[blindkid] Braille reading speed-Good News and Bad News

Mon Mar 9 23:22:01 UTC 2009

There are such standards for print broken down by grade level & some even 
distinguish between oral & silent reading rates.
Many school districts, such as ours, have their own district benchmarks.
The problem multi-fold, in that kids/families are not encouraged to start 
braille immersion until the kids hit school (if even then - can you imagine 
what would happen to print reading rates if sighted kids were not exposed to 
print until elementary school?) & to many (perhaps even most) TVI educators 
don't believe that braille can be read at the same speed as print - so with 
lower expectations & delayed introduction of braille, this ends up being a 
self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
Braille Reading Rate Fluency is rarely addressed at TVI conferences.
It would be fun & potentially fruitful to pull together a panel of national 
experts & put them in a room with some of our kids & adults who do in fact 
read fluently to see if real life proof might change their perceptions of 
what is possible.
Eric V

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Debra Baxley" <debrabaxley at bellsouth.net>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 15:12
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Braille reading speed-Good News and Bad News

> Isn't the print-reading standard so many words per minute per grade level?
> I think that it is sixty words per minute per grade level.
>
> Debra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:22 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Braille reading speed-Good News and Bad News
>
> Dear Craige,
> The bad news is that in a sense Mike has a strong point. It has been and
> will be difficult to get a study based on true scientific based 
> methodology
> and standards. That does not mean some of us are not going to try and get
> something, but it neither means that, that something will be something in
> the end that is a true measure or something we want as a standard or 
> believe
> is reasonable as a standard for all.
>
> Do we get one standard for the totally blind child who has had Braille 
> since
> the crib, another for the totally blind child who had no exposure until
> school and then got few books, another few standards for the spectrum of 
> low
> vision and dual readers, another for the one handed, another for those 
> with
> poor tactile sensitivity, and then those with developmental delays, and 
> then
> those who have limited finger availability or function on either hand??? 
> And
> then within those also, a standard according to how much Braille they
> actually got and how much vision or duality they have--with a sort of
> cross-referencing standard? And what about the effect of low expectations
> from teachers and parents--how might that be measured as affecting ability
> to meet the standards or ability in a test subject person's measured 
> speed?
> These are the problems of which Mike speaks. On the other hand, I do think
> we can still do something.
>
> The good news is that "their", or the established professional circles, 
> have
> NO true scientific based research EITHER. So, there is really NO REASON 
> NOT
> to think that any child reading Braille could not meet the same standards 
> as
> set forth for sighted students--with reasonable allowance for that just 
> like
> in the sighted population there are some slower readers, and if the case 
> of
> some other disability or loss of hand enters in--some reasonable thinking 
> in
> how it might affect. The good news is that, we do have many Braille 
> readers
> who meet or exceed sighted standards, and they can be pointed out and
> brought into meetings. When they are brought into meetings and read live 
> and
> in person it is very effective in raising expectations.
>
> And the good news is that we do have a study, that is as good or better 
> than
> any of "theirs" by Dr. Ruby Ryles that shows the capabilities, when good
> instruction and early reading is practiced (just like for the sighted), 
> that
> Braille readers can indeed be competitive with print readers. Her study 
> also
> shows a link between fluency in Braille and employment outcomes. It is
> SOMETHING to bring to the table and it has been a strong and world over
> recognized something.
>
> So the yardstick you should use Craige is the yardstick in her class, and 
> it
> is up to us as parents to demand (not merely ask) that, bring the evidence
> live, on video and on paper, to the IEP table, and REQUIRE THEM to PROVE
> their low expectations through SCIENTIFIC DATA (of which they have truly
> none).
>
> The reading charts that have been circulated are not based on scientific
> data, are from like the 70's, were done narrowly and even those who
> historically have used the "highest" standard chart(Texas School for the
> Blind) in their assessment kit have now at our urging reconsidered, 
> admitted
> to us (perhaps mostly privately so far, but have nonetheless admitted and 
> I
> have it in writing) IT IS/HAS NOT been TRULY SCIENTIFICALLY BASED, and say
> oh anyway IT HAS ALWAYS been ONLY a GUIDELINE and SHOULD NOT be used to 
> keep
> low rates as acceptable (this part they will tell to teachers or parents 
> who
> write or call and ASK). TSBVI showed genuine interest in helping to
> alleviate the "misunderstanding" in the profession that the chart they 
> have
> put out is NOT a TRUE STANDARD, and they also are trying to amend to a
> higher standard (but in a way can't and have admitted problems and an
> impossibility in publishing it because it also IS NOT scientifically
> RESEARCH Based).
>
> So there you have the good news and the bad for today. The strongest thing 
> I
> can tell you Cragie is to do ALL you can imagine to do to NOT accept the 
> low
> expectations which may come from your child's teachers and to get them
> uncovered AS low expectations to the rest of the team. This has been done,
> is being done, and will need to be done yet for sometime. Parent Power is 
> a
> great power. YOU hold them, you make them, accountable.
>
>
>
> Carrie Gilmer, President
> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
> Home Phone: 763-784-8590
> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
> www.nfb.org/nopbc
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Craige Snader
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:33 AM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Braille reading speed
>
> The problem I see with not having reasonable expectation values is that 
> our
> VI can get by with no accountability for speed of reading and 
> comprehension.
> They can tell you your kid is doing great and reading 10 words per minute!
>
> So I think we would benefit of some sort of yardstick.
>
> Craige
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:06 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Braille reading speed
>
> Ultimately, I see no way for any study on braille reading speed to be
> truly statistically valid -- too many problems with controls and not
> enough people for a representative sample.
>
> However, anecdotally, I suspect that anyone from our three NFB training
> centers could show you plenty of people who can read as fast as they can
> speak and quite a number who can read a good deal faster!
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Debby B" <bwbddl at yahoo.com>
> To: "Multiple recipients of NFBnet BlindKid Mailing List"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:32 AM
> Subject: [blindkid] Braille reading speed
>
>
> Do we have a source or study on Braille reading speeds? That question
> has been posed on another group I'm on and I would like to pass on that
> info. And have it for Winona's school use as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Debby
> bwbddl at yahoo.com
> www.nfbflorida.org/parents
>
> Please support Braille literacy and programs for our youth by sponsoring
> me in
> the Motor City March for Independence! Better yet, join the team of the
> FL Parents of Blind Children!
> http://www.marchforindependence.org/goto/debbyb
>
>
>
>
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