen Keller
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Guido Corona <guidoc at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Guido Corona <guidoc at austin.rr.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students] introducing myself and
> >> comments on your discussion
> >> To: "'Blind International Students Mailing List'"
> >> <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 7:10 PM
> >> Uhrn.... I am not sure the issue of
> >> non tactily identifiable currency is
> >> such a particular problem.  I have lived in North
> >> America for 35 years...
> >> first in Canada, then in US.
> >>
> >> During all this time, I have been shortchanged only twice,
> >> by taxi drivers
> >> in both cases.  In one of these cases, my sighted wife
> >> was present, and she
> >> did not catch the swindle either.
> >>
> >> I have found that, universaly, kindly asking the other
> >> party to tell me
> >> which bills have what value, solves all currency
> >> identification issues.  I
> >> then fold bills according to their values, and place them
> >> in 4 different
> >> slots in my billfold... And no, I never make mistakes.
> >>
> >> And no, having to shop every few years for a billfold with
> >> enough slots for
> >> my liking is not something that I deem to be a violation of
> >> my basic uman
> >> rights under the US Declaration Of Independence, US
> >> Constitution, ADA,
> >> Section 504, or otherwise.
> >>
> >> Please note that Canada uses embossing for tactile
> >> identification of
> >> currency... Works splendidly... until a bill is a few
> >> months old, after
> >> which markings become flat and unreadable.
> >>
> >> Sometimes there are simple and remarkably low impact/cost
> >> socialization-based workarounds for certain accessibility
> >> problems.  I can
> >> only praise NFB's pragmatic approach to the entire issue.
> >>
> >> Finally, in the current context, raising the Blind Drivers
> >> Challange is what
> >> we call a Red herring... or a distracting argument,
> >> extraneous from the
> >> discussion at hand. Perhaps it's an interesting topic to
> >> debate by itself,
> >> but it does not add any value to the current debate on
> >> currency recognition.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> g
> >>
> >> Guido D. Corona
> >> Email: guidoc at austin.rr.com
> >> Home office: (512) 996-9187
> >> Mobile: (512) 466-1322
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: blind-international-students-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >> [mailto:blind-international-students-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Anmol
> >> Bhatia
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 6:21 PM
> >> To: Blind International Students Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students] introducing
> >> myself and comments
> >> on your discussion
> >>
> >> Hello Dave,
> >> Let me clarify myself. I never thought that NFB is against
> >> bringing
> >> identifiable currency, but where I have a problem is
> >> its     priorities. For
> >> me personally identifiable currency is far more important
> >> than the Blind
> >> Driver Challenge and far more realistic in achieving then a
> >> car that a blind
> >> person can drive.
> >>
> >> You are right that groups such as the NFB and ACB may not
> >> know what people
> >> with disabilities need, but the advantage that groups such
> >> as NFB and ACB
> >> can bring by participating in various disability coalitions
> >> is that they can
> >> represent the needs of blind people who make up a large
> >> population of people
> >> with disabilities.
> >>
> >> Finally I never ment to say that all blind people should
> >> work together, but
> >> the two major blind organizations should find more of a
> >> common ground and as
> >> I stated the members of each respective organizations have
> >> greater
> >> differences with each other then the two major
> >> organizations have with each
> >> other. So the organization back and forth seems silly and
> >> does not seem to
> >> accomplish anything for blind citizens. True we have
> >> political parties in
> >> this country just as they do in my country, however, it is
> >> unfortunate but
> >> blind people can not aford to have the luxury of being
> >> divided like
> >> Democrats and Republicans because our challenges our to
> >> great and our
> >> community is to small.
> >>
> >> Having said all that, I commend the NFB on its work of
> >> making a difference
> >> for blind people around the world including myself. I was
> >> fortunate to
> >> attend the NFB convention for the first time on a
> >> scholarship and I was
> >> impressed in being around so many blind people. So I do
> >> commend NFB on its
> >> work but I do have some differences like any person should
> >> have with any
> >> organization. So please understand that I am not trying to
> >> have it both
> >> ways, but simply stating some of my differences. I invite
> >> you to participate
> >> in the international students conference call next Sunday
> >> at 2:00 p.m.
> >> eastern time.
> >> Also to all members please  forgive my grammar
> >> mistakes in my previous
> >> email.
> >>
> >> Anmol
> >>
> >>
> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
> >> sad. Perhaps
> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
> >> vague, like a breeze
> >> among flowers.
> >> Hellen Keller
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Sun, 8/8/10, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students]
> >> introducing myself and
> >> comments on your discussion
> >> > To: "Blind International Students Mailing List"
> >> <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> > Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 4:44 PM
> >> > Hi Anmol:
> >> >
> >> > I have been following this discussion with
> >> interest.
> >> > There have been lots of good ideas.  However, I also
> >> > feel like some people here want to have it both ways
> >> -- as
> >> > we would say in America.  That is they want to
> >> benefit
> >> > from an association with the NFB, and they want to use
> >> what
> >> > the NFB has to offer, but they are not willing to
> >> support
> >> > the NFB to they extent that they receive support.
> >> >
> >> > I apologize if I offend anyone -- but I just want to
> >> be
> >> > honest here.
> >> >
> >> > Below I think you misrepresent some NFB positions.
> >> We
> >> > are not strongly opposed to identifiable currency, as
> >> you
> >> > say, but we don't consider it to be our highest
> >> > priority.  We also don't think many of the proposed
> >> > systems will work, or are likely to be adopted.
> >> >
> >> > You are right that we traditionally have not been
> >> very
> >> > active in coalitions.  In large part this is because
> >> we
> >> > do not know what other disabled people need, and
> >> others do
> >> > not know what blind persons want and need.  We can
> >> not
> >> > represent them -- and they can not represent us.
> >> This
> >> > is not to say that we don't participate in coalitions,
> >> such
> >> > as the Reading Rights Coalition among others.
> >> >
> >> > Finally you say all blind people should work together
> >> > ...  These are nice words, but unrealistic.  In
> >> > your country, is there only one political party?
> >> Why
> >> > doesn't everybody just work together, after all, don't
> >> they
> >> > want the same thing.
> >> >
> >> > It is only natural that people will disagree, think
> >> things
> >> > should be done in different ways, want different
> >> people to
> >> > be in charge etc.
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> >
> >> > At 04:37 PM 8/3/2010, you wrote:
> >> > > Hello Jan,
> >> > > I do believe in the basic philosophy of the NFB
> >> of
> >> > braille education, independence, the right of blind
> >> > individuals to teach other blind people and defeating
> >> the
> >> > false immage and attitudes that sighted society holds
> >> > towards blindness. However, my main issue with NFB has
> >> been
> >> > that it sometimes goes to far. For example, I have yet
> >> to
> >> > understand why NFB is so opposed to legislation which
> >> would
> >> > make US currency excessable to the blind. Managing
> >> one's
> >> > finances is a fundamental right of all Americans and
> >> even
> >> > though technology does exist which can read papper
> >> currency
> >> > and one can should find their method of managing
> >> their
> >> > money, a blind are forced to depend on the honesty of
> >> > sighted individuals to know how much money they have
> >> and
> >> > this itself goes against the NFB philosophy  of
> >> > independence. Also I do have some disagreement with
> >> NFB
> >> > philosophy of total independence. I am a farely
> >> independ
> >> > person but I think that at times it is ok to ask for
> >> help.
> >> > As a student
> >> > >  at the Arkansas School for the Blind I was
> >> > thought by my hoste mother who was blind and by my
> >> teachers
> >> > that it is ok to ask for help and as a adult I have
> >> found
> >> > this to be so true. I consider myself to be a
> >> independent
> >> > and confident blind adult but I still ask for help
> >> when I
> >> > need to. Another good point you bring up is NFB does
> >> not
> >> > seem to work with other disability organizations. Last
> >> week
> >> > when attending the National Council on Disability
> >> Summit I
> >> > was surprised not to see any officials  from NFB or
> >> > ACB. This is not to say they were not there. There
> >> were alot
> >> > of people who I did not meet. So someone from the NFB
> >> and
> >> > ACB may have been there and I just did not know about
> >> it.
> >> > However, I think both NFB and ACB should strive to
> >> work with
> >> > any or all blindness related or disability
> >> organization.
> >> > Blind people can only be put on back burner if we let
> >> > ourselves do so and blind community is a large enough
> >> > community within the disability community that if we
> >> unify
> >> > >  and assert ourselves we can be the most
> >> powerful
> >> > disabled comunity. This brings me to another point! I
> >> think
> >> > the infighting between the NFB and ACB is really
> >> silly! Both
> >> > organizations have alot of value to contribute for the
> >> blind
> >> > community and frankly it seems to me that the
> >> differences
> >> > between is not that much! It seems to me that there is
> >> more
> >> > difference within the membership of each organization
> >> then
> >> > there is between the organizations. Another words
> >> members of
> >> > NFB and ACB have differences with each other more then
> >> NFB
> >> > and ACB have with each other.Some have compared us to
> >> > Democrats and Republicans, fair  comparison but the
> >> > blind community is to small and our challenges to
> >> great for
> >> > us to be Democrats and Republicans. As you know by now
> >> I am
> >> > a person with strong oppinions and not afraid to
> >> share
> >> > them  regardless of who I piss off or anger. lol I
> >> > may  never be  invited to another NFB convention!
> >> > lol
> >> > > To answer your question about blindness
> >> organizations
> >> > in other countries, on MIUSA's webcite there is a link
> >> which
> >> > list all the disability organizations around the
> >> world. You
> >> > can select which country or disability or both you
> >> wish to
> >> > view and a list should appear.

                         David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com
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