[Blind-rollers] seatbelts

Tue May 11 19:11:49 UTC 2010

Becky,

You have some extremely valid points there.  People with disabilities
can often allow their pride to overcome their good sense.  However, as
your example illustrates, so can the able-bodied.  To me, having an
equal playing field means having the basic right to be as idiotic as
the able-bodied can be.  That doesn't mean we should be, however.  I
admire you for assessing your risk and acting accordingly.
I understand your sarcasm completely and don't take it personally in
the slightest.  There are a number of radical elements in the
movement, many of which I deal with on a regular basis; a healthy dose
of sarcasm can pull us up short and make us reconsider our positions
*smile*
I'd like to address a couple of things that were brought to my
attention offlist about this topic.  Several people said that
careless/lazy/untrained drivers can often use the fact that wheelchair
users refused the seatbelt as an excuse for not using proper
procedures.  As a general question, how prevalent do you think this
sort of action is? For those of you who support the law, is the
negligence on the part of drivers most of the reason you do support
it?

This list has been rather quiet, so it's good to see some discussion.
Courtney

On 5/11/10, Becky Frankeberger <b.butterfly at comcast.net> wrote:
> So the abled bodied gal sitting across the isle from me had the choice
> before that van stopped suddenly to use her seatbelt.  She flew further then
> I did.  She bloodied her knee.  I was shaken but fine as I said I held on
> for dear life to my secured chair. I am to fragil to not be careful.  But
> honestly that gal was bleeding needlessly.  Pride not good sense ruled.  Not
> assessing the risk just stupid pride. Not adult good sense, but childish
> pride.  Sitting on that floor she sure did not look like a first class
> citizen as everyone babied her. I felt as stupid as she looked as I forgot
> to ask the driver for a seat belt.  Now wasn't I being second class.  First
> class people go the extra mile and not cross in the middle of the street
> like the second class sighted do.  First class people are not fond of being
> projectiles, nor sitting on floors of busses bleeding, like the second class
> sighted do. Oh hey like leaving a baby in an nonsecured stroller.  That was
> fun watching the baby fly down the isle of the buss.  Kind of a good lesson
> to me on my wheels, don't you think?
>
> Sorry feeling sarcastic.
>
> I absolutely agree with your point about paternalism. But not balancing that
> with good sense is just second class.
> I am not not saying you don't have good sense.  I am reacting to the
> radicalism I have seen in some disabled, which to me is second class. There
> is indeed a fine line.
>
> Becky and Jake
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Courtney Stover
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 3:14 PM
> To: Blind wheelchair users list
> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] seatbelts
>
> Hi:
>
> I may very well be in the minority here, but I agree with the former
> member of the disability council.  We, as disabled individuals, should
> have the right to assess our risk and make a decision about restraints
> based on that assessment.  Having non-disabled people assessing those
> risks does lead to paternalism, and we deal with enough of that as it
> is.  I can certainly understand the concerns of caregivers about
> safety, but often, our caregivers themselves can exhibit too much
> overprotectiveness.  And because we are already considered childlike
> by so many of the powers that be, they tend to ascent to whatever
> parents or others think best.
> Courtney
>
> On 5/10/10, Becky Frankeberger <b.butterfly at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Do you all use seatbelts?  I sure do.  Do you make sure it is a four point
>> tie down?  I sure do as someone forgot and I bounced backwards nearly
>> tipping me backwards.  Do you do a lap and shoulder belt?  I do as I had
> to
>> hold on for dear life as the van stopped kind of suddenly. Or is equal
>> treatment more important then safety.  If my able bodied counterparts do
> not
>> have to use seatbelts or four point tie downs why should I, according to
> Lex
>> in the article..
>>
>> What do you all think of "equal treatment.
>>
>> Becky and Jake
>>
>> Bus seat belt laws mostly exclude wheelchairs
>> By JOHN SEEWER
>> ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
>> TOLEDO, Ohio -- Lonnie Acton's lifeless body sat in a wheelchair fastened
> to
>> the
>> floor of a mangled minibus. No shoulder or lap belt protected him.
>> Those restraints, attached to the bus, are specially made to secure
>> passengers in
>> their wheelchairs. They weren't being used when a tractor-trailer slid
>> across a snowy
>> highway and slammed into the bus in January, killing Acton and two other
>> residents
>> of a special-needs center in western Ohio.
>> While federal law requires buses to be equipped with straps that lock down
>> wheelchairs,
>> as well as seat belts and shoulder harnesses to secure passengers
>> themselves, laws
>> in Ohio and most states don't require that people in wheelchairs on small
>> buses and
>> vans actually wear the seat belts - even though they're vulnerable to
>> injuries from
>> being tossed around in an accident.
>> "It just doesn't make any sense," said Acton's stepfather, Steve Hoessli.
>> "If they're
>> required to have restraints, why aren't they required to use them?"
>> A review by The Associated Press of seat belt laws in all states found
> just
>> five
>> - Arkansas, Georgia, Minnesota, Washington and Wisconsin - that require
> both
>> wheelchairs
>> and their users to be secured on paratransit buses that help people in
>> wheelchairs
>> to travel to work, doctor's offices and shopping centers.
>> Just a handful of other states require seat belt use for wheelchairs, with
>> some exceptions.
>> Oregon requires buckling up on commercial buses with less than 16 seats
> but
>> says
>> nothing about floor restraints. New Jersey limits its requirements to
>> passenger cars
>> and vans. North Carolina's law doesn't mention wheelchairs, but a state
>> police spokesman
>> said the rules cover nearly all vehicles.
>> It's not known how many people riding in wheelchairs are injured in
> vehicle
>> accidents
>> because little data are available.
>> University of Michigan researchers have found 52 auto crashes involving
>> wheelchairs
>> during the past three years. While not a comprehensive list, the accident
>> data show
>> that simply strapping a wheelchair to the floor of a bus or van wasn't
>> enough protection.
>> In most of the crashes the wheelchairs were secured. However, seat belts
>> weren't
>> always used or fastened the right way, and in some instances, people slid
>> from under
>> lap belts and were injured.
>> "By and large, many of these injuries are preventable if the restraints
> had
>> been
>> used, or used properly," said Gina Bertocci, a professor who works in
>> wheelchair
>> transportation safety at the University of Louisville.
>> A survey of wheelchair users who ride on public and private transportation
>> found
>> in 2007 that one in seven never used restraints, mainly because drivers
>> didn't take
>> time or know how to secure their wheelchairs and lap belts, according to
>> Easter Seals
>> Project Action, a program that helps the disabled with transportation.
>> "I've seen drivers who drop off the kids and they're in a hurry so they
>> don't take
>> time for each chair," said Margaret Griscti, of North Brunswick, N.J.,
> whose
>> son,
>> Stephen, broke his leg when his wheelchair tipped over in a vehicle.
>> That accident nearly 10 years ago and other crashes led to New Jersey's
> 2008
>> law,
>> which includes fines for violators.
>> Acton's relatives hope Ohio lawmakers now will take another look at their
>> state's
>> seat belt laws.
>> Crash investigators were surprised, too, that seat belts aren't required
> for
>> people
>> in wheelchairs. "I guess I thought there would be something," said State
>> Highway
>> Patrol Lt. Craig Cvetan.
>> There's no guarantee restraints would have saved Acton, a 28-year-old born
>> with spina
>> bifida, because he died of multiple injuries. The only thing keeing him in
>> his seat
>> was a strap designed to help him sit up, not protect him in an accident.
>> His stepfather pointed out that Acton was in the back of the bus and that
>> most of
>> the damage was up front. A man in a wheelchair across from Acton survived
>> even though
>> he, too, did not have lap and shoulder belts.
>> The bus driver also died, and six passengers were injured. Three of the
>> survivors
>> had on lap belts, according to accident reports.
>> Two employees on the bus told investigators that they usually attached the
>> lap and
>> shoulder belts for passengers in wheelchairs, but not always, and that
> they
>> didn't
>> know who secured Acton before the accident.
>> Administrators at the Creative Learning Workshop in Springfield, Ohio,
> which
>> operated
>> the bus, referred all questions to the company's attorney, Steve Freeze,
> who
>> did
>> not return messages seeking comment.
>> Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, the decision on whether to use
>> the safety
>> restraints on buses and paratransit vans is left up to the wheelchair
> users
>> and bus
>> operators. The law says passengers riding on buses in wheelchairs can be
>> told to
>> buckle up only if everyone else aboard must wear a seat belt.
>> The law sets out to treat people with disabilities the same as anyone
> else,
>> said
>> Lex Frieden, a former head of the National Council on Disability who
> helped
>> draft
>> the ADA in the mid-1980s.
>> "If we're not going to require the general public to wear seat belts on
>> buses, we
>> shouldn't require people with disabilities," he said. "Clearly, one could
>> argue we
>> need to look after the well-being of the people using these vehicles, but
>> that leads
>> us to a patronizing approach."
>> Some operators of small buses do require all passengers to be belted,
>> setting standards
>> that vary by city, according to interviews with transit managers. And some
>> transit
>> operators, especially those that are government-funded, say it's too risky
>> not to
>> make everyone buckle up.
>> "It's a liability issue," said Robert Hiett, who oversees a rural
>> paratransit service
>> in Griffin, Ga., that requires seat belts for all. "If we didn't properly
>> secure
>> them and there's an accident, we'd get in all kinds of problems. Defending
>> one lawsuit
>> could put us out of business."
>> Larry Schneider, a research professor at the University of Michigan's
>> Transportation
>> Research Institute, said he hopes legislation being considered in
>> Massachusetts will
>> become a model for other states. The proposal would require wheelchairs
> and
>> users
>> to be secured on all paratransit buses and vans and require training for
>> caregivers.
>> Paula Cieplik and her 35-year-old son, Kenny, of Middleborough, Mass.,
>> pushed for
>> the proposal after he was injured in a crash a year ago when the seat
> belts
>> holding
>> him in his wheelchair broke, throwing him out of his seat.
>> "The people who are most vulnerable aren't protected," she said. "It's
>> mind-boggling."
>> -
>>
>>
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