[blindkid] Braille reading speed-Good News and Bad News

Tue Mar 10 02:24:34 UTC 2009

I would also like to see the following test applied to both children and 
adults. The only problem is that no one could afford it.

WE all hear that adults learning braille cannot be expected to reach the 
same reading speeds as should be expected of blind children who start 
out reading it early. In a sense, this seems fair in that children who 
read braile from the get-go and become adults presumably have had more 
time to practice than are those adults newly come to braille. However, I 
do not believe that this has truly been put to the test.

I would like to set up a situation wherein blind adults starting from 
scratch would be guaranteed a winning Powerball ticket if they can read 
fluently at three hundred wpm after three months of braille instruction. 
*Then* we could see whether or not our expectations of lowered reading 
rates were truly valid or not. For my part, I can tell you that I'd be 
reading three hundred wpm or better.

Something on that same order might be tried for kids -- say ten thousand 
bucks if after a year they are reading three hundred wpm. (grin)

But none of us can afford to set up that test.

Yee haw!

Mike Freeman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DrV" <icdx at earthlink.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Braille reading speed-Good News and Bad News

There are such standards for print broken down by grade level & some 
even
distinguish between oral & silent reading rates.
Many school districts, such as ours, have their own district benchmarks.
The problem multi-fold, in that kids/families are not encouraged to 
start
braille immersion until the kids hit school (if even then - can you 
imagine
what would happen to print reading rates if sighted kids were not 
exposed to
print until elementary school?) & to many (perhaps even most) TVI 
educators
don't believe that braille can be read at the same speed as print - so 
with
lower expectations & delayed introduction of braille, this ends up being 
a
self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
Braille Reading Rate Fluency is rarely addressed at TVI conferences.
It would be fun & potentially fruitful to pull together a panel of 
national
experts & put them in a room with some of our kids & adults who do in 
fact
read fluently to see if real life proof might change their perceptions 
of
what is possible.
Eric V

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Debra Baxley" <debrabaxley at bellsouth.net>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 15:12
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Braille reading speed-Good News and Bad News

> Isn't the print-reading standard so many words per minute per grade 
> level?
> I think that it is sixty words per minute per grade level.
>
> Debra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:22 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Braille reading speed-Good News and Bad News
>
> Dear Craige,
> The bad news is that in a sense Mike has a strong point. It has been 
> and
> will be difficult to get a study based on true scientific based
> methodology
> and standards. That does not mean some of us are not going to try and 
> get
> something, but it neither means that, that something will be something 
> in
> the end that is a true measure or something we want as a standard or
> believe
> is reasonable as a standard for all.
>
> Do we get one standard for the totally blind child who has had Braille
> since
> the crib, another for the totally blind child who had no exposure 
> until
> school and then got few books, another few standards for the spectrum 
> of
> low
> vision and dual readers, another for the one handed, another for those
> with
> poor tactile sensitivity, and then those with developmental delays, 
> and
> then
> those who have limited finger availability or function on either 
> hand???
> And
> then within those also, a standard according to how much Braille they
> actually got and how much vision or duality they have--with a sort of
> cross-referencing standard? And what about the effect of low 
> expectations
> from teachers and parents--how might that be measured as affecting 
> ability
> to meet the standards or ability in a test subject person's measured
> speed?
> These are the problems of which Mike speaks. On the other hand, I do 
> think
> we can still do something.
>
> The good news is that "their", or the established professional 
> circles,
> have
> NO true scientific based research EITHER. So, there is really NO 
> REASON
> NOT
> to think that any child reading Braille could not meet the same 
> standards
> as
> set forth for sighted students--with reasonable allowance for that 
> just
> like
> in the sighted population there are some slower readers, and if the 
> case
> of
> some other disability or loss of hand enters in--some reasonable 
> thinking
> in
> how it might affect. The good news is that, we do have many Braille
> readers
> who meet or exceed sighted standards, and they can be pointed out and
> brought into meetings. When they are brought into meetings and read 
> live
> and
> in person it is very effective in raising expectations.
>
> And the good news is that we do have a study, that is as good or 
> better
> than
> any of "theirs" by Dr. Ruby Ryles that shows the capabilities, when 
> good
> instruction and early reading is practiced (just like for the 
> sighted),
> that
> Braille readers can indeed be competitive with print readers. Her 
> study
> also
> shows a link between fluency in Braille and employment outcomes. It is
> SOMETHING to bring to the table and it has been a strong and world 
> over
> recognized something.
>
> So the yardstick you should use Craige is the yardstick in her class, 
> and
> it
> is up to us as parents to demand (not merely ask) that, bring the 
> evidence
> live, on video and on paper, to the IEP table, and REQUIRE THEM to 
> PROVE
> their low expectations through SCIENTIFIC DATA (of which they have 
> truly
> none).
>
> The reading charts that have been circulated are not based on 
> scientific
> data, are from like the 70's, were done narrowly and even those who
> historically have used the "highest" standard chart(Texas School for 
> the
> Blind) in their assessment kit have now at our urging reconsidered,
> admitted
> to us (perhaps mostly privately so far, but have nonetheless admitted 
> and
> I
> have it in writing) IT IS/HAS NOT been TRULY SCIENTIFICALLY BASED, and 
> say
> oh anyway IT HAS ALWAYS been ONLY a GUIDELINE and SHOULD NOT be used 
> to
> keep
> low rates as acceptable (this part they will tell to teachers or 
> parents
> who
> write or call and ASK). TSBVI showed genuine interest in helping to
> alleviate the "misunderstanding" in the profession that the chart they
> have
> put out is NOT a TRUE STANDARD, and they also are trying to amend to a
> higher standard (but in a way can't and have admitted problems and an
> impossibility in publishing it because it also IS NOT scientifically
> RESEARCH Based).
>
> So there you have the good news and the bad for today. The strongest 
> thing
> I
> can tell you Cragie is to do ALL you can imagine to do to NOT accept 
> the
> low
> expectations which may come from your child's teachers and to get them
> uncovered AS low expectations to the rest of the team. This has been 
> done,
> is being done, and will need to be done yet for sometime. Parent Power 
> is
> a
> great power. YOU hold them, you make them, accountable.
>
>
>
> Carrie Gilmer, President
> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
> Home Phone: 763-784-8590
> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
> www.nfb.org/nopbc
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Craige Snader
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:33 AM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Braille reading speed
>
> The problem I see with not having reasonable expectation values is 
> that
> our
> VI can get by with no accountability for speed of reading and
> comprehension.
> They can tell you your kid is doing great and reading 10 words per 
> minute!
>
> So I think we would benefit of some sort of yardstick.
>
> Craige
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:06 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Braille reading speed
>
> Ultimately, I see no way for any study on braille reading speed to be
> truly statistically valid -- too many problems with controls and not
> enough people for a representative sample.
>
> However, anecdotally, I suspect that anyone from our three NFB 
> training
> centers could show you plenty of people who can read as fast as they 
> can
> speak and quite a number who can read a good deal faster!
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Debby B" <bwbddl at yahoo.com>
> To: "Multiple recipients of NFBnet BlindKid Mailing List"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:32 AM
> Subject: [blindkid] Braille reading speed
>
>
> Do we have a source or study on Braille reading speeds? That question
> has been posed on another group I'm on and I would like to pass on 
> that
> info. And have it for Winona's school use as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Debby
> bwbddl at yahoo.com
> www.nfbflorida.org/parents
>
> Please support Braille literacy and programs for our youth by 
> sponsoring
> me in
> the Motor City March for Independence! Better yet, join the team of 
> the
> FL Parents of Blind Children!
> http://www.marchforindependence.org/goto/debbyb
>
>
>
>
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