[blindkid] Advice needed about school incident

Barbara Hammel poetlori8 at msn.com
Thu Nov 5 18:35:57 UTC 2009


Oh, on the other hand, this reminds me of a funny thing that happened when I 
used to work with one-year-olds at a day-care center.
I was sitting in the wide space that divided two of the rooms so the 
children would stay in our room when a wise little boy closed his eyes and 
tried to scamper past.  The other teacher and I had a good laugh.  He 
figured that if he couldn't see me, I couldn't see him.  Very few of the 
children I had really figured out that I couldn't see.
Barbara

The Hawkeyes are 9 and 0!  Let's go Iowa Hawkeyes!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway at gopbc.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:59 AM
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Advice needed about school incident

> Carol,
>
> Your comments are reassuring, thanks. Even as we try and build the 
> knowledge base that will hopefully allow Kendra to develop a more 
> reasonable understanding of a vision concept I am forever finding  "holes" 
> in what I think we have built.
>
> When my (sighted) teenaged daughter was quite young, I remember once 
> telling her not to roll her eyes at me in a conversation. She was 
> completely taken aback that I had "caught" her doing this, as she was  on 
> the other end of the telephone and clearly WELL out of sight. (What  a 
> glorious moment that was BTW as she then became CERTAIN that her Dad 
> ALWAYS knew what she was doing, LOL...)
>
> I get the impression that our blind children all too often get that  same 
> sort of impression in daily life from a great many sources-- "How  do all 
> these people know what I am doing when I cannot tell what THEY  are 
> doing-- how exactly does this vision thing work?!!" I don't think  that 
> Kendra thinks it is inferior to do things without sight, but she  wants to 
> understand the idea of vision and I sometimes feel like I  give sub-par 
> information when I try and explain it.
>
> As with so many kids, our younger two children have generally reserved 
> locations in our car. Kendra sits right behind me as I drive,  primarily 
> so I can keep by best watch on her little brother-- (a  typical boy in 
> most every sense of that description, always in motion  and often on the 
> edge of mischief when he's in the car). (My son rides  behind the front 
> passenger seat). The other day, Kendra was asking me  to look at something 
> and as she was getting a little bit agitated, I  realized that something 
> was up. I looked behind me a little when I was  stopped at a light and 
> realized that she was shaking something towards  me and getting mad that I 
> didn't see what she was "showing me". So the  light bulb goes on for me, 
> and I start trying to explain that unlike  sound or smell, sight is just 
> in front of a sighted person's eyes and  that we have to turn our head to 
> see. Then I try to explain that there  is so much that I have to watch in 
> FRONT of me as I drive that I can  only look at her when we are stopped 
> somewhere.
>
> Then she wants to know WHY that is-- that eyes only see in one  direction. 
> Ugh! "Well, that's just they way it is--" It is a poor  explanation, but I 
> really have no decent answer that doesn't involve a  discussion of light 
> waves and collection and focus-- somewhat beyond  the scope of this 
> discussion, I'm thinking, ESPECIALLY while I am  still driving in heavy 
> traffic.
>
> Another really interesting thing to try and explain is solid but 
> transparent objects. If I can see through a closed window, why can't I 
> see though a wall? And yet at times, say with a crack in a wall or  more 
> commonly between fence planks, one CAN seemingly see through a  "solid" 
> thing", or OVER something solid that is too high to feel the  top of...
>
> If sound is stopped by closing a window why is it that light is not? I 
> want to explain all I can about these things, but it just takes a long 
> time to really begin to construct a solid base of understanding in  these 
> matters. Still, I know we'll get there.
>
> Anyhow, thanks for the feedback. It all helps to build MY knowledge  base!
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Carol Castellano wrote:
>
>> I think the reason it seems so hard or so unclear is that the  offense 
>> may indeed have involved the fact that Kendra is blind and  we parents 
>> have very good reasons to shield our kids from difficult  and complex 
>> issues when they are young.
>>
>> A similar thing happened to Serena when she was in Girl Scouts--she  was 
>> probably in 3rd grade, maybe 8 or 9 at the time.  There was one  mean 
>> girl--the Scout leader's daughter, of course!--who one night  when we 
>> were all out at a pizzeria after an activity, pretended to  pour her soda 
>> on Serena's head.  I was alerted by another scout and  turned to see it 
>> happening.   It seemed to me the other girls were  sort of squirming 
>> embarassedly and laughing a little.  Serena, of  course, didn't have a 
>> clue of what was funny.
>>
>> I think I called out to the offender, "that's not nice to do" and  she of 
>> course stopped.  Oh, did I mention her mom the troop leader  was 
>> oblivious?
>>
>> That evening Serena and I told Serena what the girl had done.  We  talked 
>> about why a person might do such a thing and why trying to  make fun at 
>> the expense of others was wrong.  It certainly would  have been more 
>> difficult to discuss when Serena was younger, like  Kendra is now, and 
>> understood less.
>>
>> We always kept our eyes on the blind adults we knew who were skilled  and 
>> knowledgeable--we knew that there was a way to be that as a  blind 
>> person, so we never felt, and of course did not want Serena to  feel, 
>> that she would always be vulnerable to being taken advantage  of because 
>> she was blind.  In fact, so far in Serena's life, it  seems as if she 
>> brings out the best in people!
>>
>> Regarding what vision is, we got a lot of tips from Gary Wunder who 
>> speaks poignantly about his own journey to understanding.  Serena is 
>> also completely blind without light perception.  I think we began  with 
>> something like this:  Serena, you know how your cane goes out  in front 
>> of you and out to the sides and you can see what's there?   Well, 
>> eyesight is something like that, but it can go much farther,  even miles. 
>> As time went by, we added details so that she would get  a full 
>> understanding.  We always spoke (still do) about it matter-of- 
>> factly--for whatever the action we were trying to explain, we'd say, 
>> This is the way a grown up sighted person would accomplish this  task; 
>> this is the way a grown up blind person would do it, without  making any 
>> deal out of whether the person accomplished the task with  eyes or 
>> fingers or ears.
>>
>> Carol
>>
>> At 12:41 AM 11/5/2009, you wrote:
>>> For any who don't know the connection I am Kendra's dad (and
>>> Stephanie's husband). Kendra is seven, and in the first grade. This  is
>>> her first year in her new school. Overall, things have been going
>>> really well both at this school as well as her last. Her previous
>>> school went through kindergarten only and this is the school to which
>>> most of her classmates from her last school typically matriculate.
>>>
>>> Kendra is the only blind child in the school, and to my knowledge the
>>> only blind child that either her regular ed or special ed teachers
>>> (this is a co-taught classroom) have ever had. Because so many things
>>> are new to this situation and especially to both of these teachers,
>>> many things are being learned and done "on-the-fly" the first time
>>> they come up. We do have an outstanding and very experienced TVI but
>>> she was not involved in this situation when it happened. Had she been
>>> there, I suspect none of this discussion would ever have come up; it
>>> would have been solved on the spot.
>>>
>>> On top of everything else, Kendra's regular ed teacher was out sick
>>> the day this happened. My suspicion is that what happened caught the
>>> teacher who first learned of this so off-guard that she was virtually
>>> stupefied. No matter if it is typical or not for kids her age and
>>> younger, we've generally only had problems with kids arguing over who
>>> gets to walk with Kendra (fighting to HAVE a turn) when they pair off
>>> in twos or trying to be the one who hands Kendra her cane as they  head
>>> to the door. (Followed by an adult explaining how nice it is that  they
>>> want to help but that she knows where her cane is and she can [and
>>> will] get that herself.) There are lots of IEP kids at this school  (as
>>> with her previous school-- WAY more than average) so most of these
>>> kids are quite used to dealing with diversity and should "know
>>> better"...
>>>
>>> This is sort of a classic example of wanting to examine what happened
>>> in the context of what SHOULD have happened, but that is in the past.
>>> We needed to figure out the value of telling her that it did happen
>>> which after some thought and discussion is what we plan to do at this
>>> point; she needs to know and she should have learned right when it
>>> happened. Now that this has come up, we can also have a strategy for
>>> the future and be on the same page with the teachers at school. Try  as
>>> one may, it is hard to have a plan for everything BEFORE it  happens...
>>>
>>> I think the real problem is that once the ideal response didn't  happen
>>> as it should have, now it is much harder to know the exact proper
>>> approach; we are no longer "in the heat of battle". Kendra is really
>>> only just learning to try to understand what it means that others can
>>> "see", so the notion that others can see and use this magical power  to
>>> steal from her is a concept that I was not really wanting to try and
>>> teach just yet, but we have to adjust the plan as the game is  played...
>>>
>>> Having no light perception at all, I think that the entire notion of
>>> sight is still a bit baffling to Kendra. We're not trying to keep the
>>> concept of sight a secret obviously, but we're still very much trying
>>> to help the concept of "vision" make some reasonable sense to her. In
>>> fact, I wonder if there are any no-light-perception-since-birth  people
>>> on this listserv who can offer any suggestions to sighted adults
>>> trying to convey the concept of vision to a child who has never had
>>> any. Not what vision is for or what it does so much, as what it "is".
>>> I really can't understand how one would do that well for any
>>> completely absent sense. Any thoughts? What has worked for other
>>> parents who's kids have been totally blind since birth?
>>>
>>> I can sort of imagine telling someone with really low vision, or even
>>> just light perception that some people can get a lot more information
>>> than a general shape (or just light and dark etc.) but where do you
>>> start with the explanation, again, given the experience of even a  very
>>> bright seven year old in a way that is useful?
>>>
>>> When it comes down to it, I guess the actual incident is not that big
>>> of a deal-- that one child took part of another's lunch. And if you
>>> were one typical kid grabbing another sighted kid's food, you would  no
>>> doubt want to do that when that kid wasn't looking as well, so I
>>> cannot really put my finger on just how or why this seems so  terrible,
>>> yet it still does... I mean on the one hand, we want to say everyone
>>> is the same and equal, but on the other, there is a weakness here  (for
>>> lack of a better term) and somehow, right or wrong, it does seem to  be
>>> a good deal more inappropriate (at least to me) to grab a blind kid's
>>> food than it does to sneak it from a sighted kid when he or she is  not
>>> looking.
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 4, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Susan Harper wrote:
>>>
>>>> It happened at school.  The school should be responsible for talking
>>>> with
>>>> her and then the students involved should tell her what they did and
>>>> apologize, if and only if  you think your daughter is mature enough
>>>> to deal
>>>> with this.  You may want to be the one to prep your daughter ahead
>>>> of time
>>>> and be with her at school as a support.  School needs to be
>>>> responsible for
>>>> school.  I don't know the age of your daughter, so this is my best
>>>> guess
>>>> from the gut advice.  Let us know how it goes.
>>>> Blessings
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Kieszak, Stephanie (CDC/CCEHIP/  NCEH) 
>>>> <
>>>> sek7 at cdc.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I received this e-mail from my daughter's teacher this morning and
>>>>> don't
>>>>> really know how to respond. Any suggestions? My gut reaction is  that
>>>>> telling her now doesn't really serve a purpose. Kendra is in first
>>>>> grade.
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> Ms. Kieszak,
>>>>>
>>>>> Upon my return to school this week, I was informed that on Monday
>>>>> (11/2),
>>>>> two students from our class took some of Kendra's food during lunch
>>>>> without her knowing. The two students received consequences for  their
>>>>> behavior on the day of the incident and further consequences when I
>>>>> returned. Mrs. XX, our Assistant Principal, also spoke with them. I
>>>>> wanted to let you know about the situation and to ask for your
>>>>> advice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you think we should tell Kendra what happened? If so, what do  you
>>>>> think
>>>>> is a good approach to letting her know and by whom (i.e. one of us
>>>>> here
>>>>> at
>>>>> school or at home)?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Mrs. YY
>>>>>
>>>>>
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