[Blind-rollers] seatbelts

Wed May 12 00:38:42 UTC 2010

Here's something yall may not have considered. I know of an incident
where a pen killed a person in an accident because it flew as a
projectile from the back seat of a car & went into a person's brain in
the front seat. If a pen can be such a lethal weapon during an
accident, think of how much more so a human being &/or their chair
could be. The point being that endangering oneself by not wearing
seatbelts is one's choice. Endangering others, especially as it
relates to public transit, should not be. &, BTW, I'd say that for
wheelchair & nonwheelchair passengers alike. If I were a paratransit
driver, the person would have 2 choices--put on their seatbelt or get
off the bus. &, do I think busses should have seat belts? Absolutely!
Do I think there should be seat belt laws? Absolutely again--& for all
passengers. Wheelchairs should be secured both for the protection of
their occupants & the protection of those around them. I'm a physician
by training & I could always tell w/accident patients which ones were
& which ones weren't wearing their seatbelts. & if I'm in the front
seat wearing my seatbelt, I don't want some1 flying thru the air from
a back seat & breaking my neck, which is a distinct possibility in a
rear-end collision. Obviously seatbelts can break & such--that's not
relevant here. The instances of that happening are pretty dog-gone
rare & beyond anyone's control. So, it's not just paternalism. It's
also protecting other people in the vehicle. &, imo, if some1 wants
not to wear their seatbelt, then I think they should have that right.
On the other hand, I think I have the right to be protected from the
possibility of them (or their mobility aid) becoming a projectile in
an accident, & therefore, their only other choice should simply be to
not be allowed to take the transportation in question. Sorry. That's
just how I feel. I've seen too many entirely needless deaths to feel
anything else.

On 5/11/10, Erica Cole <rebellion220 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Courtney,
> I really agree with you about assessing your own risk re: seatbelts.
> Urgh! *throws hands in air*  paternalism really bugs me.
> I don't travel in my chair because I have the mobility etc to sit on a car
> seat. I don't trust  the people I deal with on a daily basis to do a 4-point
> tie-down correctly, plus I don't like the feeling of going backwards or
> sideways.
> Just my two cents.
>
> Erica in the UK.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Courtney Stover
> Sent: 11 May 2010 20:12
> To: Blind wheelchair users list
> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] seatbelts
>
> Becky,
>
> You have some extremely valid points there.  People with disabilities can
> often allow their pride to overcome their good sense.  However, as your
> example illustrates, so can the able-bodied.  To me, having an equal playing
> field means having the basic right to be as idiotic as the able-bodied can
> be.  That doesn't mean we should be, however.  I admire you for assessing
> your risk and acting accordingly.
> I understand your sarcasm completely and don't take it personally in the
> slightest.  There are a number of radical elements in the movement, many of
> which I deal with on a regular basis; a healthy dose of sarcasm can pull us
> up short and make us reconsider our positions
> *smile*
> I'd like to address a couple of things that were brought to my attention
> offlist about this topic.  Several people said that careless/lazy/untrained
> drivers can often use the fact that wheelchair users refused the seatbelt as
> an excuse for not using proper procedures.  As a general question, how
> prevalent do you think this sort of action is? For those of you who support
> the law, is the negligence on the part of drivers most of the reason you do
> support it?
>
> This list has been rather quiet, so it's good to see some discussion.
> Courtney
>
> On 5/11/10, Becky Frankeberger <b.butterfly at comcast.net> wrote:
>> So the abled bodied gal sitting across the isle from me had the choice
>> before that van stopped suddenly to use her seatbelt.  She flew
>> further then I did.  She bloodied her knee.  I was shaken but fine as
>> I said I held on for dear life to my secured chair. I am to fragil to
>> not be careful.  But honestly that gal was bleeding needlessly.  Pride
>> not good sense ruled.  Not assessing the risk just stupid pride. Not
>> adult good sense, but childish pride.  Sitting on that floor she sure
>> did not look like a first class citizen as everyone babied her. I felt
>> as stupid as she looked as I forgot to ask the driver for a seat belt.
>> Now wasn't I being second class.  First class people go the extra mile
>> and not cross in the middle of the street like the second class
>> sighted do.  First class people are not fond of being projectiles, nor
>> sitting on floors of busses bleeding, like the second class sighted
>> do. Oh hey like leaving a baby in an nonsecured stroller.  That was
>> fun watching the baby fly down the isle of the buss.  Kind of a good
> lesson to me on my wheels, don't you think?
>>
>> Sorry feeling sarcastic.
>>
>> I absolutely agree with your point about paternalism. But not
>> balancing that with good sense is just second class.
>> I am not not saying you don't have good sense.  I am reacting to the
>> radicalism I have seen in some disabled, which to me is second class.
>> There is indeed a fine line.
>>
>> Becky and Jake
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Courtney Stover
>> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 3:14 PM
>> To: Blind wheelchair users list
>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] seatbelts
>>
>> Hi:
>>
>> I may very well be in the minority here, but I agree with the former
>> member of the disability council.  We, as disabled individuals, should
>> have the right to assess our risk and make a decision about restraints
>> based on that assessment.  Having non-disabled people assessing those
>> risks does lead to paternalism, and we deal with enough of that as it
>> is.  I can certainly understand the concerns of caregivers about
>> safety, but often, our caregivers themselves can exhibit too much
>> overprotectiveness.  And because we are already considered childlike
>> by so many of the powers that be, they tend to ascent to whatever
>> parents or others think best.
>> Courtney
>>
>> On 5/10/10, Becky Frankeberger <b.butterfly at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Do you all use seatbelts?  I sure do.  Do you make sure it is a four
>>> point tie down?  I sure do as someone forgot and I bounced backwards
>>> nearly tipping me backwards.  Do you do a lap and shoulder belt?  I
>>> do as I had
>> to
>>> hold on for dear life as the van stopped kind of suddenly. Or is
>>> equal treatment more important then safety.  If my able bodied
>>> counterparts do
>> not
>>> have to use seatbelts or four point tie downs why should I, according
>>> to
>> Lex
>>> in the article..
>>>
>>> What do you all think of "equal treatment.
>>>
>>> Becky and Jake
>>>
>>> Bus seat belt laws mostly exclude wheelchairs By JOHN SEEWER
>>> ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER TOLEDO, Ohio -- Lonnie Acton's lifeless body
>>> sat in a wheelchair fastened
>> to
>>> the
>>> floor of a mangled minibus. No shoulder or lap belt protected him.
>>> Those restraints, attached to the bus, are specially made to secure
>>> passengers in their wheelchairs. They weren't being used when a
>>> tractor-trailer slid across a snowy highway and slammed into the bus
>>> in January, killing Acton and two other residents of a special-needs
>>> center in western Ohio.
>>> While federal law requires buses to be equipped with straps that lock
>>> down wheelchairs, as well as seat belts and shoulder harnesses to
>>> secure passengers themselves, laws in Ohio and most states don't
>>> require that people in wheelchairs on small buses and vans actually
>>> wear the seat belts - even though they're vulnerable to injuries from
>>> being tossed around in an accident.
>>> "It just doesn't make any sense," said Acton's stepfather, Steve Hoessli.
>>> "If they're
>>> required to have restraints, why aren't they required to use them?"
>>> A review by The Associated Press of seat belt laws in all states
>>> found
>> just
>>> five
>>> - Arkansas, Georgia, Minnesota, Washington and Wisconsin - that
>>> require
>> both
>>> wheelchairs
>>> and their users to be secured on paratransit buses that help people
>>> in wheelchairs to travel to work, doctor's offices and shopping
>>> centers.
>>> Just a handful of other states require seat belt use for wheelchairs,
>>> with some exceptions.
>>> Oregon requires buckling up on commercial buses with less than 16
>>> seats
>> but
>>> says
>>> nothing about floor restraints. New Jersey limits its requirements to
>>> passenger cars and vans. North Carolina's law doesn't mention
>>> wheelchairs, but a state police spokesman said the rules cover nearly
>>> all vehicles.
>>> It's not known how many people riding in wheelchairs are injured in
>> vehicle
>>> accidents
>>> because little data are available.
>>> University of Michigan researchers have found 52 auto crashes
>>> involving wheelchairs during the past three years. While not a
>>> comprehensive list, the accident data show that simply strapping a
>>> wheelchair to the floor of a bus or van wasn't enough protection.
>>> In most of the crashes the wheelchairs were secured. However, seat
>>> belts weren't always used or fastened the right way, and in some
>>> instances, people slid from under lap belts and were injured.
>>> "By and large, many of these injuries are preventable if the
>>> restraints
>> had
>>> been
>>> used, or used properly," said Gina Bertocci, a professor who works in
>>> wheelchair transportation safety at the University of Louisville.
>>> A survey of wheelchair users who ride on public and private
>>> transportation found in 2007 that one in seven never used restraints,
>>> mainly because drivers didn't take time or know how to secure their
>>> wheelchairs and lap belts, according to Easter Seals Project Action,
>>> a program that helps the disabled with transportation.
>>> "I've seen drivers who drop off the kids and they're in a hurry so
>>> they don't take time for each chair," said Margaret Griscti, of North
>>> Brunswick, N.J.,
>> whose
>>> son,
>>> Stephen, broke his leg when his wheelchair tipped over in a vehicle.
>>> That accident nearly 10 years ago and other crashes led to New
>>> Jersey's
>> 2008
>>> law,
>>> which includes fines for violators.
>>> Acton's relatives hope Ohio lawmakers now will take another look at
>>> their state's seat belt laws.
>>> Crash investigators were surprised, too, that seat belts aren't
>>> required
>> for
>>> people
>>> in wheelchairs. "I guess I thought there would be something," said
>>> State Highway Patrol Lt. Craig Cvetan.
>>> There's no guarantee restraints would have saved Acton, a 28-year-old
>>> born with spina bifida, because he died of multiple injuries. The
>>> only thing keeing him in his seat was a strap designed to help him
>>> sit up, not protect him in an accident.
>>> His stepfather pointed out that Acton was in the back of the bus and
>>> that most of the damage was up front. A man in a wheelchair across
>>> from Acton survived even though he, too, did not have lap and
>>> shoulder belts.
>>> The bus driver also died, and six passengers were injured. Three of
>>> the survivors had on lap belts, according to accident reports.
>>> Two employees on the bus told investigators that they usually
>>> attached the lap and shoulder belts for passengers in wheelchairs,
>>> but not always, and that
>> they
>>> didn't
>>> know who secured Acton before the accident.
>>> Administrators at the Creative Learning Workshop in Springfield,
>>> Ohio,
>> which
>>> operated
>>> the bus, referred all questions to the company's attorney, Steve
>>> Freeze,
>> who
>>> did
>>> not return messages seeking comment.
>>> Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, the decision on whether to
>>> use the safety restraints on buses and paratransit vans is left up to
>>> the wheelchair
>> users
>>> and bus
>>> operators. The law says passengers riding on buses in wheelchairs can
>>> be told to buckle up only if everyone else aboard must wear a seat
>>> belt.
>>> The law sets out to treat people with disabilities the same as anyone
>> else,
>>> said
>>> Lex Frieden, a former head of the National Council on Disability who
>> helped
>>> draft
>>> the ADA in the mid-1980s.
>>> "If we're not going to require the general public to wear seat belts
>>> on buses, we shouldn't require people with disabilities," he said.
>>> "Clearly, one could argue we need to look after the well-being of the
>>> people using these vehicles, but that leads us to a patronizing
>>> approach."
>>> Some operators of small buses do require all passengers to be belted,
>>> setting standards that vary by city, according to interviews with
>>> transit managers. And some transit operators, especially those that
>>> are government-funded, say it's too risky not to make everyone buckle
>>> up.
>>> "It's a liability issue," said Robert Hiett, who oversees a rural
>>> paratransit service in Griffin, Ga., that requires seat belts for
>>> all. "If we didn't properly secure them and there's an accident, we'd
>>> get in all kinds of problems. Defending one lawsuit could put us out
>>> of business."
>>> Larry Schneider, a research professor at the University of Michigan's
>>> Transportation Research Institute, said he hopes legislation being
>>> considered in Massachusetts will become a model for other states. The
>>> proposal would require wheelchairs
>> and
>>> users
>>> to be secured on all paratransit buses and vans and require training
>>> for caregivers.
>>> Paula Cieplik and her 35-year-old son, Kenny, of Middleborough,
>>> Mass., pushed for the proposal after he was injured in a crash a year
>>> ago when the seat
>> belts
>>> holding
>>> him in his wheelchair broke, throwing him out of his seat.
>>> "The people who are most vulnerable aren't protected," she said.
>>> "It's mind-boggling."
>>> -
>>>
>>>
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