[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
Albert J Rizzi
albert at myblindspot.org
Thu Jan 21 17:59:05 UTC 2010
Nothing to add to that accept a loud speaker!
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
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PH: 917-553-0347
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-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Richard Holloway
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:11 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
The thing is, as a society we really don't do that very well, do we?--
We don't set a single age for much of anything. Many states let you
drive at 16. Some at 15. One state apparently extends driving age down
to 13 in some cases (for farm equipment) and 14 is possible in at
least one other state-- this apparently alone and on public roads, at
least in some circumstances. Worldwide, minimum driving ages range
from at least 14 on public roads up to 18, perhaps older. I understand
that drinking ages (for drinking in public) range worldwide from age
15 to age 25 and ages 16 to 21 are found in a great many different
places. There are so many arbitrary cutoffs like that-- do we need
another one?
I keep hearing how many hours and how much effort it takes to train a
guide dog. I believe that must be true; no argument here. So, if
people can invest that much effort in training a guide dog, can't they
choose to employ a process whereby they spend reasonable amount of
time in determining who should get these dogs as opposed to relying on
an arbitrary cutoff age to eliminate some people?
I'm not trying to compel any guide dog school to give dogs to young
kids or to insist that there are actually 12-year-olds who are even
ready-- I don't know. I am simply intrigued by the notion that a
school was (presumably) willing to look at younger kids and see if any
of them might be candidates for guide dog ownership. Wasn't that what
we were first discussing? I still don't see anything wrong with that.
Who am I to protest and say to them, "how dare you try and help that
child with a guide dog-- how inappropriate of you!!!"?
I just don't think it is about age, it is about readiness. If that
school wants to explore working with the right children who are
somewhat younger than the traditional cutoff, I don't see the harm in
looking into it. I have pondered this a good deal and I agree that
there are probably very few 12-year-olds who would be ready, but by 14
or 15, it seems less outrageous of an idea.
Society seems to do this strange thing on both ends of the scale--
once we get old enough, people again begin to assume that due to age
we will not be able to be responsible for ourselves or to care for
ourselves. Some of us will not, but some of us will. I hope I am one
of the lucky ones who can get by without help but how frustrating to
know that if I am, there will likely be some who would take away my
freedom to make certain choices because they fear I MIGHT be (or
become) incompetent due to age, but that too is another discussion.
Richard
On Jan 21, 2010, at 12:08 AM, Carol Castellano wrote:
> I dunno. Maybe it's like driving. We (society) have decided on an
> age before which we don't think kids are mature enough. There may
> be a 12 year old or two who would be able to handle all the
> responsibilities, but we don't extend the option down that far.
> Carol
>
> At 11:18 AM 1/20/2010, you wrote:
>> Carol,
>>
>> Having no direct knowledge of the process by which guide dog
>> ownership
>> and placement is determined, I would assume that your main concerns
>> would (or should) all be addressed in the process of applying to
>> get a
>> guide dog for people of ANY age, is it not?
>>
>> It seems like guide dogs are not the primary choice of most blind
>> adults and I would suspect they are appropriate for even a smaller
>> percentage of young people, but I cannot see the harm in additional
>> study to determine if this is a good and helpful option for some
>> (however few) kids under 16.
>>
>> To be sure, your concerns are well received and I agree with them in
>> general, but again, I am very hesitant to decide something is a bad
>> idea for everyone when (as far as I know) this has really never been
>> tried. I guess what I'm driving at the most is I think this would be
>> best determined by many factors apart from age, per se. One person
>> might be ready at 12 or 15, Another, not until his or her mid-20's
>> (if
>> ever).
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Carol Castellano wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I'll chime in with a different view. My experience observing
>>> young guide dog users leads me to believe that even at 16 or 17, it
>>> is the RARE young person who has the required all-around ability to
>>> use a guide dog. I have no statistics for this; my opinion is based
>>> only on observations...over the past 20 years or so.
>>>
>>> Another concern I would have for allowing a 12-year-old to use a dog
>>> is that in order to be a good traveler with a dog, the blind person
>>> needs to be a good traveler in general. A person would need a lot
>>> of experience in all aspects of travel in order to be successful
>>> with a dog. For example, much information needs to be kept in mind
>>> when traveling without the direct contact with landmarks, etc., that
>>> cane travel provides. How many 12-year-olds have such experience?
>>> Have they traveled much independently at that point?
>>>
>>> Last but not least, many people out there--some parents included--
>>> believe that a guide dog would protect their child and take him/her
>>> places safely. They see dog use as a panacea for what they perceive
>>> as the travel difficulties and safety issues facing their blind
>>> child. This is no basis for getting a guide dog!
>>>
>>> So, all in all, my feeling would be against this idea.
>>>
>>> Carol
>>>
>>> Carol Castellano, President
>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
>>> 973-377-0976
>>> carol_castellano at verizon.net
>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc
>>>
>>> At 10:09 AM 1/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>> Here here! Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or
>>>> 13 years
>>>> has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't
>>>> it our
>>>> responsibility to give all children those tools they need based
>>>> upon their
>>>> individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives.
>>>> I do not
>>>> see the reason for nor the reluctance to allow any teenager an
>>>> opportunity
>>>> to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide
>>>> dog.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>> who is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid- bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> ] On
>>>> Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>> To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>>>
>>>> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care
>>>> for a guide
>>>> dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For
>>>> example, 4-H
>>>> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young
>>>> ages. They
>>>> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my
>>>> children,
>>>> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she
>>>> was 9
>>>> years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog,
>>>> including
>>>> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that
>>>> dog.
>>>> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets
>>>> office.
>>>> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a
>>>> guide dog,
>>>> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent
>>>> as early
>>>> as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware
>>>> of
>>>> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I
>>>> think
>>>> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
>>>> age.
>>>>
>>>> Doreen
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
>>>> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind
>>>> children)"
>>>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of
>>>> blind
>>>> children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear
>>>> that a
>>>> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide
>>>> Dogs
>>>> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve
>>>> year olds.
>>>> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than
>>>> sixteen or
>>>> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am
>>>> happy to
>>>> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve
>>>> year olds
>>>> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am
>>>> dreading
>>>> the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who
>>>> are, at
>>>> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
>>>> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and
>>>> actually need a
>>>> guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
>>>> researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them
>>>> actually
>>>> submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be
>>>> before
>>>> actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you
>>>> would have
>>>> the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog
>>>> guide, if
>>>> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a
>>>> guide dog,
>>>> at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain
>>>> yourself
>>>> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing
>>>> things that
>>>> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen,
>>>> acknowledging
>>>> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you,
>>>> as their
>>>> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the
>>>> house-hold?
>>>> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply
>>>> for a guide
>>>> dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention.
>>>> Just me
>>>> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start
>>>> researching guide
>>>> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
>>>> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen,
>>>> and that
>>>> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the
>>>> demands of a
>>>> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally
>>>> able to
>>>> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys,
>>>> effective
>>>> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the
>>>> social
>>>> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a
>>>> need, not
>>>> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or
>>>> complex and
>>>> demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your
>>>> thoughts.
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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